For last 18 months or so I have been running XP64 and had no issues with viruses what so ever - ran without any anti-virus the whole time. The only problem was my printer has no XP64 bit drivers. So I pulled 4 gigs of ram in reinstalled XP32 bit AND all the updates and anti spyware, anti virus and within 2 months I am infected with a Trojan horse virus (that I can't kill) and in a few minutes I will be formatting the drive and reinstalling XP32 for one last try - if it gets infected again I will have to buy a new printer and go back to XP64. Pisser is my printer is a pretty good one that cost good $$$ and I don't really need 8 gigs of ram for a general use PC. I made a hotrod quad-core, solid state drive offline PC with Windows 7 for gaming (well one game) and photo processing.
Off to reinstall XP again (I think I am close to 100 XP installs for far!)
Steve

must...
not...
make...
Windows...
comments...

Go ahead and let loose - I'm not used to this 32 bit crap. I gave up and am reinstalling XP64 (still formating to get rid of the bloody virus -89%.) Hackers suck - why can't they go get jobs instead of fucking with regular people?

Windows sucks! There I said it for you.

Signed,

An ex Apple Employee

I detest Macs they are clunky. I have hated then since the Lisa. I am done with the OS wars - I was a die hard OS2 warp guy and just gave up as it fizzled out - the mac should have done the same. Apple and Adobe software SUCKS, unfortunately we are forced to use this crap alone with MS crap. For only home use I use Linux and have no issues.

wait... what Virus is it? have you tried malwarebytes or combofix or spybot S&D or avast or... ?

Never heard of em? Mac? Lisa? Before my time. I'm a iPhone guy. Never heard of Linux either. Suppose you still use a desktop computer too?

Hey there. I own a computer shop and can probably help you. To second the above response, try the following:

(a) if you still have an Internet connection, download and install the 30-day free trial of Kaspersky AV from www.kaspersky.com. I don't dig the "Internet Security Suite" so much, just stick with the anti-virus product.

(b) Once that's running and installed, go get and install Malwarebytes Anti-malware (malwarebytes.org) and run a full scan. Kill anything it finds.

© After that, go get a copy of Spybot Search & Destroy from www.safer-networking.org and install it (but be sure to UN-check the box to install TeaTimer unless you hate yourself) and run a scan with that. Kill anything you find here, also.

(d) These are the automated tools. Once finished, get a copy of HiJackthis and run a scan (it only takes a few seconds) and send me the results.

If you don't have an Internet connection, re-start the computer and tap the F8 key after the initial BIOS text but before Windows begins to boot. Choose to start up with Safe Mode with Networking. Once in, go to Control Panel -> Internet Options -> Connections -> Lan Settings. Make sure all three boxes are clear of check marks. Often spyware will install a false proxy to redirect all the web traffic.

Then restart Windows and try the above.

Please report back your results. This isn't an exhaustive list, just a triage check.

At my shop we work on Macs, PCs, Linux boxen, everything. All of them have their good and bad points. Despite what the Kool-Aid drinkers will tell you, none of them are perfect.

Just had something happen to mine too. No internet connection. I had 4 people try to fix it. Ended up putting all my stuff on an extetnal HD and reformating. Cost me $200.00 bucks for the reformat and $ 100.00 for the external drive and 5 days off work. My work didn't stop just my ability to do it.

There's some nasty malware out there that hides from Spybot S&D and seemingly all the commercial anti-virus kits.

However, there is a free download that does a great job of eliminating malware and root-kits.

"Hitman Pro 3.5" does a great job of removing this new, nasty stuff, and is free for 30 days.

I highly recommend this for getting rid of the really nasty viruses and malware.

Eric Read

Nobody should be direct-connected to the internet without preferably a hardware firewall (such as in your router) or at least a software firewall. This plus some common sense in opening suspicious email attachments or web links will go a long way towards preventing problems...

I hate cars, because I hate steam power, cable operated brakes are unsafe, and wooden wheels are so easy to break on cobblestone streets.

A couple things have changed since the Lisa. Have fun in your virus and driver hell.

The reason Microsoft Windows computers are hit so hard by viruses is that for years, the Windows computers dominated the market share. For hackers, the Microsoft systems were "low hanging fruit".

Now that the Apple computers seem to be gaining market share, we are seeing more viruses and malware directed specifically at the Apple systems.

If you really want to get a secure system, find a DEC VAX/VMS system and use it. Of course your'll have to learn the VMS system, probably learn FORTRAN to manage the hardware hooks, and learn "C" or "C++" to design your custom applications. Oh yeah, you'll need to custom build all of your applications...

If you have a Windows computer, install good anti-virus and malware software. If you own a Mac, get ready, the virus and malware flood gates are getting ready to open.

Eric

LOL. I am dating myself here but I was an Apple-certified tech working on the very first Macs and LaserWriter printers, and I remember the hellish time we had fighting the early viruses and worms back then. They were rampant on Macs in the college environments and there wasn't much in the way of security tools yet. One of the professors lost several chapters of a book in progress when his computer got fatally infected and he did not have any backups (I basically laughed at him...not to his face though as I was still a student there after all.)

Ahem.

Firewalls do not protect against viruses. They protect against hackers directly or programs that attempt to exploit services operating behind open ports. Almost all low-grade home routers will provide firewall by virtue of NAT, and the Windows firewall works perfectly well. We see a lot of customers wasting their money on additional firewall protection. Most viruses enter your computer through legitimate means: an infected external media device, e-mail, a lousy software update (like the recent spat of AntiVirus Pro variants that come in through Adobe Acrobat/Reader updates from old versions), or deliberately albeit unfortunately downloaded "security" software, and the quite popular infection method of filesharing from untrusted sources like Limewire and other ilk. No firewall will protect you from viruses brought in from normal net-based operations.

uhhh... yeah.
Very nicely written! I used to use kaspersky a lot... and very true about Tea Timer. That gets to be more annoying than windows "are you sure you want to do that?" followed by the "you better be VERY sure..." and then the "Last chance to back out..." for every little thing.

People have been saying that for years and it has yet to come true. I remember arguing this with someone when I was still on OS 9. PCs are primarily low hanging fruit because of IE. IE5 and 6 were totally insane! For over two years you could take down IE with two lines of CSS code. Not javascript or some kind of ActiveX, but CSS!

No system is totally secure, but at least as long as you don't run Safari OS X is pretty good.

I work in IT on windows machines, but my personal computers run OS X and freebsd.

I use the computer for my job. I have Windows XP 32 installed. It runs 18h a day and is connectet to the web all the time. I run the Windows firewall and the free avast antivirus. I had never to reinstall Windows on any of my computers. The same OS runs from the day I built the computer to the day I give it to one of my children. And I keep every computer three or four years. My previous computer was an XP 2400+, I just built a new computer, I was so pleased with XP that I installed it on my new computer.

I never used the windows recover (I disable it ). I had bad viruses twice, but was always able to remove them in safe mode and with the help of freeware anti viruses or malware removers. Never spent a cent on security softwares.

I work in the graphic and design were everybody buys Macs. I see all my friends spending a lot of money on macs and mac softwares that are twice as expensive as PC stuff.

I think Windows XP is an excellent OS. I never had any troubles with it. It can run my old softwares without troubles and the community is so large that you always find a way to run obsolete hardware or softwares.

You can find cheap or free softwares for every need.

...

I really, really don't want to feed conspiracy theorists. Not that they'd need any help from me anyway, but I heard what was supposedly an industry insider say that early viruses were kids messing around and screwing with everybody. Basically geeks who were delinquents. That since the anti-virus software industry has grown so big and gotten so competitive these days most viruses are actually written by the anti-virus companies themselves. He said that the skills shown in the code of current viruses pointed to professionals. Makes sense, both operating systems and viruses have become a lot more sophisticated, those companies know what they're doing, they always seem to have a cure for the newest and baddest viruses already at hand, and it would be a strategy guaranteed to keep their sales up.

So put on your tinfoil hat and ponder that.

...

I might as well add an unhelpful comment from across the pond...


Run Solaris/OpenSolaris.... there...

Or Live here ! ....


















Click to view attachment

Printers are cheap....it's the ink that fucks ya....

Check the printer mfgr's web site for a 64 bit driver to downlaod - many have them & for Vista.

My older desktop is OE XP-Pro-32b & almost daily updated Norton IS & scanned - 2 weeks ago I still got some BS crap "XPDefender" malware & probably other stuff, which the Norton site says can get by their firewall anyway!!?? What BS - what do we non-techie-geek regular folks pay them for anyway!!??

Still trying to fix it & avoid a complete HD redo - but it's apparently injected a new Admin. instead of me on the XP, & everything .exe & desktop shortcuts go to what to open with window - so either my tries to get rid of it or the malware changed all that.

I want the ability like in that old computer movie (don't recall name), to go inside & backtrace the mf-ers doing this & pop out of their screen with a f'ng baseball bat & - a little wild west justice!!!!

Yep - hate laptops with their tiny screens and keyboards and crappy performance I I only use one for work, I still use a land line to and will soon be getting rid of my cell phone.
Typed from my crappy work laptop.

Canon does not make a driver for XP64 for my printer. They have one for every other OS just not XP64. Still trying to install XP64 M$ wont allow me to install my own software into the original computer it was originally installed on, I have to call them on the phone and they are closed until Monday. Off to search for my cracked version of XP32.

XP64 is a pretty rare item. I understand why they don't make a driver for it. On the 64-bit front I'd be inclined to use vista 64 or win7 64.

I'm running Win7 64... It's a lot more stable than Vista was on this particular machine.

After being bit a couple of times, I run two hard drives with separate operating systems and anti-virus.

When the master becomes infected, then switch the master/slave drive designation and use the uninfected drive to troubleshoot the problem drive.

That being said, never ever, ever, select one of those little windows that says "your hard drive is infected, run me"

When you see one of those, quickly open windows task manager and use it to kill all open internet windows.

Several runs of Malaware stopped the last infection, but Windows 2000 was never the same. It was lobotomized.

Lest we forget the GOOD hackers that protect our cyber borders everyday!

You kinda set yourself up for this kind of thing (regardless of platform) when you don't do anything to PREVENT it.

And to balance the discussion, statisctically *nix boxes have the most reported exploits.

Nothing to prevent it? Anti-spy ware, anti virus, anti malmare? NOTHING? I think you might have misunderstood me - I ran no antivirus on my XP64 install for over a year with no issue. I also stripped IE and outlook express from that install.

Thanks for the detailed replay. My PC was pretty badly messed up - I realized how bad while I was backing stuff up. Most of my programs had been attacked and would no longer run. I reformatted then found my old corporate version of XPpro, slipstreamed SP3 and used Nlite to strip out IE and outlook express and a bunch of other crap. Typing on the "new PC" right now. If I wasn't lazy the first time I probably would not had this problem - I did a standard full install last time.
Steve

Steve,
One of my work computers has Windows 7 and I also run the free virtual PC which allows me to run Windows XP in a window. You could do that just for your printer if you wanted.

I run Windows without issue (I use Avast Home). You probably had no issues with the 64bit machine as 32bit programs wont run on it. Most existing malmare is 32bit.

IE is the devil and needs to die. No problems with Outlook (Outlook Express is old.)

Usually stems from people's usage. My mom is constantly getting things on her computer, or getting infected with the most random sh*t and I just can't ever understand how...

If forced to use a Windows box (you mentioned gaming, so assuming so), look into Avast. Very small processing footprint and works great at preventing the malware altogether.

ps. I did misread the inital post. my bad! i've met too many people that have fresh installs with no added protection and then complain when they get infected with somethin.. i had my jump-to-conclusions map out

Exactly. who to help write preventative code, than former hackers? Kinda reminds me of the show "White Collar"...hire a "former" thief to help fight other thieves. Or several "professionals" now leading the booming business of firewall and email appliances.

for that conspiracy to hold water though, you would need to see Norton, McAfee and the other 'big' players looking to "protect" Macs, and Linux boxes as well. Why would they limit themselves to Microsoft platforms when a Mac could be thwarted just the same and "fixed" magically within hours?

It's not so much the sophistication that is increasing, but the availability of tools and the lack of security-minded programmers are what's making attacks more prevalent. The majority of exploits these days are sooo easy to find/manipulate that you'd laugh if someone showed you. They really aren't sophisticated at all (read majority of them)

cheap, secure, fast... pick 2

that would be a hell of a business model though huh?

Would be a hell of a business model? Would be? You're obviously not a practiced conspiracy whacko. Why wouldn't they do Macs? Easy, because Apple's one of the conspirators! Knocks Microsoft right off their high horse, doesn't it? As a marketing tool that's worth twice the price.

Cheap, secure, fast... pick Mac and get all three! Pick Microsoft and your PC gets diarrhea... and syphilis... and herpes... ewww!

...

show me a cheap Mac

I use a Linux box and 2 XP pro boxes at work for SW Development. Our artists just got Mac Pros. I leave my boxes on 24/7 I usually don't reboot until an update requires it, or something fails. But failures usually don't occur for weeks, at least. Sometimes months. And, often the failures are my fault. I have a lot of resource intensive tools open at the same time. Last week I watched our artists Mac pro, that he begged for, crash 4x in one hour on Adobe CS4. Often problems have less to do with the OS and hardware, and more to do with the user and applications. Users always find ways to crash stuff, the developers couldn't even dream up. Sometimes the hardest part of SW engineering is protecting the user from him/herself.

I'm no Microsoft fan either. But, some of their stuff is pretty solid now. I couldn't even do my job on a Mac if I wanted to, since the tools aren't available.

I can't say enough about how impressed I am with the Mac Pro case. It just oozes quality. I'm not sure if its worth the extra expense it adds. But it is really impressive.

Sure thing, any i-Mac on Craig's list will be faster than any Microsoft PC with a virus.

But if you just let yourself go and get into the conspiracy thought-flow you'll see that's Apple's marketing strategy, that Mac's get a premium because they aren't as prone to viruses! Gives Apple more than enough extra profit to pay into the Swiss bank accounts of those MS hackers... ahem... ahem... I mean those "independent contractors".

You got a better explanation for why Mac's seem to have some kind of viral immunity? No creative delinquents in the Mac community or something?

...

I would guess if Macs had the 10:1 market share that PC's have, more virus developers would target the Mac. I think its just a question of numbers. Whether its a question of security or not, I can't say.

I've gotten 1 virus in the last 5-10 years on my PC, and it was my fault because I did something dumb.

Why would you do this? Kind of like driving a car without a seat belt. Sure, you might never get in an accident...

Besides, XP 64 bit will still run 32 bit applications, including spyware, viruses itc.
Additionally, just because you think you didn't have any viruses, doesn't mean you didn't have one. Just being careful about what email attachments you open and what web sites you go to isn't enough. People send viruses through email unknowingly, and 'safe' web sites get hacked into and compromised and can then run malicious code on the computers that visit those sites.

I would direct your frustration at the company that makes your printer for not supplying a driver for your operating system.


We also run antivirus on our Macs at work, btw.

Mac versus Windows?

I thought religious discussions weren't allowed here?

How many servers do you have that our Macs? and how many that are Windows/*nix boxes?

that's why there's fewer Mac exploits. There's less potential for exponential gains if a Mac box gets taken over.. You take over a Windows/*nix server and suddenly you have many boxes at your disposal.

All this is fine geek talk, but to the rest of the "Regular folks" out here in cyber-land, the reality is that both the hackers & those selling them hack programs should be prosecuted, and stop fooling ourselves that this is "free e-commerce" & continuing with the Lawless Wild West BS!

If they robbed a bank, they'd do time - why not for this, since the hack program purveyors are apparently easy to find. Stop trying to blame one user for not carrying a big enough gun, and instead look to those who should be enforcing it.

Otherwise, the level of trust in e-commerce will drop so low, that there will be NONE to speak of cuz the masses will be scared off, period!

I think we all agree with this. The problem is that many of the hacks come from servers located outside of the US. So it is a jurisdictional problem as well. Another problem is finding a law enforcement agency equipped to handle such investigations from a technology knowledge and cost standpoint.

Unless a hacker does hit a bank or some other high dollar entity, the law enforcement community doesn't have the knowledge or resources to combat the hack.

Lastly, the thing most people love about the internet is the anonymity. The internet is truely based on anarchy ("A social state in which there is no governing person or group of people, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder).") No one owns the internet. It is really just a collection of shared circuits.

If we want law and order on the internet, then we must give up all of the anonymity and freedom such for an orderly system. A system where each search, each connection you make can be logged and reviewed by others that wish to save you from yourself.

Be careful for what you wish for...

Eric

Not necessarily Eric, one doesn't have to "own" something to prevent unlawful activities, but I do realize the jurisdictional problems. However, if you think that there really is actual & full anonymity on the internet, then I remind you that it grew out of a DARPA project - not Al Gore!

Anything & anybody can be traced, & it could also be better self-policed if some people out there (not meaning 914world) wouldn't look the other way or flat out condone the hackers.

Every company or person vaguely interested in operating e-commerce has a huge vested interest in this problem, and will suffer the consequences if a solution isn't found - and it seems to be ramping up in the past 12-24 months!

Sorry, but I'm not sure I get your point. Neither DARPA nor Al Gore are currently invested to the present day Internet.

As for tracing, tracking and logging the point of entry for Internet transactions, there are plenty of opportunities to redirect traffic through server farms in Eastern Europe, Russia, Africa and South America, where Internet tracking tools are less advanced, and there are no pesky jurisdictions from which to prosecute. (My apology for the run-on sentence.)

It is interesting that a network that was created from a state of anarchy was recently adopted by business organizations. Can anybody here identify the first Internet industry that was able to demonstrate a profit-making business model? Without the success of this first early-adopter industry, the Internet would probably not have exerienced the growth it did.

Just that DARPA created the military progenitor of what later became the WWW we know today, as with many technological advancements we use today - either from military & or space technology - point being just that there is that connection & a certain level of big brother watching someone, somewhere I'm sure - although not necessarily well as we saw from 9/11. Do you recall the uproar over the tracking chip/capability in the CPU's back in the late 80's & early 90's?

Al Gore was a joke, cuz he's (over-) claimed to have started a few things which were team efforts at the least in the past.

Your question on the first internet business would make a great B-school case study!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

False. Point of fact, Al Gore never claimed to have invented the internet. You can google the transcript of the Wolf Blitzer interview, where he was asked to list his accomplishments. In the middle of a long list he said he "created" the internet, referring to a bill he'd introduced that was known in Congress as "The Gore Bill". What that bill did was allow public access to the internet, created "dot com" addresses for commerce, and gave us all the things that transitioned the original DARPA net into the internet that you're using right now. Not the nuts and bolts, he never claimed that, but what it is, what you're using, exists in large part because of his efforts.

Everyone these days thinks he claimed to have "invented" the internet, but what he actually said was taken out of context and then misrepresented. There's even a Snopes.com entry debunking it (HERE in fact). He may be a nut job in a lot of ways but he really got jobbed on that one. He actually deserves credit, not derision. By the way, if you appreciate irony, in the debate in Congress about the Gore bill the whole concept of public use of the internet was ridiculed by opponents as Gore's useless loopy Jetsons space whimsy. I don't know how you can get much more wrong about anything than that.

This is not a political statement, nor meant to be one. It's just point of order about history, an attempt to correct a piece of internet "wisdom" that's wrong.

What? No takers on my little quiz?

"Can anybody here identify the first Internet industry that was able to demonstrate a profit-making business model? Without the success of this first early-adopter industry, the Internet would probably not have exerienced the growth it did."

The answer is the Porn industry. They created the first sucessful transactional accounts that were widely used on the Internet. They also pioneered the Internet checkout system and credit card model for Internet purchases.

The early porn sites not only provided a valid business model, thay also created a significant demand for consumer Internet connectivity.

Thank you porn, for our modern day Internet.