I'm considering buying this car. It leaks a few drops of oil when it sits overnight, the heat has been removed but he has all the parts -- i'll put it back on.

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Please opine...

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Well you've got the mechanical parts coverd in oil, but not too much oil. What you really need to be concerned about are the typical ( and non-typical
) rust areas. Get some shots of the hell hole, drivers suspension ear, floor pans, hell hole, longitudinals if you can. Even if these things LOOK good, that is still no guarantee Bondo, duct tape, and undercoating are a shiesters best friends

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Rob,

That looks like a possible rust problem up behind the fuel pump, & probably at the battery tray/hell hole area above it. but you also want to check floor pans, F&R trunk floors, behind the engine bay firewall heat/sound pad (as I found out on mine this weekend ), under seats, as well as the body topside for rust, etc., etc.

I have no idea what that tatty looking cloth wrap is on those lines under the engine - maybe a bad attempt to insulate CA lines?

Anyway, you'll need to post more pix here if you want help from the "experts" here, & also try to get a local teener expert &/or a mechanic experienced on them to go with you to check it over & test drive it before you jump!

Plan on a couple of three hours in good weather during daylight, & go to Jeff Bowlsby's classic914 website (see his sig line on 914world), & download/print the 914 assessment form to use when you go for the real assessment.

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Tom--
There is some rust up by the fuel pump but that's it, I have some pics of the other typical trouble areas.

These pics are from Bill Rudtner's PPI. He thought the car was leaking too much oil and there fore I should pass, but I am not so sure -- what 914 or other aircooled IV doesn't leak a little oil afterall??

Just trying to assess if this car is mechanically sound.

I see red flags. The clutch cable is "bailing wired" to the trans. That could leave you stranded. I don't think the location of the fuel pump is right. Shouldn't it be on the lower firewall? Rust (or shotty repair) above the heater tube, where the oil cooler lines are run. The suspension ear looks welded.

The hell hole is rusted, your fuel pump mount has turned to dust, the pass. side suspension mount has been welded, the motor leaks oil, the tranny leaks oil, your passenger side CV joint looks to be loose and the front cover plate is missing.

It looks just like your average 914 ...
Andy

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The car is going to need some work to make it right. Such as the rusted engine shelf and the fuel pump being mounted to the engine tin! It looks like a decent car with some shortcuts taken along the way.

How do you expect to add heat with headers and the oil cooler lines running through the long?

Yes -- suspension ears (both) were welded by Racer Chris, probably the most solid part of the car.

As for the clutch cable, I'm not familiar with what it *should* look like...but I do know I don't like being stranded!!

Headers will come off. (maybe i'll make a few bucks to finance other inevitable repairs...?)

oil cooler lines I can unbolt @ the engine -- they just hook up via a sandwich plate at the oil filter. I can pull them right into the front trunk, they're not secured to anything.

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This looks like leaking brake fluid but seller says he didn't clean up after bleeding brakes the morning of the inspection...looks reasonable

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I'm sure the suspension ears are good to go then. See the pic.... There should be a clip holding the cable to the stop. No big deal, but I would fix it. Half ass repairs usually travel in groups or armies on 914's.

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It's moved out of the way because of the headers. It's still VERY close to the headers so heat is an issue ...

If you had stock heat exchangers on that car, the clutch cable would be a straight shot forward. Currently, it's bend upwards with bail-wire to clear the headers ...

Andy

Fancy Bushings!!

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I can't tell that from these pics, where are you lookin?



yep, but I think that's the worst of it...


YEah, both sides repaired by racer chris, so not concerned about that.



Are you sure that's tranny oil on the tranny and not motor oil? Is this amount of oil leak "normal"?

The number of 'oddities' would make me nervous that there would be more surprises later on. I wouldn't buy this car expecting it to be maintenance free. That hell hole warrants a VERY thorough inspection. It all comes down to price. It's obviously not perfect, but if price is right, it doesn't look horrible.

Mark, what do you think the right price is?

Other details: car is a 73 2.0L FI signal orange, owner claims to have rebuilt most of the car, work done by a mechanic, from seals to trans mounts and bushings, 140lb rear springs, bilsteins at all 4 corners...he autox'd it.

i'm looking for a fun weekend car and I really want an orange 73 2.0L.

here's the car from the outside...


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The right price depends on too many things. I'm not really familiar with the NE market. The car looks decent, and worth looking further into. But there do appear to be some issues, so keep that in mind. You need to know if you're willing to make those repairs. There is some obvious metal work. The engine oil leaks mean to me that the motor is aging and may run forever, but it may crap out someone soon. You just don't know. Compression test?

I can't tell you what to pay for it, that's between you, the seller, and the car.

Take the inspection covers off of the tunnel by the shifter, and look inside for rust. Take out the battery, get mirrors and lights and look under for rust. Check to see that the rear window is tight. Most are loose and water rusts out the floor under the tar. This looks like a great car to work on a little at a time. Drive and keep it off the jack stands, and it'll be a great car to own. Price? What you think it's worth.

Check with the owner to see if he / she will allow the removal and reinstallation of the rocker panels , check around the jack points and the longs with the panels off. This will give you some indication of long / jack point rust. Pull the pedal board in the driver's side area , look around the pedal assembley for rust and leaking brake master cylinder , the routing of the clutch cable has been mentioned as a potential problem , but can be remdied easily , the other issues also can be remedied with some time and a little money, but mainly check for hidened rust issues, convince the owner to allow the rocker panel removal . Check the panel vendors on the forum to get an idea of prices for long , jack point repair pieces , and other hell hole repair pieces, this will give you an idea of what it may require to repair an other wise solid looking car that has hidened rust issues that after the sale you may find . It's looks good from the outside , but the insides are hidened by carpet , firewall padding , rocker panels. Your money , your call - everybody has been through this , if want a 914 then you take the plunge !!!Good luck , let the board know your findings and outcome , just look real hard and good at the prospective car .

Jack / Jaxdream

cept the bleeders on the other side of the caliper ..shouldnt be wet there

Jack,
Tons of pics of the car are here:
http://s760.photobucket.com/albums/xx246/t...tion=firstLogin

I'll post some of the highlights here showing some typical trouble spots.

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a few more pics

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No need to search for pics of the ear repairs. I have them in my customer car database. Both sides were carefully repaired, then reinforced. I don't have pictures of any other parts of the car though.

The clutch cable is re-routed to clear the header. If you switch back to HE's its no big deal but a new cable is probably a good idea. You can save the old one as an emergency spare. I bet the fuel lines are still oem.

The condition of the engine shelf is an indication that a hell hole repair will be necessary down the road.

The rear caliper has an o-ring seal on the inside, behind the adjuster screw under the black cap. It clearly weeps a little.
They often do that and it will require a rebuild at some point.
Eric Shea has nice rebuilt ones for a simple swap job. We rebuild them as needed in house but we don't re-plate them.

Price mentioned is probably a fair starting point. After that its up to how bad you want the car.
You were forewarned by Rudtner's so if you buy it don't be surprised when the spending spree begins.

Pictures of the floor inside the car don't tell a thing about the condition of the metal except that it has never been repaired. What you see is factory paint over tar sound deadening panels.

Bill saw oil on the underside and basically told me the engine was leaking oil like a sieve and I should pass on it. At the time I agreed, but based on comparing it to other 914s, the oil leak doesn't look bad -- a few drops overnight. I can live with that, as I think a 914 that doesn't leak a few drops is a unicorn (or at least out of my price range).

Rust is always the concern and we didn't get that far with Bill. In retrospect I should have stuck with it and had him do a full rust inspection. I will definitely have this done before a 3.5 hour road trip with a trailer in tow.

Regarding the spending spree -- as long as the car is fun to drive and safe i'm a happy guy, not going for a perfect car.

I agree with Chris about the floor and tar boards over the metal , no real way of evaluating the floors without removing the tarboards, maynot appear to be rusted , until you remove some of that sound deadening material . Overall from the pics it appears to be a fairly good car , but as mentioned the battery / engine shelf area needs some attention. Like I mentioned , check under the rocker panels , if not rusted , then the shelf area may be the worst , if the area around the jackpoint is rusted , then you can figure that the hell hole areais bad also rust runs down hill so to say. I would say if the rocker areas are ok , then go for it , all the other issues can be remidied with time ( elbow grease ) some money ( new HE gaskets , bolts , nuts of the proper size and type , parts missing ) and lots of TLC , which most all of these cars enjoy. Dude you really seem to have your mind made up , just seem to want some reasurance on some points of the car , if you are not familiar with 914s . see if you can get someone that does know them to check it out for youmaybe add that to the price of purchasing it , you know your budget better than anybody else , also know that you will probably have to pay more after the purchase to get it to where you need it , much less what you want from it . Good luck ......

Jack / Jaxdream

For $5k, too much. It is clean. It looks to have all the underlying problems common to these rides. Try to divorce yourself from that street view picture, which does look nice. But this will be a project car that you will be working on more than you drive in its first few years. Its going to be one project after the other, and soon you realize you spend a few grand, countless hours, and frustration, you should have waited for a cleaner ride that someone else has done the work. If the body and interior is good, this in my mind, is good, but useless if the motor tranny is not running right. The only saving grace is that it will be a garage queen that you can proudly say is yours to your family and friends. and in a few years, you can say to them, I got it running smoothly and its no longer leaking oil, thats after a new engine and a rebuilt tranny and countless other projects. Sorry I am a realist guys.

If you are looking for one that you buy, and just do tune ups and change oil, this is not the one. There are cleaner ones out there that you might want to budget for. Just like in Excellence, buy the best one you can afford..... I consider this one to be a medium term project would be on jackstands in the garage, I would be dropping the motor to repair the point of the oil leak and freshen the tranny syncros. This car would not see daylight for at least 1 year.

Dan,
I am curious -- why do you say tranny synchros?

Because he knows that unless the transmission was recently rebuild, the syncros will most likely be in pretty bad shape.

You are looking at a 35+ year old car ...
Andy

makes sense!!

seller claims tranny was rebuilt 5k miles ago around 2002 including all bushings. Of course no idea what "rebuilt" means but he autox'd it so it had to shift well for him to do that, right?