Okay fellow Teeners I'll try to keep this brief, long story short my fuel system is semi butchered and has a leaky rectangular fuel pump that appears to be out of a tractor, 30R7 fuel hose installed in the mid-nineties that's drying out and begining to split, or in one case appears to be MELTING! Standard style hose clamps instead of solid band clamps, zip tied fuel lines instead of clamped and two 3 foot lengths of hose pieced togehter where there should be one 6 foot length!!! AHHHHH

Now to sort this all out...

First off my 914 Info:
It's a 1972 with original 1.7L block with a 1.8 head and so on so it's actually 1910CCs. Dual Dellorto carbs each with one incoming fuel line from a brass T-juntion block supported by the fuel hose currently, no return vaccum lines, and currently a 2 port 1 inlet/1 outlet fuel pump setup loosely zip tied to the factory right angle tabs intended to hold the clear box-style in-line fuel filter. The fuel filter is 6 inches upstream from the fuel pump zip tied behind the passenger side firewall in the corner south of the "hell-hole" area allthough the battery is now housed in the front trunk and Red-Top Optima so it can be safely sealed in 100%.

Also perhaps important to note there is no 7-9MM "step-up" hose I've previously read about present in the system and not sure whether I'll need that if I'm re-doing everything with the same diameter line front to back?


More Importantly, The QUESTIONS!
In an attempt to keep chaos organized I'm going to number each question and if you can help resolve that question please reference the number and once it's 100% figured out I'll move it under "Resolved". Thanks!

Unresolved:

1. Will 5/16 SAE 30R9 (Teflon lined aka 50 times less permeable to fuel vapors than the more abundant 30R7 spec) fuel hose that's .56" outer diameter be able to be used front-to-back from the gas tank to a front mounted fuel pump; through the center tunnel, into a fuel filter somewhere in the system etc, or is .56" too large to safely fit through the firewall fore and aft and not rub?

2. Does anyone have large, clear, high resolution photos of the factory mounting location for a 75-76 front mounted fuel pump?

3. Will I need to drill holes or create mounting tabs in the front to mount a fuel pump in a factory-esk 75-76 914 fashion or are mounting provisions already present? (also FYI would like to keep it out of the front trunk cargo area; battery, compact 911 spare, and front oil cooler shroud already take up enough space, however the whole heater core/blower unit has been removed but I do intend to re-install the windsheild wiper fluid tank and an electric 914-6 pump to keep in mind for space)

4. Where can I find a proper OEM style Bosch (or superior) in-line fuel filter? NOTE: It needs to have the same inlet-outlet diameter as I'm hoping to use 5/16" hose throughout.

6. Where can I find a proper OEM style Bosch 2-port fuel pump that's warranted in some way, not from China, possibly not NOS as I've heard too many stories of seals drying out from sitting on a shelf, preferably not very loud, and also not super expensive as I'm only a college student of limited means after all.

7. Where can I find an OEM style fuel pump mounting bracket if it's not included with a new pump?

8. Where can I find OEM style solid fuel line band clamps that fit 5/16 (.056 OD) line, perferably in stainless steel?

10. Do the early/late 914 fuel pumps vary; with the later having a higher PSI to compensate for the increased distance for the fuel to travel under pressure? If yes, then how can I assure I get the correct one?

11. Assuming I order the right combo of fuel pump, filter, etc, will I be able to use 5/16" ID line throughout and avoid the 7-9MM stepped OEM hose which only meets a lower SAE rating/spec?

13. It won't particularly matter to me because locally I can only buy 30R9 fuel hose in a 25' reel; but for the sake of other teeners looking to revamp their fuel system, approximately (rounding up obviously) how many feet of fuel line should be purchased to replumb the system from front to back?

Resolved:

5. Assuming I'm able to relocate the fuel pump to the front mimicking 75-76 914s, where should the fuel filter be mounted in the system?


9. If I intend to simply extend the current fuel pump wires forward through the center tunnel what gauge wire/rating etc should I use? A friend is a professional electrician and can essentially do anything provided I give him specific specs & instructions as to what I need accomplished.


12. Where to find 30R9 fuel hose? - Found one retailer regionally selling this in a 25' reel of Goodyear manufactured 5/16 SAE 30R9 hose for $95.00. 100PSI max w/900 PSI bursting pressure.


Thanks for any help you can offer! I can't wait to resolve this issue (prior to it actively leaking fuel on the ground) and have my 914 back on the road destroying the back country twisties! Hopefully this can be used as a detailed guide for others in the future hoping to do the same conversion!

20 questions, too early to give you all your answers if I even could read for that long without falling asleep.

pelicanparts.com for you 914 oem serch ect.. filters.'76pump. and the like, hos ehose clamps ect.. search the site if you ccan't find it call them.. the have cow hides to hose clamps..

mount filters before pumps unless you like buying pumps..

I do not know about 100 psi teflon fuel hose of ss hose clamps i am sure they are on the internet somewhere.. google google google

I do not recomend "avoiding" metric step down with 5/16" hose.. to loose in areas ect.. leakage fire stinky



yes late and early pump are different but i do not think there psi varies as imporatant as

the fuel pressure regulator

remains the same in your fuel system..

use same gauge wire that is already to your fuel pump for rewirng in a different further location.

It sounds like your system was home engineered, but that can be OK for a while. I'd save myself a lot of work and searching, and simply purchase a low pressure fuel pump from one of the vendors ( you don't want a high pressure Bosch pump, and don't want to pay for a low pressure Bosch pump). I used a pump purchased from MidAmerica Motorworks that was made for a VW. It's small, cylindrical, and can be mounted with rubber isolators under the steering rack in front. A fuel filter can be mounted between the tank and the fuel pump (why pump unfiltered gas?). One of our members makes nice stainless fuel lines that should be used in the center tunnel. Otherwise, braided fuel line can be used, but it is expensive. I've also found Pegasus Racing to be a good source of small parts, lines, clamps, etc.

If you're running carbs, you don't need a return fuel line.

Enjoy your project, be careful, and safe.

5/16 th inch hose works just fine, use the solid clamps and be happy, the benifit of the 30R9 lined hose is worth spending money on, as teh new gasolines eat up the 30R7 an interesting note that in california 30R7 hose is now being marked as NOT suitable for Fuel Injection. thats right, it used to be used for Fi, but now I am seeing 30R7 hose being marked for no FI. I guess the 30R7 can be damaged by teh new gas so fast that they dont want high pressure runing thru it anymore.

frankly I'd reinstall your pump were it came from the factory, these cars are becoming more of a collector car, where originality can really help value. there is little if any benift from moving the stuff around, stick with stock if you can.

HighPerfromance House (650) 3674-6234 shoudl have all the parts you need.

the stepped hose really needs to be used, your going between two different diameters, you need teh steppe hose, A side benifit from keeping teh pump in the rear location is that teh stepped hose will NOT be pressurzied, as it is before the pump!

30R9 can be found at many kragens or Pepboys, but you may have to go in back and look for your self for the labling. the counter foks may not be aware of the differences


hose clamps can be had at Highperfomance house or any parts store should have them, I use Ideal brand, you can also get stainless ones at West Marine they have at least two grades of clamps the high grade is like near ten X price, but is all stainless and very nice the low grade ones will however work just fine so long as they are solid band, you should be good.

Yup, I first read about the 30R9 fuel hose here on 914 World; which may have been you posting about it too; but yes after further research I learned that Diesel truck drivers who run bio-diesel and straight vegetable oil will only use 30R9 because 30R7 gets eaten up in sometimes only 6 months with the constant heat from high mileage and all the impurities found in bio-diesel etc... whereas the 30R9 lasts them 2yrs+ under the same aggresive conditions.

Regarding the stepped hose; I should've clarified that by "avoid it" I had hoped to use lines, pump, and filter that all have the same inlet/outlet diameter to start with a stepped hose actually wouldn't work at all if that makes sense?

I'll do a bit of searching at local marine shops for the SS band clamps, we've got a few nice big ones in town so that shouldn't be too big an issue; thanks for the suggestion! Does this "Ideal" brand have a website? I tried looking for those at local parts stores after reading that same suggestion in a previous post of yours but all 5 big parts stores within a mile of me didn't have them!

Oh, and at least here in the Mid-West 30R9 can only be had in stock at one sole location, Smyth Automotive; even Hydralic shops and guys who told me they've been in the business "30 years and have never heard of it" were unable to help... one "Googled" 30R9 while he was still on the phone and was baffled that something had trumped the 30R7 which is a measely $15.00 for a 25ft reel! vs. $95.00 for the superior 30R9! But as Mark Twain once said: "When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Cincinnati because it's always twenty years behind the times." ha and evidently the same is true for regional parts availability!

Additionally, I'm not 100% opposed to keeping the fuel pump in the rear but I figure everything else is highly modified on my 914, and I'm fairly sure I've already experienced vapor lock symptoms while attempting to start in the -10 times I've driven my 914 since owning it which I had hoped to avoid by relocating it to the front...

Still no luck finding specific pieces like the solid SS band clamps!?

Any 914 fuel system experts lurking about?

I'd try some local parts stores....I just got some solid hose clamps from a wholesaler that I buy parts from. Ask for "fuel injection clamps". That's what I got....

Still no luck finding anything locally Perhaps someone knows where to find most of these parts online?

914 is ready to get out on the road if it weren't for the PO's botched fuel line install and leaky fuel pump!

I used a "kit" from pelican parts about 10 years ago. I'm sure AA has something to offer and you'll at least wind up with the piece of mind that you have the correct parts...

Try GPR too. Good guys.

Thanks, but my hopes are to use modern 30R9 fuel house throughout which will last significantly longer...

Also trying to determine what the factory inlet/outlet sizes are on the Bosch fuel pump and fuel filter so I can tell if the 5/16" hose is going to work through each segment or if I need to source a different pump & filter?

If anyone has an idea/photo how the 75/76 pump is mounted in the front and its exact location that would be handy too?

Thanks for everyone's help... I currently have no 914 specialists in the area to consult...

Okay folks, after reading this thread: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=107813

That pretty much resolves the question of whether or not to run rubber line through the tunnel... which it looks like a definite NO!

That being said I still feel like I should absolutely replace the original plastic line through the tunnel that's been in place since 1972... it just looks and feels far to brittle...

Any suggestions for an OEM style replacement there?

If I can get ahold of the proper OEM parts I may just take it back to factory and leave the fuel pump in the rear (although still replace it with a new Bosch unit) so I can get this 914 back on the road!

I know some people have said vapor lock is more of a concern than others? If I were to re-do the pump & filter in factory location I suppose I could heat wrap the pump and as an additional perk I could use the current mounts & wouldn't have to figure out how to mount them up front...

My only concern in keeping with the factory setup is using the lesser grade rubber tapered hose that will break down quicker than the 30R9 but I suppose I can just order two of those from Pelican so I have one on hand in the event of a failure/split?

914 Stainless Replacement Fuel Lines

Even though it isn't listed, I also have 30R9 hose.

Hooray; that looks like a solid solution...

I plan to convert to EFI eventually but for now its carb and will probably remain that way for at least the next year...

I'll definitely buy the line for the tunnel, but would the engine compartment line be of any benefit to me since I have a aftermarket dual carb setup?

Also I have no idea what diameter line I should run through the tunnel since you have multiple options... and lastly the aluminum step down piece looks nice but wouldn't that require two more sections of hose and 2 more clamps instead of one?

It would probably help if I had a photo of all of this installed... I suppose the "step-down" hose goes from the fuel line coming out of the tunel and into the fuel filter???

Please fill in the blanks for me... it would be much appreciated...

Oh, and also, would there be any disadvantage to using the OEM Bosch fuel pump with a carb setup and your fuel lines? I'm on the verge of purchasing one although it specifies "for fuel injected cars", not sure if the pressure is different?

An FI pump is wrong for carbs. You need a low pressure pump.
Since you have carbs now, and no pump, I recommend the package for carbs at the bottom of the web page. You can easily add the other lines if and when you convert to EFI.
Using the step-down adapter piece does mean you will have another piece of hose with clamps at each end. I would rather have that than use the wrong size hose.

Depending on where you put the fuel pump, the step-down piece goes in different locations.
The best setup for you is probably with a front mounted pump. The adapter goes right after the tank and before the filter in that case.

Ha okay great, well that solves a lot right there... I was on the brink of purchasing the $100+ Bosch FI unit too; suppose I go ahead and buy your carb kit, does it include all the needed length of hose for dual carbs, enough solid style SS band clamps for the fuel system front to back including a T-fitting at the rear and 30R9 fuel hose or should I simply buy the hose from my 1 source locally and cut it to fit?

Thanks again for helping me out!

The kit includes everything you need to go from the fuel tank, all the way into the engine compartment right rear corner.
It does not include the hose, tee fitting & clamps to connect the carbs.
I can provide that too. You need to email me since it isn't all available directly from my website.