i'm falling in love with these cars and presently shopping for a 2.0. i've got my eye on a 1975 (no engine rebuild) but looks great with around 50k miles. what kind of work can i expect to do on it? (no rust) how can i obtain a vehichle history report to research history for accidents etc? should i spend over 5k for original one in great shape or restored? what should i look for? help!
Full Version: buying a 914
i'm falling in love with these cars and presently shopping for a 2.0. i've got my eye on a 1975 (no engine rebuild) but looks great with around 50k miles. what kind of work can i expect to do on it? (no rust) how can i obtain a vehichle history report to research history for accidents etc? should i spend over 5k for original one in great shape or restored? what should i look for? help!
Rust is the primary thing to look for. There are scads of articles on various sites, as well as many answers to this question on this board you can search for.
In terms of vehicle history, on anything that's 30 years old, you have to expect that much of the history has been lost. These are not highly prized collector's cars with lots of documented history. Many of them have been through many owners, so even trying to judge from the guy you're buying from is not always a good measure. Look at several cars (there are nearly always 5-6 for sale in the Bay Area at any given time) to get a feel for what's out there. $5K is top dollar for a stock four-cylinder car, so I'd expect it to be in exceptionally nice condition.
In terms of vehicle history, on anything that's 30 years old, you have to expect that much of the history has been lost. These are not highly prized collector's cars with lots of documented history. Many of them have been through many owners, so even trying to judge from the guy you're buying from is not always a good measure. Look at several cars (there are nearly always 5-6 for sale in the Bay Area at any given time) to get a feel for what's out there. $5K is top dollar for a stock four-cylinder car, so I'd expect it to be in exceptionally nice condition.
I agree with everything lapuwali said except top dollar is closer to $8000 for a low mile (under 100K) original in excellent condition, or a quality restoration. The market is moving up on our cars.
Don't buy anything unless you take the car to someone who knows what they're looking at. Since you're in the neighborhood, take it to Rich or Brad for a good looksy. You can get yourself in deeper than you think with rust and neglect. BTDT.
Welcome to the board! You're in the right place to ask that question. Rust is the biggie. A lot of the questions you asked are dependent upon the car. Get some pictures of the car you're looking at, and we'll throw some ideas at you.
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thanks for all the good info and hopefully within a few weeks i'll be joining the ranks as an owner! actually two of the cars are listed on this website...a 73 with a dent and engine rebuild for 3500 in sacramento and the restored siver car for 6500...the one with the red seats...anyone care to take a look and comment? by the way, why do so many of these cars have broken heaters or heat boxes removed? thanks again...scabo
Welcome to the board
the best advise is have someone who knows these cars look at it. As mentioned by cavwpguy. Contact HPH and make an apointment for them to give it a PPI, best $$ you will ever spend.
The heater boxes are usually removed because they have rusted out....or the owner went to a header system.
the best advise is have someone who knows these cars look at it. As mentioned by cavwpguy. Contact HPH and make an apointment for them to give it a PPI, best $$ you will ever spend.
The heater boxes are usually removed because they have rusted out....or the owner went to a header system.
Since you like in Cali, one thing to consider is smog. Is 75 exempt? If so, you're fine there, and you could get a motor with a little more guts. The 75 and 76 2.0s are different than the 73 & 74 2.0s. Everyone likes the 73 & 74 2.0s as the 2.0 to buy. If you are looking for an original car then that's true, but there are a lot of 70-73 1.7 cars that have replaced their motors with 2.0s. I think this can be a good choice. Mine has that.
Look around, learn the pitfalls and then look at lots of cars.
Look around, learn the pitfalls and then look at lots of cars.
Dominic Cilias Marathon Blue car in Vacaville, would be perfect for you. Is it still available?
Scabo7, here the contact info you wanted:
HPH
A very good point was made here. A 75 or higher will need to be smogged for now. 74 and lower do not. That's either a good thing (if it passes) or a bad thing (if it doesn't). 75 and 76 cars can be great to own and drive, but if you plan to modify it from stock (even as a possibility) consider a 74 or lower.
HPH
A very good point was made here. A 75 or higher will need to be smogged for now. 74 and lower do not. That's either a good thing (if it passes) or a bad thing (if it doesn't). 75 and 76 cars can be great to own and drive, but if you plan to modify it from stock (even as a possibility) consider a 74 or lower.
75 no longer needs to be smogged in CA.
Rust is the biggest issues with these cars like the other guys said. What is your intent for the car? Daily driver, weekend driver, show car? The price range varies greatly depending upon what your looking for. A nicely restored car can range from 6-8K. Some higher depending upon the qualitly of the work, and what was done. Alot of these cars now have rebuilt engines. Who rebuilt it? Is is documented? What was rebuilt on it? Obviously there are places that do exceptional work and others that do not.
There's a few on the board for like $3500 and up that might be worth looking into. Again, all depends what your looking for.
A PPI is most important! If your serious about a car, have it gone over with a fine tooth comb, compression and leak down test, etc. Find out what it needs and what it would cost to fix/replace that. 30 year old cars typically need new weather seals, cost which like $1200 or so to do it all, rear window reset, bushings, shocks, fuels lines..... the list goes on and on.
On occassion, you will see some exceptionally nice low milage original cars for sale. A yellow 75 with 10K recently went for around $18,000. There is a 74 with 24K on it that is being sold for $18500. A 76 maluga red with 24K for around 19K. A delphi green 74 was being offered for $14K. Those cars where all original and exceptional contition. Not your every day nice 914. As you can see the prices range varies quite abit.
You can find a nice car for 5-6K. But if it you need to put another 5k into it, is it worth it? Putting 5K into a 5K car, typically doesn't make it as nice as a 10K car being offered for sale. If you are handi and can do the work yourself, great! Big savings there. Bear in mind though, parts for these car are high.
For a daily driver, maybe find one that has a nice repaint, no rust, and documented engine rebuild, brakes, etc.
Regarding rust plenty of threads on that. But battery tray area, longitudes, remove outer rocker panels and look inside, floor pans, behind the seats where water came in from a leaky rear window, trunks, etc. You basically want to cover every inch on it when your inspecting it. Also, if the car has been respayed, there was probally a reason for it, any pre-paint photos? Undercoating on bottom can hide rust. Test the pans with a screw driver or something.
Good luck with your search!
There's a few on the board for like $3500 and up that might be worth looking into. Again, all depends what your looking for.
A PPI is most important! If your serious about a car, have it gone over with a fine tooth comb, compression and leak down test, etc. Find out what it needs and what it would cost to fix/replace that. 30 year old cars typically need new weather seals, cost which like $1200 or so to do it all, rear window reset, bushings, shocks, fuels lines..... the list goes on and on.
On occassion, you will see some exceptionally nice low milage original cars for sale. A yellow 75 with 10K recently went for around $18,000. There is a 74 with 24K on it that is being sold for $18500. A 76 maluga red with 24K for around 19K. A delphi green 74 was being offered for $14K. Those cars where all original and exceptional contition. Not your every day nice 914. As you can see the prices range varies quite abit.
You can find a nice car for 5-6K. But if it you need to put another 5k into it, is it worth it? Putting 5K into a 5K car, typically doesn't make it as nice as a 10K car being offered for sale. If you are handi and can do the work yourself, great! Big savings there. Bear in mind though, parts for these car are high.
For a daily driver, maybe find one that has a nice repaint, no rust, and documented engine rebuild, brakes, etc.
Regarding rust plenty of threads on that. But battery tray area, longitudes, remove outer rocker panels and look inside, floor pans, behind the seats where water came in from a leaky rear window, trunks, etc. You basically want to cover every inch on it when your inspecting it. Also, if the car has been respayed, there was probally a reason for it, any pre-paint photos? Undercoating on bottom can hide rust. Test the pans with a screw driver or something.
Good luck with your search!
Oh and body panel fit. Check door caps, trunks, headlights etc. A dead give a way if the car has real bad pans/rust is to jack it up then see how the doors open and close. Stay away if they don't close right.
As is common, there's an exponential effect on pricing for cars that are concours-quality or nearly so. $18K is WAY above market price for 99% of the 914s out there. $5K is top dollar for a driver, IMHO (i.e., a car you're not afraid to drive every day and park at the supermarket). Above that, you're getting into weekend-only garage queens. By the time you get to $10K, the car would have to be in extremely nice condition (recent top-quality repaint with everything off the car), but doesn't have to be original. Above $10K, originality is everything. By $15K, it had better be able to win a concours with nothing more than a light rubdown.
From my own watching of the Bay Area market, you shouldn't have to put another $5K into a $5K car, unless you're trying for a show winner, in which case you should have bought a $10K car to start with, or you're looking for something that can't easily be bought turn-key (like a big-engined toy). Perhaps my view is skewed by the plethora of cars on the Bay Area market, but the original poster is here, too.
As for broken heaters, there is no "heater" besides that noisy thing behind the seats.
The red lever between the seats opens a pair of flapper boxes that redirects air around the exhaust into the cabin. If it doesn't, then the cables have parted or the flapper boxes have been removed. Perhaps the car has headers on it with no provision for heating. There is an electric fan in the engine bay that pushes air through these, but they do break (30 year old electric motors frequently do). There's also a fresh-air motor in the box at the base of the windscreen, subject to the same aging problems. I get enough hot air in the cabin with the engine fan alone for usual Bay Area temps. Indeed, even in mid-winter I can't usually leave the heater lever open all the way w/o the cabin becoming too stuffy.
From my own watching of the Bay Area market, you shouldn't have to put another $5K into a $5K car, unless you're trying for a show winner, in which case you should have bought a $10K car to start with, or you're looking for something that can't easily be bought turn-key (like a big-engined toy). Perhaps my view is skewed by the plethora of cars on the Bay Area market, but the original poster is here, too.
As for broken heaters, there is no "heater" besides that noisy thing behind the seats.
The red lever between the seats opens a pair of flapper boxes that redirects air around the exhaust into the cabin. If it doesn't, then the cables have parted or the flapper boxes have been removed. Perhaps the car has headers on it with no provision for heating. There is an electric fan in the engine bay that pushes air through these, but they do break (30 year old electric motors frequently do). There's also a fresh-air motor in the box at the base of the windscreen, subject to the same aging problems. I get enough hot air in the cabin with the engine fan alone for usual Bay Area temps. Indeed, even in mid-winter I can't usually leave the heater lever open all the way w/o the cabin becoming too stuffy.
i would personally look for a 74 or newer, as the 75 and 76 require catalysts, have much more expensive exhaust systems, and i believe they all required air pumps. The smog stuff in general costs more to replace, causes shorter engine life do to higher temperatures, and limits performance. True the 75 is now smog exempt, but that could change with a simple vote in the state legislature (its been tried almost every year) Also technically, just because the car is smog test exempt, it is still technically illegal to change the smog stuff, and i have heard that road side smog monitoring will becoming to the bay area in the future, so you could still be busted, even if no testing requirements for your car.
If you wish to keep all the smog gear on a later car, and it is all functional, then go for it, just beware of the costs to replace it all if you ever need too. The early cars may also one day be busted for smog, but they are much less expensive to return to smog complience, as they had very little smog stuff to start with.
be advised of rust issues, and have a 914 person take a look at the car before purchase, i am sure you might be able to talk a lister near by into looking with you at a car, maybe buy him/her lunch for helping you out??? it would be well worth it, as a bad car can cause all kinds of problems for you.
i do not mean to cut down the 75 and 76 cars, they can be a great fun car, but they do not lend themselves to performance upgrades as easy as the early cars becuase of smog issues. They are however safer cars with better bumpers (somelike the looks, some do not) and better side impact metal in the doors (hence they weigh more, and since the stock engines had less power do to smog, are a bit slower) If you do not plan on modifing the car, and want better safety, a newer 75/76 car might be a better choice. All the 914s can be set up to handle extremely well.
I had a 70 1.7 car, and now have a 72 2.0 (converted from a 1.7) both were very fun cars.
Again, beware of rust on the 914, it is the biggest single mistake made in buying a 914, good rust free (or nearly so ) cars are out there, so wait for one with minimal if any rust. There are many rusty cars for sale, and they are junk, unless you spend big bucks and/or hard labour to fix them) Other than that , all the standard stuff about a 30 year old car would apply, check it carefully, drive it, compression test, have someone that knows about them take a look see.
good luck in your purchase.
dave
If you wish to keep all the smog gear on a later car, and it is all functional, then go for it, just beware of the costs to replace it all if you ever need too. The early cars may also one day be busted for smog, but they are much less expensive to return to smog complience, as they had very little smog stuff to start with.
be advised of rust issues, and have a 914 person take a look at the car before purchase, i am sure you might be able to talk a lister near by into looking with you at a car, maybe buy him/her lunch for helping you out??? it would be well worth it, as a bad car can cause all kinds of problems for you.
i do not mean to cut down the 75 and 76 cars, they can be a great fun car, but they do not lend themselves to performance upgrades as easy as the early cars becuase of smog issues. They are however safer cars with better bumpers (somelike the looks, some do not) and better side impact metal in the doors (hence they weigh more, and since the stock engines had less power do to smog, are a bit slower) If you do not plan on modifing the car, and want better safety, a newer 75/76 car might be a better choice. All the 914s can be set up to handle extremely well.
I had a 70 1.7 car, and now have a 72 2.0 (converted from a 1.7) both were very fun cars.
Again, beware of rust on the 914, it is the biggest single mistake made in buying a 914, good rust free (or nearly so ) cars are out there, so wait for one with minimal if any rust. There are many rusty cars for sale, and they are junk, unless you spend big bucks and/or hard labour to fix them) Other than that , all the standard stuff about a 30 year old car would apply, check it carefully, drive it, compression test, have someone that knows about them take a look see.
good luck in your purchase.
dave
don't rush into it or you might end up like miles. 
funny thing about that. Miles didn't rush into it. He researched and hired what was (self?)proclaimed to be a good shop to do a car for him.
Guy on the 911 board got stung too....went cross country for an engine rebuild....shipped the car and drove it back....he ain't happy neither, more or less peeved up the wazoo...
Same wrench, BTW.
Same wrench, BTW.
QUOTE(dmenche914 @ Apr 12 2004, 11:37 AM)
True the 75 is now smog exempt, but that could change with a simple vote in the state legislature (its been tried almost every year) Also technically, just because the car is smog test exempt, it is still technically illegal to change the smog stuff, and i have heard that road side smog monitoring will becoming to the bay area in the future, so you could still be busted, even if no testing requirements for your car.
these are good points to consider. in practice, however, i have never had any trouble from the authorities with my de-smogged, ER header-equipped, now-running-slightly-richer '75. engine runs cool after these mods, pulls a lot harder. if a competent smog-tech so much as looked in the engine compartment, i'd be toasted. thankfully, smog-techs don't look in my engine compartment
auto enthusiasts can't grow complacent, but i don't believe that the 30 year smog-exemption laws will get repealed anytime soon.
i've also heard rumors about the road-side monitoring, but given the budget crisis, i can't see it happening at all in the near future.
Road side monitoring is for gross emitters....has be running REALLY foul to get nailed....
QUOTE
you shouldn't have to put another $5K into a $5K car
Your right, you shouldn't have to.But, If the car needs shocks, bushings, and various other items, the $$$$$ start to add up fast. That's why it's key to really find someone you can trust to go over the car so you know what your getting into if you elect to buy it. Labor around here is $80 an hour. I can't imagine it being any cheaper out in Cali.
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