My sons purchased a wing for the rear. It is a JsP double deck wing with short mounts. Wing 52" wide and 7.5" tall. The question we have is the following:
Can the rear trunk provide enough support for the wing without damaging the trunk?
I really do not know how much downward force the wing could generate.
My WebpageThe wing will be used for the guys to street drive, (ages 14-17 and I can't control everything) and not for track use. I will remove the wing for the track.
Thanks,
L. McChesney

You'll damage the trunk when you drill the holes through it to mount the wing. IMO, your kids are going to ruin the nice clean lines of the 914 by mounting a wing.

i don't normally offer my humble opinion, but seriously, that wing would be a crime on a 914. there are plenty of others that are asthetically, and probably effectively, more appealing. for the love of heaven, just say no.

Thanks Anthony,
Yes, we will destroy the asthetics I appreciate, but that value is less than having and holding the interest of my sons.
L. McChesney

well, to keep the interest of the sons, i suppose it would be worth it. i will no doubt find myself treading similiar waters in a couple short years. good luck to you!

I'd try to teach my sons that the only mods worth doing are those that actually improve the driveability and performance of the car. I think on a 914, adding a airdam in the front and removing the rear valance will help more than a wing on the long straight-a-ways on a track.

I don't think so ... pretty thin back there without additional bracing. Heck, you're drilling holes to install the thing, so I wouldn't be concerned about damaging the trunk at this point.

What do you need a wing back there for street use anyway? Totally useless ... Sure the kiddies aren't succumbing to the rice crowd?

Isn't this when it would be useful?

Did they save the receipt? Maybe you can return it towards a stereo upgrade ... or something.

Thanks Guys.
Air dam in front and rear valence gone already.
Yes, I thought I would mount the thing on the trunk lid and place the plugs when I get to drive it.
I have no doubt that this is a ricer thing. But, I also cannot appreciate their music. I would not have to listen to the wing.
To prevent structually damage to the lid, I was going to have the boys reinforce the mount site with 1/8 inch steel.
I probably would look like Scot C's avitar (Roadglue.com).
L. McChesney

sorry but that's fugly.

Your a better man than I. If my son was 14 - 17 (He's only 2yrs old now) and said that he want to put that on my car, the answer would be NFW. Your car do what you want.....



Isn't that going to be PITA after a while? I know its only four bolts but still. Take it off, plug holes, put back when son wants to drive, repeat. Post a pic when its on the car, maybe some of us that don't like might change our minds?

- Garold

I had to stand by and watch my 19 year old put thousands of dollars of his own money into a lift on his 92 bronco and believe me I had to BITE MY LIP to keep from criticizing this use of his wages. But I realized that kids are gonna commit atrocities on their cars and that's the way it is. My first car at 17 yrs old was a 59 MGA in great shape . I recovered the door panels with an indian rug and changed the clear plastic side curtains to smoked red plastic . I got laid more than any of my homies I assure you . Use some backing when you mount, and assume that the drag created by their at most, what... 55 MPH drive speed will not create enough lift to matter. LET THE KID GO WITH THE WING!

what's are 14 and 15 year olds doin' drivin????

Kill the ricer, Kill the ricer.

Next thing you know they 'll be wanting to add neon, "spinnas", some NAWS, etc. Stop them before they turn into full blown fart can, sticker clad Geo Metro owners.

Options:

1) Mount the wing on a spare targa top. That way removing it is easy. Makes about as much sense as putting it anywhere else on the car. I bet you could spend hours of quality time with your sons discussing the validity of this.

2) Put your foot down and teach them what is correct and real, versus what is wrong and fake. If they want to get anywhere near a track it has to be with the proper knowledge; otherwise they're just embarassing themselves and wasting money at the same time.

3) If (1) and (2) don't work then give up now and buy them a Civic.







Dang that was good. I think I'm ready to have kids now.

I'm gonna hafta go with John on this one. Tell them NO. It will decrease the value of the car and do NOTHING for the handling. I like the approach of explaining how and why a 914 doesnt need one of these.

I enjoyed what Patrick had to say about his son and what he had done in the past.. but what he did in the past didnt not affect the outward appearance/value of the car.

If they want RICE buy them RICE. Please for the love of 914's DO NOT do this.


B

Opinions aside...

Depending on how wide the vertical mounts are you could attach them through the top of the fender on each side of the trunk. That way you get a decent amount of contact with fairly sturdy body panels.



Opinions not aside...

I say if you can be allowed to drive around with a torn clutch cable, bad tranny mounts, carburetors, and sticking calipers (etc) then these boys can put a wing on their car.

The faster you look, the faster you'll get pulled over. Cops prefer you NOT be a car enthusiast under 30
The money could be better spent taking girls out or traveling or sports or gas money

L. McChesney,

you've got email!

The trunk is thin in that area.... so I would weld some extra sheet metal on the underside
to add extra bite for the wing. The other option is find an extra trunklid one for the wing and one
for no wing. Let the kid have the wing if thats what he wants.

You guys are a bunch of wet towels. Why is a freakin lambo kit (abortion on wheels) OK and a wing not? Let the kids have their fun!

This is what makes this forum useful and significant.
In deed, I have been looking at an alternate trunk lid for when the guys get through this phase. I would much rather change a trunk lid than a targa top.
Brad, not concours, just function. Remember, we learn by deductive reasoning and subjective reasoning. No matter what I say now, my 14 and 15 year olds will not just swallow it. Remember what Samuel Clemmings said, " When I was 18y/o my Father was the dumbest man arround. When I was 22y/o, he was the wisest man I knew. Sure did lear a lot in four years."
John, store these post somewhere. You will at least get a chuckle in 12 years.
glstrojan, the 14 y/o is not driving on the street. The 15 has his permit. And yes, just like I leared to drive the farm truck at 10-12y/o, I begin early with them and let them drive off the street. You can't teach in 6 months.
Besides, its not just the driving. Its the thinking, getting the hands dirty and trial and error.
Not being disrespectful guys, it still is just a car. What is being done here is NOT as bad as allowing a roller to occur, not that I mind getting access to the part cars.
L. McChesney, Andrew, Eric and David

What's wrong with a wing?

Bill P.

I'm not a fan of the wing the "kids" want, but what the heck, it's not a permanent item, rear trunks are cheap enough (got a free one for you, but shipping could be a hassel)

If anything, I'd be afraid of it getting stolen by someone in the honda/saturn crowd........

Bill,

During auto-x, think the wing helps or hinders or has no impact?

Looks great on your car...the rest of the vehicle plus knowing you have the power to back it up makes the wing perfect for your car...

Hi Mike,

The wing doesn't do anything for auto-x. I feel it on the track...changing angle settings will make a noticeable difference. Even with a 2.7 race motor I doubt I have enough hp to offset the drag. But the car sticks in turns and is a load of fun to drive.

That's my point of the wing, do what you want to your car. We all have differenct opinions, but at least we all try to keep our 914's running (at least sometimes)

I have supports holding the wing in place that go down into the trunk due to the fact we run the car on the track. But I'm also thinking of buying a 2nd trunk lid and putting a Sheridan 6 inch spoiler on it to see how that feels too....

Bill P.

I knows and feel his pain. My 13yr old wants all kind of crap on the car we are working on. Try selling them on the Sheridan scca spoiler. easy install and at least its functional.

But it's not just any car. It just makes me cringe when I see people drilling into their cars and doing mods that can't be reversed even if it is to put a Porsche badge on the front hood. I think these cars should be garaged, not driven in the rain, and generally preserved.

Hallowed 914???

Nope, let them get the wing. Waste of time, money, energy, just like we all did at that age. If they really want an ugly one, I'll donate mine. Just have them get me a new f/g trunk lid.

10 years from now you'll be happier with a goofy 914 than goofy kids.

no where in the specs did I see how much down force that the wing creates. It better be bolted on in a strong part of the car. If it is any good it will want to tear its self off at high speed because of the drag it sets up.

Bernie

Now thats a goofy wing!


Geoff

Anthony,
I think we already are past the sanctity of a 914.
L McChes

sell your 914 and buy a 356, you'll fit in just perfect with that crowd


The wing is an easy reversible modification............at least the car is going to be driven and not sheltered for the rest of it's life.

Put the wing on the car if you think it is important to you and your kids. But, no matter how strong you make the mount for it, the trunk is still supported by two cheap little trunk pivot mounts up front and and even cheaper trunk latch. I'm sure these will fail, by the added drag long before the wing falls off the trunk. The spot welds broke on my car real early in it's life. <_<

Why? I think that's a great looking car. Sanctity doesn't mean you never touch the thing. Hell, Brad is a firm believer in the sanctity of the 914 and he loves to cut them up, for the right reason. I understand as a parent you have to pick your battles. If putting the wing on the car means keeping your sons from going to prison or having something pierced then go for it

We could have some serious splinter threads over parenting style on this BBS. I'd like to read more of how people approach this with their kids. It seems most of our members either have grown up kids or toddlers. I'm only aware of a few that are doing the father-son project and I think it's great. I have ideas about the kind of parent I want to be but all that can go out the window when it comes time to apply it.

Back to the topic at hand. I doubt the trunk lid is strong enough without rendering it useless. Here is someone else's method for mounting a rear wing. They had to at least go through the same thought processes to come to this conclusion.

By having 8 spokes on there you have crossed the line in my book.

Wings a very ricey but if thats what your kids want do it!

Geoff

nuf said.

Now you can all mock my rear wing if you like. lol

---- what is this guy the 914 fairy?

I could weld up four holes and grind them out and you'd never know they had been there. Anything made of metal can be made again.

Hey, it's my opinion. No need to point the finger.


I think lots of you don't understand what I'm saying. I have no problem with most mods as long as they actually serve a purpose or improve on the original concept. I love big sixes, GT flares, Raby engines, mueller bearings, big brakes, etc. I even like the V8 cars when done right. I just see a lot of nice cars getting fucked up in odd ways and it makes me cringe to see it.

with Anthony. I don't understand putting things on cars that don't serve a purpose. Like fake shaker hoods, fake side scoops, fake side pipes, fake dual exhausts, neon anything, lighted windshield wipers , ricer wings, fake whale tails on 914s, 20" wheels on a $200 car, stereos that shake so much all you can hear is the trunk rattling itself to pieces....should I go on? This, I believe, is what Anthony also means.

Can't say that I like the way it looks or that I'd want it on my car, however, it will actually have an effect on handling, though it probably won't be all that noticable just driving around on the street. Not all ricer wings are totally ineffective. Even a small wing/splitter/difuser can make a big difference in handling at speed. You'd be suprised at how much downforce even a 'ricer' wing can actually generate at 80mph. And in a 100mph sweeper it can make a big difference. (Even on a front wheel drive car). If you do end up putting it on, I wouldn't take it off for track days (auto-x is different, you're not moving fast enough), I'd use it.

I LIKE that wing on Howards white 914.

A couple of yrs ago at Applebee's, after a Partsheaven swap meet, I showed Rich/HPH
some interesting 914 pics, including a black racecar with that wing on it.
I remember Rich saying that he really liked that wing also, made me feel good that
someone so knowledgable as himself also liked that wing

fwiw

Go Howard - I agree - there is nothing more to add!

I'm with anthony and seanery, don't do it. who is the boss here, you or the kids??

but, if you do give in at least you'll get high resale on ebay someday with it.

WOW! a lot of you guys are make something out of nothing. It's just a spoiler, he's not chopping it up and making one of those funky trikes out of it. When the boy's are done with it and moved out/on, dad can weld up a couple of holes, or replace the trunk lid and everything will be back in balance in the 914 universe. It sounds to me more like a "father and son(s)" bonding thing than anything else, which is WAY more important in the long run than if the 914 looks "ricer" for a couple of years. They're teenagers, they desire the approval of their peers (remember peer pressure?). If they get their "Cheese Cutter Wing" all of their friends will say "Sweet! ", which will boost their ego(s), which will also make them even more popular with the 'ladies' (girls just love a confident guy) which will in turn increase their respect and admiration for dear old dad, the guy that let them do it their way.


Kevin

Appreciate all.
Anthony, Seanery I don't disagree. The project is functionality. Application of theory and measurment of results. I listed this post because, I cannot predict the results. The ta arm for this wing is greatest when mounting on the rear lip of the trunk lid. I wish to know/estimate the downward force generated. I would rather avoid a crumpled trunk lid if possible. Later, the guys can put it on the G pad and define the effect. Is it peer pressure, probably a compoent of that. I have found I can use peer pressure as a teaching oportunity. It is my belief that this method can have a prolonged effect when I am not there.
Geoff, I do not like the looks of gas burners or fuchs. The empi look better to me. Of course, I prefer red wine over white.
Vortrex, appreciate you input. So far, three sons, all in the national honor society, two life scouts and an egale scout. Eldest accepted to Honors/scholars university program. All three small bore expert status in competative matches and one a member of the state high power service rifle team. Attends mass every Sunday and alternate ushers. Still more work to go.
BTW, the orgin of the finger expression is from the English/French wars. French would amputate the middle finger of the captured to eliminate their use of the long bow when released. The English would display the middle finger in rebuff. It seems we have a lot of archers here.
L. McChesney aka Winger

be knowledgeable does not mean you have good taste LOL


L. McChesney,

with those GT flares, I think Panasports would fit the car better than the Empi rims, you get the same "fat-spoke" style, but with rims that are much wider to better utilize the space that the flares give you....just something to ponder

Small bore eh?? .22 or .17?? I've been reading alot about these new .17's coming out such as the .17 Mach II.

Go ahead and do it with the boys. I have a 71 old racer and the time I spend on the car with my boys is worth FAR MORE than any car will ever be My boys come up with some off the wall stuff to do with it but I can talk them out of it but we are talking. That is something my dad and I never got around to doing. But a extra deck lid and put it up for when they snap into reality as to what looks good. Just put it on and enjoy the time with them now before you are "the dumbest guy on earth" to them.

Interesting thread. I can see both sides. I was brought into cars by my father - we still do this hobby together with my bro and have amassed a pretty good collection of restored old sports cars. While I definitely was given the ability to learn from my mistakes, my dad was still more of a teacher/mentor/coach. One thing is for sure, he was my parent first and a friend second. I would not have had it any other way. When it came to cars he was definitely leaning hard toward the CW mentality, especially when it came to anything "vintage". I did what was popular in my day however - a GTI with big Techtonics motor and suspension, body kit, etc. Dad hated that stuff, and I knew it - and in some cases tried to hide it ("no, the car has always sat that low......").
Now we shop together to make sure we have the right wentworth screws to hold the wiring harness in the healy, or the correct grain pattern on the spare tire cover vinyl!
If it were me, being that a 914 will most likely never be uber cool to the highschool crowd, I probably would have done the project with a civic or what ever resonates with that age group. The problem I foresee is having the rice racer look on what may be percieved as a VW by the other young car guys - especially if it is not fast enough in a straight line to hang with them. While not the purpose of a 914, it does seem to be the accepted method of evaluating what a fast car is. Could lead to lots of taunting by peers.

But again, I do see both sides - EXCEPT for one.......
preferring 4 bolt 8 spoke empi knock offs to Fuchs (especially on a flared car)?!?! I thought you were trying to benefit your sons with this project!!!!!!

Everyone has their own opinions on what makes a 914 look good. If this is what you want to do then go for it. This is what makes us all individuals. I have a 93 honda accord wing with the functioning third brake light in it.

This is precicely my oppinion. I hate fake. For example, many mid-range cars have features like "simulated stitching" on the rubber steering wheel. FAKE! It doesn't trick me into feeling like I have a leather MOMO wheel. It insults me! I know it's a rubber covered wheel, and I don't want to pretend that it is something nicer. I will either be satisfied knowing it is what it is, or I'll replace it with something I'm happy with. Another one I hate is fake vents on hoods/fenders. It's fake, and it's an insult. The whole idea of fake bothers me. I like REAL. Either make real vents or no vents at all. Placing fake features on a car says to the world "We couldn't make it good enough, so you'll just have to pretend."

I know that kids will be independent and listen to peers and the marketing machine, but I hope I can instil some values in mine despite the world. I'd try to talk with your sons about what's real and what's fake, and how you can use that money to make a REAL improvement to the car vs. a fake one. I know its just a silly car accessory, but I think it's an opportunity to teach about being what and who you are all the time because you can't trick the world. You'll be seen for what you are regardless of disquise.

I know you don't want your kids out street racing, so this isn't a perfect example, but I saw a very funny episode of an evening news magazing about street racing. The camera crew went out looking for kids racing. They found a crowd of baggy-pants, hat-on-sideways, can't-speak-propper-english teens in riced-out Hondas doing their Saturday night street drags. But one thing stood out from all the wings and neon lights. It was a skinny kid who's pants fit driving an old Ghia. It didn't have 21" wheels or clear tail lights, but it was cool. Why? Because it didn't pretend to be something it wasn't. Oh, and by the way... he kicked their asses. Every one of them. He made them all look like fools. And he was cool. That night everyone who left there knew who was cool and who wasn't, and the skinny kid with the rough-around-the-edges hopped-up Ghia was king. And every poser knew it. And I'm sure that was worth more than all the bling-bling tack-on car accessories in your neighborhood Dairy Queen parking lot.

-Ben M.