I just brought home a 74 2.0 that was last run in 1995.

Supposedly it was running and had a fuel pump problem and it was parked and not touched since.

I'm looking for suggestions as to where to start. I'd like to get a handle on the condition of the engine first so I'm looking for suggestions.

Opinions are be appreciated.

Pics (bad pics) are farther down in this thread.

Ask your bank about a second mortgage.

Check the rust situation first. That's were all the money goes and is the non-negotiable part of a restore. And what you see is probably only 10-20% of what's really there.

Check out the "mepstein build thread" if you want to see how much rust can be hiding in a decent looking car stored in a garage for 21 years. The real juicy stuff starts around post #138 and builds from there. Good luck, Mark

Post pictures here!




Andy

PS:

I think that I should chime in and say that the car is very cool. Bud, I hope you don't mind but I am going to post one of the pics that I took.

Clean out the mice nests/mess and check for wiring damage.....

Remove the rack access panel on the bottom and look for summer homes and skeletons.

If the heater equipment was hooked up and the connection were not chewed through in the engine compartment or cabin, you won't find any of their winter homes.

I fired a car up that had been sitting 20 years. After about 5 mins, someone yelled Fire .... one of the HEs had been open and family built a winter home ... It burned to the ground. I then used an airhose to blow out everything else.

I then pulled the tank, found another resident and home.

Rack boots were chewed along with some wiring.

.... to all y'uns from a former PGHer! .... & still a Steeler & Bucs fan!

OK - a few premises here:
Salted Roads = Rust
Winter/Snow = Rust
PGH Cloud Busters = Rust
ALL 914s ANYWHERE = RUST!!!!

Do a full assessment of the 914 - pull, poke & dig EVERYWHERE you can think of, and then where you can't think of!

Pull Rockers & look at longs outside & pull carpets & seats & look at inner longs & floor pans inside & underneath;

Pull steering rack as noted by Ron/slits & also check for rust on the underbody, especially at the steering rack/crossmember struts & other connection points;

Pull the engine bay firewall pad & look for rust behind on firewall & engine shelf (also on inside of cabin behind pad;

Check battery tray/support, rear longs/engine shelves/suspension consoles/etc. in the hell hole/battery tray area & under engine bay relay board;

Pull of all F&R trunk lids' seals/gaskets & check for rust & also on both trunk floors, around taillights, at F & R bumper bolt connections, at rear tow-hook stud & F horn & foglight connections, inside headlight boxes & drain tubes;

Pull cowl/fender joint seals & check crack for rust, as well as along cowl at windshield trim/frame, wiper shaft insets, washer jets, vent, etc.;

Check door sills, jambs, along the sail-to-rear-fender area along the & under the sail vinyl & bright trim, & along sails' inside/outside & rollbar top/bottom;

Pull outer door seals on the doors & check seal channel & along bottoms of doors, as well as top at windows & mirror(s);

... and then check some more, following the probable water routes from what you find above.

My 914 was rustorated in 1980, driven in SoCal to 5/85 when some gal whacked it in a UCLA parking structure, then stored in my dry SoCal garage clean & non-rusty then, but came out with extensive "new" rust damage when I got back to assess it for repairs/resto! The sheet metal pre-76/77 were not galvanized nor other rust preventative treatment at the factory. FYI - all 914s were built in 75 or earlier, so are just as rust prone as any Porsche, VW, BMW, MBZ or any other car of that 50's-60's-70's era!

Don't try to run the engine until you change out all of the soft lines (high pressure fuel & vacuum hoses), & ditto for the brake lines (calipers & MC may need rebuilds or replacement - MC's new still available, but upgrade to 19mm 914-6/911 ATE is less than 914/4 17mm - so go for the upgrade). Sounds like you'll need a fuel pump, but the OEM Bosch are NLA, so stick with a rebuilt by Bosch & not other companies' rebuilds of the Bosch FP.

BTW - I can't see someone not driving the 914 because it needs a fuel pump - esp.since they were still available new back then for a fairly reasonable price (relatively speaking for Porsche parts). I'm guessing there was more wrong that they didn't want to do.

Also now in the PGH area is "Dr. Evil" the 914 Tranny Wiz on here (transaxle rebuilding - not cross-dressing that is - although the last WCR pix gave us all some doubts! ). He's doing his residency there & lives out in/near Mt Washington IIRC. Find him in the member search & send him a PM. I'm sure he'd like to know another local Teener, & there are a couple of other PGH Teeners on here too (I'm out in SoCal since `63).

Good Luck, then enjoy running the sucker all out in the Alleghenies!!!!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Thanks for all the good input.

It's certainly not rust-free, but it's the least rusted car I looked at. The bottoms of the doors are a little rough and there is a couple of bubbles of rust on the trunk. The rear bumper is rotted and there is some light rust in the battery area.

However, if it were running I would have no problems driving it as is.

I understand the concern that a fuel pump shouldn't have caused this to be parked, but the owner's had some other issues in their life that caused this to be put on the back burner, so that may be the only issue.

It was stored in a split level home's garage so it wasn't out in a barn, but I will look for any nests.

It's still has the fuel injection and most everything else. I really need to compare it to another similiar car to see if I'm missing any thing.

I'll post pics as soon as I figure out how to do so!

How to post pix here -
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=13637

just post alot of pics so we can advise you

The fuel pump cct has been a PITA to a lot of folks so I could see it being a last straw. Car isn't running, park it for the winter, too busy to work on it, life happens, years pass.

Avoid the temptation to just crank it to see if it will start. After sitting that long there is going to be sediment in the fuel system that can really mess up the injectors. Was there still gas in the tank or did it manage to evaporate.

I don't know how much time/money/effort you have to invest in getting it to run. You should be prepared to tear apart a lot of the fuel system. Replace hoses and the filter. Take out the injectors and send them off for cleaning.

DJet is very sensitive to vacuum leaks so you should just bite the bullet and buy a replacement hose kit and and re-plumb the air system. Get all that done then we'll figure out what happened to the fuel pump. Most likely it was just relays but there are a bunch of other electrical things that can go wrong.

SWL - thanks - i am thinking along the same lines. I'm not in a hurry to crank it over and see what's what. I want to do this right. I'm thinking this will be a winter project so I have plenty of time.

My thought is to drop the engine so I can get a good look at the engine bay area and make any repairs or treat any rust spots with por-15.
While the engine is out, I'm looking for suggestions of what to do or not to do. IE, remove the plugs and squirt oil in the pistons and try to turn it by hand, etc..... I'm fairly well versed in mechanical repairs although this is the first air cooled engine that I will be working on.

Obviously draining the fuel tank and cleaning it is an important step. I will likely replace the fuel lines while I have it apart.

Keep the suggestions coming. I'll try to post a couple of pics but the pics I have aren't very good.... more to come when I have time next weekend to get it out into the sunlight.











Much Thanks. Bud

Now you're talking Bud! Any guy who's first reaction is to put her up on jack stands and drop the engine is going to fit in well around here!

What is the VIN number? It looks like it maybe a repainted LE Bumblebee.

It may be a bumblebee, I already sent off for the COA.

VIN is 4742914665

Once I find out for sure, that will determine what my plans will be for paint. I'm fine with it being yellow, but if it's a bee then it's got to go back to being black.

penetrating fluid for a few days should help too in the engine

.......THE VERY FIRST THING to do is to rebuild the ENTIRE fuel system....from the tank to the fuel injectors......everything you restore would be a waste of time ...IF IT BURNS TO THE GROUND from a old ,dried out ,cracked fuel line, fuel rail fitting, etc..........it,s the smart thing to do.

Thanks. - that's exactly the type of info I'm looking for.

To be fully confident I would consider going through the entire brake system. New master, rebuild calipers, new hoses. Probably turn rotors if really rusty. Once you do brakes and fuel system your safe and will probably be done with the car and never have any problems... not. But seriously I'd get it running first to see what all it needs then maybe yank that engine. You can change all the fuel lines in the car with the engine in. Consider replacing the center tunnel lines with stainless lines. Member Chris Foley sells these in the vendor area. Check the condition of the cv boots too. Grease up the rear trunk hinge/rollers.

Great info about the brakes/lines. When I pushed the car on the trailer you could hear the brakes rubbing, but they worked well enough to stop the car when we pushed her into the garage. Also, in the trunk, there are 2 brand new rotors and a box that has an old master cylinder in it.. so, I assume that was replaced at some point in the past.

Before you do ANYTHING, you should sit in the driver's seat and make high revving engine noises while moving the shifter around THEN get to work!

I am absolutely convinced that this is a bumblebee. I say this based on the vin and the paint code. I think the owner will post more info in a little bit.

I would do what others have recommended on thoroughly going through the brakes and fuel system.

As for the engine, personally I would drop the engine, check that the exhaust and headers are clear, and I would go as far as to remove the heads and oil pan and make sure the pistons, valves, push rods, etc. all operate and turn as they should. A co-worker of mine got a '71 911 Targa from storage like this last year. He's been working on it ever since. The engine ran like crap, but he just tried squirting various things into the cylinders to free them up. Car still smoked and ran rough. Finally, about a week ago it threw a rod and punched a hole in the case - engine is ruined. I think he would have been better off just dropping the engine in the first place and going through it a little more thoroughly. So that is my advice to you.

Kirk

All good advice above - don't run the motor until you go through & replace all fuel system lines, etc. - ditto on the brake system.

IMHO - POR15 & similar products just covers up the problems with rust if it hasn't been cut out, converted & replaced with good sheet metal or panels (see Restoration Design for replacement panels). Even if not a Bee, it looks to be in great shape & well worth fixing any rust damage properly to get another 40 years out of her!

See the LE info here - it ma be on the registry -
http://www.bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/

When I bought my '74, it had been 'stored' or parked for 21 years. Here's what I did:

Dropped motor.
Pulled gas tank and cleaned it
New rubber fuel lines everywhere
All four brake calipers to PMB Performance
New stainless brake lines
Turned rotors
New brake pads
New 19mm Master brake cylinder
Replaced ALL hoses on FI system
Injectors rebuilt by Witchhunter
Ignition tune-up
New tranny fluid

Add'l stuff you may not need:
Turned flywheel
new clutch kit
rebuilt CV's

Car fired right up, ran and stop. Plus I'm sure there were quite a few little itmes I'm forgetting. But that's the main stuff for safety.

It's tough to live in the East and not have some rust issue to deal with on a constant basis. I plan on using por15 on any surface rust that I can, but if I run into a bigger issue it will be time to cut and replace.

The CanAm site is the first place I looked. It's not listed there ... not yet anyway.

Thanks.

I am nearing the end of the rustoration of my CA car (they ALL rust if exposed to the elements!), and I agree that proper prep and conversion works best for surface rust / minor pitting and that replacement panels are necessary for rust-through / major pitting. But I don't agree that you'll need to replace EVERY panel that has evidence of rust... these tubs were not galvanized from the factory and I frankly believe that it would be impossible to truly eradicate all rust and/or prevent it completely. There are just too many nooks/crannies/seams to get at it all...

Good luck with your project. In hindsight, I really shoulda started with a cleaner tub.

Geoff

Score, the guy who bought the car is a neighbor Hi neighbor

Hey Doc.

Good to "talk' to you via email. Hope to see you soon.

20 min away with a nice car to start with. There is not one single thing that we can not do to that car: engine, tranz, fuel, brakes, suspension, steering, wiring, environmental controls, etc.

I think I will be able to save you lots of time and $$

I am doing the same thing. Mine was in storage 22 years.
Fuel tank and fuel lines.
Brakes, brake lines and master cylinder.
take cap off from timing hole, above th eflywheel, and stick a clean screwdriver in to see if flywheeel turns easily. Mine did, which tells me pistons and rings were not rusted to the cylinder as I feared.

Sound like fun!

Please don't ...

I'm afraid POR-15 does not work quite as advertised. I had very mixed results and i will NOT use it on my car anymore.
Andy

Can someone point me to the oil pan?

First thing you should do is pull up a deck chair, open a beer and spend a few good minutes just looking at your new purchase!!

Do yourself a favor and spend the money to have the gas tank professionaly boiled and sealed. Do not be surprised if they tell you it has pinholes in it. If they do, get the tank back from them and get it to a competent fabricator/welder to have somepatched made, then take it back to be sealed.

I have a 73 2.0 and it had been stored for quite some time as well, I got the complete hose kit from George at Auto Atlanta, some other gaskets and injector seals, etc., fuel tank reconditioned, new filters,(there is a filter inside the tank sometimes called a sock), bled the brakes a lot til fluid came real clean at each caliper, changed the oil 4 times in the first 2000 miles, new optima battery, played with the idle a lot and am still messing with it! Got new tires, followed all the advice from this group ref rust hunting and have driven over 5000 trouble free miles to date and have thoroughly enjoyed all of them! Welcome to the club! My wife asks when will the car be done, I don't know I just picking away at it, all I know it is getting back to how it was meant to be and I'm not on a deadline.

Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada

Good on ya Doc!

Hey - how's the Residency going? ... which hospital was that - McGee?

Hopefully you found a nice place with good garage space!

Hey Bud, I just noticed you work for the department of transportation

I see your collection of street sinage, and i believe a traffic light too



COOOL

Good Score Bud! I will email you when I get some free time.

Dr. Evil is coming tonight so I should have a little more info to share tomorrow.

There's 62k miles on the odometer and the PO told me that the odometer was working when it was put away.

There were a few extra parts and books on the passenger side floor. Once I removed those parts I realized there isn't any carpet on that side. The metal is black and so clean that I never noticed it wasn't carpet!

I'm anxious to get Mike's opinion.

Just don't let him latch onto your leg!
.... you gotta watch that guy!!



That pic is from the WCR 2010 at this link - lotsa 914 pix here -
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...7029&st=320

Lot's done to the car this past weekend. Gas tank was dry and fairly clean. No mice or evidence of any other small animals. SS heat exchangers was a nice surprise. Still waiting on a COA to confirm the suspicions that this may be a bumblebee.

I didn't take any pics of Dr. Evil but here is proof that he paid me a visit.







Time to get busy cleaning and making a shopping list.

oops, almost forgot the paint code pic....

> I'm looking for suggestions as to where to start.

First thing I'd do is check the spare tire pressure to make sure your windshield washer squirter works properly.

Too Late - the spare tire and washer tank are two of the fews things that I got to remove before the Evil One got his hands on the car.

Send you engine cooling tin and intake runners and intake air plenum and assorted bits to the powdercoater for a great new factory finish!