There was a thread on this not too long ago but I searched and couldn't find it.

I just pulled mine out of a box -- getting ready to work on the car some more -- and I noticed this marking on the back side of the fiberglass. No idea whether he is still in business or still making these parts.

Mike Swanson
AR Concepts
ar_concepts@hotmail.com
(818) 470-5700

So now the trick is to (a) find the right bulbs and (b) figure-out the wiring. Painting and final installation should be the easy part.

A search comes back as this. Maybe someone local can check it out.

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I found info on the bulbs and wiring on the bird board. Project for this week I guess...

I got the lamp assemblies wired-up today and pretty much figured-out everything. I had some trouble sourcing the 18W festoon bulbs locally so I'm going to try LED replacements for the brake lights -- if those work as intended they should be extremely bright and quick to respond. I'm using the smaller 10W bulbs for initial testing.

The other setback is that I just realized my running/parking lights are completely out (no power). They worked last time I fiddled with them to install the euro front turn signal kits, so I bet something came loose up front. It is not a fuse or switch as far as I can tell.

Here are the Hella lamps wired-up. They will plug right into the factory wiring, although I'll have to split the single ground per side into two per side.


911R Hella tail lamps by cjcam, on Flickr

914R



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Whoaaaa, hold on now, lets discuss this more.

That looks good, I like it enough to attempt it in my car, but:

1. Is it streetable? I can see that there is no problem with rear visibility, but what about side visibility? I took my side markers off for flares, so some prevention of side impacts is desirable.

2. Is it easily removable? It looks like it just replaces the original lens, is that correct? I would love to go back easily if I decided I didn't like it.

Do you have more pics? I would like to see inside and some closer shots if you have them.

The look isn't for everybody, but is easily reversible. I'm keeping the stock lamp assemblies in case I or a future owner wants to revert back.

Side visibility should be ok since the lamps protrude a bit. However, it may not be a great plan for a mainly street car.

I like those! Maybe a smallish flush mount led on the side would make it more side visible.

If you add small LED or conventional back up bulbs I see no reason why they wouldn't be street legal. In my opinion the " lense panel " would look better if it is body colored but that is personal preference. I want to do this in the future.

I called and talked with Mike Swanson this afternoon. He still makes the 914 R light fixtures.

$170.00 for the fixtures only. (Left & right side)

The fixtures require a little finessing on the leading edge of the fixture where it wraps into the fender.

- hella lights vary from $45 - $60 EACH (4 total) at various dealers.

- Solid color knock offs are available (solid red or soild amber - no split lenses) for about $25.00 each - depending on the number ordered. (These come from an Australian manufacturer.)

BTW - these are the same fixtures that CAMP 914 offered a while ago. Mike said the limiting factor was the cost of the Hella lights (dollar vs. the euro)

Mike said he might be interested in a group buy...

Since the DMV does not require vehicle safety inspections in California anymore... I'm sure it's "legal"??? CA only cares about smog now Not about safety

While it may not be that important, you need 2 sq in per side of rear facing red flex and 2 in per side of sid efacing red feflex (US spec) I don't think that backup lamps are required in thre US,
mark

Honestly, I think it would take the Highway Patrol way too long to find the violation number in their book to write that one up.

You may come across a newbie with a photographic memory that is just waiting to charge you with a crime, but...

I do believe that our cars are invisible to shitty drivers and the more lighting the better. I can't tell you how many times I have been worried about getting rear ended.

BTW, the picture above of the blue 14 with RS lights is Bitchin!

Found these at Rebel racing product's website. 911 R lenses

Made for a 911 R but the split lenses are used.

My backup lights were not working before anyway, so no loss there

I am thinking of painting the fiberglass housings grey like my numbers and interior. I think that would look better than body color or black, but time will tell. I'll do some "photoshop" experiments once I get a little closer to final installation.

Chris, have you compared the weight of the 'R' assemblies to the original lenses and housings? I assume the factory reason for the 'R' lenses on the 911 was a weight savings, any luck the same applies for our cars? I don't remember seeing pics of 914-6GTs with the lights so maybe the factory stuff is already pretty light.

Fixed it for ya...Calif doesn't really care about smog or whether people on the road actually know how to DRIVE. The gub'mint here just wants our CASH so they can spend it like there's no tomorrow.

Not yet, but I will; however, my unscientific opinion is that there's little to no weight savings. The 914 assemblies are pretty light as it is. Apparently some of the 911 assemblies are significantly heavier -- I saw figures of 3-4 lbs per side savings going with R tail lights versus stock on 911's!

I'm just doing it more for fun and uniqueness than weight, but I will note the weight difference when I get a chance. I have been keeping a weight spreadsheet with all parts removed or replaced on the car lately.

I would be in on a group buy

I got the LED bulbs today, from superbrightleds.com They are festoon-type 12-LED 42mm. I haven't tested them yet but suspect they should work nicely. I'll try to make progress on the installation tomorrow.

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The R tail light assemblies are very cool. Where can I see more pics of that radical blue 914R that Retrotech posted???

So this is one of those projects that is taking much longer than anticipated. I think ALL my projects go that way, LOL.

I found the culprit(s) preventing the running lights from working. One of the connector tabs on the front left assembly had broken-off. Just one of those old car things, probably exacerbated by the stiff suspension and track driving.

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I finished-up the wiring harness prep so it was time to move to the fiberglass housings. They need a little bit of clearance for the outer bulb recess. I suppose you could cut/grind off some of the fiberglass but it is not very thick so I chose to clearance the body sheet metal instead. Air tools make this quick work. Cosmetics not important since the lamp housing covers it up.

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Test fit of the housings before paint. They are now primed and have an initial coat of medium/smoke grey paint so we'll see how that looks tomorrow.

I also have to decide whether to use seals or omit them. This car is not water or windproof in any regard anyway.

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I'm in for a group buy!

Thanks for that link.
I'm building a "911RSR prototype" and those would be perfect.


Of course they are.
Do you think car makers would go to the expense if they were not a DOT requirement?

I have no doubt enforcement is localised and highly variable.
In PA, with annual 'safety' inspections, I'm sure they'd pick up on this, and I expect we'll have to go look through the vehicle code to find the year they were first required when I go get my '53 Coupe inspected (still several years into the future...)

OK, so according to my ultra-precise (not) postal scale, the stock assemblies are about 50oz / 1.4kg with lenses, bulbs, seals etc.

That is per PAIR so yes, they are quite light (no pun intended).

Re. backup lights -- you could use the dual-bulb lamps for both positions to meet this requirement. There are split lenses with half white. However, then you would not have a single dedicated red brake light, so I'm not sure that is viable either. Better may be to use a separate small LED or conventional bulb added to the fiberglass housing.

In California, I don't think there has ever been a documented case of getting pulled over due to reverse lights not working. I'm sure it could happen??? VW had some cool bumper mount backup lights that could be placed under the bumper if needed.

The most likely scenario is when you're being harassed and searched in a suspected DUI stop or at one of those 'checkpoints' that seem to be a more and more common sight around here lately. (Illegal interrogation and search as far as I'm concerned. No different from some of the things I saw in Russia.)

My car is rarely street driven and I'd be dinged on several aspects -- probably get it impounded -- if a LEO really wanted to throw the book at me. I would not have done many of the mods had it been a street car or certainly a daily driver. As if driving an orange car with race numbers and a loud muffler doesn't get enough attention.

Is that a fiberglass rear bumper??

First - not everybody lives in California.
Second - just because it's not widely enforced doesn't mean it can't be. And yes, it'd just be an equipment violation, but it's also one that can be easily seen, and not just when you're reversing. Do you really need to give a cop an(other) excuse to pull you over any time, day or night ?

In PA, you probably wouldn't get pulled over either.
But if they're not working and they oughtta be, you just don't get your annual inspection sticker. And you _can_ get pulled over for driving on nonexistant or expired inspection.

And yes, like emisions requirements in some states (PA and CA among them...), 'historic' plates eliminate the need for annual inspections, but the car still needs to meet the legal requirements of its vintage. Historic plates are not a free pass to do whatever you want. Part of the agreement you sign when you get the plates is that you'll keep the car essentially unaltered from its vintage condition.

And yes, I expect that agreement gets a bit of skirting as well...

I'm not the Lighting Police here - it's your car, it's your life, take the chances you want. On the spectrum of crimes, this one's pretty far down on the 'victimless' scale. So I don't care what decision you make, as long as it's an informed decision.

But I'll also mention this, since in many cases The Insurance Industry is happy to enforce stuff Lawn Forcement can't or won't - they don't need too many excuses to deny a claim (or make your life miserable until you simply drop the issue...) and if you've "knowingly modified your vehicle's lighting not in compliance with the law" - you have created problems for yourself.

I sometimes hang out on one of the Nissan Titan boards, and there are several instances of folks with 'smoked' or "decoratively" covered rear light assemblies who've had claimed denied after being rear-ended. Was it a factor? Probably not. Is the insurance company going to claim "blacked out" brake lights were an essential element? - You betcha.

In my neck of the woods the "Federalies" are hammering any type of Rod, Custom, Muscle or Classic car (they are looking for reasons to support a shiney new helicopter). We are also required to pass a government vehicle inspection that contains quite strict rules about all types of required vehicle lighting. It was stated in a previous post the amount of square inches of lighting surface for tail lights. This value differs from US to Canadian standards but it is in black and white so you should try to meet or exceed this value to save the possible hassle on the road. Also what has not been mentioned is the requirement for a reflector of types (amber front and red rear) and on the sides of vehicles manufactured, oh, after 1963 or so. The reason I mention these items is that they are listed on the inspection form so we pay attention to some seemingly small details.

If you happen to be in the process of painting you vehicle this is one neat thing to think about. These tiny little side markers (they are used as rear clearance lights on some semi trailers so they would be acceptable as side marker lights...I think). check it out here
http://www.truck-lite.com/webapp/wcs/store...atentryId=32153

Here is one thing a '72 Dodge Challenger owner in Winnipeg
http://www.autoclubs.ca/gallery/2008/080907b/img_0054.html had his paint shop do for him. You can't see it in this picture here but what he had them do was mount these lights as flush as possible with the surface of the fender and lay on some stick on reflector around the light after paint but before clear coat. The paint shop then began to build up the clear coat over top of both items so that after he was finished both the reflector and the light were underneath the clear coat giving a smooth topping over the light and reflector. His choice of colors in that area was black so that in the day time you can't even see light or reflector from 5 feet away. Now this is mainly a show car but he does have it plated and drives it to and from the local car shows. If there was a light failure it would be kind of expensive to fix as the clear coat would have to be re-done on the entire fender after the light was replaced. Most of these LED lights are warranted for something like 100,000 hours so unless they take a hit they should last for a very long time. But the same effect could be used without laying clear over top of the light making it a little more daily driver friendly.

Yep, and it has some quickie repair work due to a trailer unloading incident. I have a new one but I'm not terribly happy with it and will probably just fix this one a little better at some point.

Hmmm, where to start? Lets see.......The last time you went thru a DUI check point did they "search" your car? Were you in custody (ie wearing handcuffs, sitting the rear of a police car)? If not then it is not an interrogation. Driving is a priviledge not a right and as such you are subject to more "intrusion" by law enforcement while driving on public roads.

That being said, I think most would do ok with no backup lights. Never heard of someone getting busted for that, though it would probably happen at an annual safety inspection if required where the owner lived.

Yep i'm a cop. Let the flames begin about checkpoints and illegal searches. Fire suit on, I can handle it!

And back OT I really like that style light, keep up the good work.

Jim

Jim,

I don't want to get overly political here, and I certainly appreciate and support our law enforcement personnel; however, being stopped on a public thoroughfare with no suspicion of wrongdoing to be questioned by an officer shining a flashlight into your vehicle and perhaps into your face, and making you late by virtue of the resulting traffic jam, is a violation of civil liberties IMO. That said, drunk drivers are way up high on my shit list so if these tactics work then I'll just...keep avoiding the checkpoints.

Yep I have been cuffed and questioned in the back of a squad car before too, way back when I was a kid, but that's a story for another day.

Anyways, work keeps getting in the way of progress but I finished a reasonable 10-foot rattle can paint job, assembly and installation of one side. I think the grey will look decent and will post a full-car pic soon. Worst case, the way I wired them up, the stock assemblies can be easily swapped back in place in a few minutes.

I will try to do an A/B test of the LED brake light vs. incandescent too -- the LED 'looks' very bright but it's hard to tell unless they're both lit up side-by-side.

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Oh yeah - the tremendous weight savings? Maybe 2lbs...I need a better scale, but clearly it's not much.

No, they care about smog, it's just smog and money go hand in hand. Out of violation (or even the possibility) and it's expensive.

It's against the CVC, and DOT requirements, but on the list of viewable offenses it's down the list: Two working taillights/brakelights is much more important. You also technically need a little light in the corners (which is why the US spec tails had em).

If you were to make the car a more street-able driver, I would mount a rear backup light just in case since you only need one anyways. Other than that, a speciality car that might see one weekend of driving is probably fine.

btw: this looks sweet!

I finally finished this little project today. The wiring, prep & paint, and assembly definitely took a bit more time than I anticipated. Part of it was because I had to chase down some existing electrical gremlins in the front light circuit, and I was fairly anal about the new wiring so I labeled everything and used covered crimp connectors with heat-shrink tubing and so forth.

The fiberglass pieces are a bit rough in terms of fit and finish, I must say, as with many other aftermarket body parts for our cars. They could stand to be be shaped and realigned a bit whenever my car goes in for body and paint work, but I think they're fine for a race car.


914R with "R" tail lights by cjcam, on Flickr


914R by cjcam, on Flickr

Smokin' look! Earlier in your post you mentioned doing a test on which is brighter, the LED or incandescent bulb. Did you notice any difference in brightness between the two? I'm looking to do the same and have already spoken to to Mike about a set and I have my lights on order.


Thanks

Looks cool and goes with the look of your car.

One off-topic question though:
What's with the capped exhaust pipe? Does it make a difference in sound for street driving? Just wondering as I'm about to start a 2.7 conversion myself and I'll be looking at exhausts at some point.

I kinda forgot to do the side-by-side (A/B) tests with the bulbs vs. led's before I screwed the covers on. I will try to do that sometime soon. The LED bulbs are expensive in this form factor so I am curious how much difference is visible.

Yep, it quiets down the exhaust noticeably. This is an "R" type M&K muffler which is very free-flowing and loud, borderline un-streetable when uncapped. (Especially since the County Sheriff station is right around the corner.) The cap came from Ben McFarland, the builder/owner at M&K, although I attached it differently because the clip/clamp he supplied only stayed on for a few minutes.

Cool deal, wonder if you can cap their 'sport' exhaust for a civilized drive around town and uncap it for having some fun. I'll have to keep that company in mind if my wallet allows for it later.

I'm not sure about the sport version but you could email or call Ben McFarland at M&K -- he is typically very responsive and also hangs out on the Pelican boards sometimes.