I took my '70 914 1.7L to the GGR autocross and had a blast. Although my car is slightly underpowered, rides like a 4x4, and the shifter needs some fine adjustment...I felt like the car definitely has potential. I starting looking at the rules on the pca-ggr website and I got a little confused. My car is all stock, no swar bars, etc. but has hard compound tires which puts it into the "Ai" class I believe. What can I do to my car to keep it in this class but make it handle better? For starters, I am pretty sure I can put in some Koni adjustables but I am not sure if I can change the rear springs and if I can I don't know how much...anyone? What about sway bars, what can I run since my car didn't come with any? Any other mods you can suggest to keep it in "Ai"

-Britain

If it is all stock, you should be in class A (Ai is the improved class).

Basically, you aren't allowed much in stock class. You may add factory sway bars, but not aftermarket bars. No spring changes are allowed.

If you are planning on staying in stock (A), you should lower your car, and get some high performance street tires (up to 205 width, and no lower than 50 series). A stock front sway bar will help as well. Good shock absorbers are always good - you are allowed single adjustable shocks. That's about it.

Going to the improved category allows for 140 lb rear springs, aftermarket sway bars, and DOT-R tires.

There is a completely new set of rules being proposed for next year - so don't get too hung up on this years rules. The new rules are not class based, but points based, so you don't have to worry so much about making a single change that puts you into the fire breathing race car category.

Demick

I was told that I am classified as being in the "Ai" class because of the hard compound tires that I am running. Can I not run adjustable shocks if I want to stay in this class?

-Britain

Whoever told you that is wrong. There might be something else that bumps you up, but street tires never move you up a class. Doesn't matter if they are rock hard street tires or high performance street tires.

A is stock class for your car. Only street tires are allowed in that class
Ai is improved class for your car. 'Sticky' tires (DOT-R, not race tires) are allowed in that class.

Single adjustable shocks are allowed in either of those classes.

Demick

Britain.. lets do a rear bar and Koni's. They are single adjustable (rebound) lower/cornerweight. We have rear bars for 75$ and you will need some mounting plates from Engman/rear shock bolts.

We wont install a front bar.

B

You can try it, but I don't think you'll like it. Rear bar with no front bar with otherwise stock suspension goes against all conventional 914 wisdom. Not saying it won't work - but I wouldn't do a rear bar without a front bar.

At least the rear is easy to disconnect.

Demick

I use a stock bar.

From a 76 Turbo. It's the only year they had thru body bars and they're 18mm

Demick,

with the newbies.. I have found they can drive a car that is oversteering once they learn "lift throttle" With the stock rear springs and a rear bar.. my thought is to make it turn in as best as possible and deal with the oversteer.

New theory that is easy to test. I have never been one to "follow" conventional *wisdom*



B

I just think with only a rear bar you will make the car too loose. You are also likely to lift the inside rear tire in the turns and get wheelspin coming out of the turns. With the stock rear springs, I'd either run no bars at all, or both a front and rear bar.

With no bars, the car should be fairly neutral. I rode with Britain last weekend, and while the car is not tail happy, I don't think I'd do anything to free up the rear end any further without compensating for it at the front.

Demick

We will see after the corner weighting and alignment/lowering. I plan to compensate a little with the cross weights.

I'll let you know how it goes.


B

The tires that I am running are 205/50/15 and have a thread wear rating of 60. The rule box says that "A" class tires must have a thread wear of at least 120. Does the thread wear rating go up or down?

-Britain

Brittain, your tires are the Yoko AO32's which are a Dot R tire. If you want, get some Potenza S0-3's or Falken Aziens, which have a treadwear of 200.

Britian - you said you had rock hard street tires. Wear rating of 60 is definitely not rock hard street tire territory - I didn't remember that you had those tires. Anyway, that puts you into Ai. Rear springs up to 140 lbs and adjustable front sway bar is allowed (no torsion bar changes). I'd go ahead with 140 lb rear springs and put in front and rear bars. Then you'll be able to fine tune the setup to your driving style.

Demick

Demick,

can we run a 6 inch wheel ??

Britain.. the Falken Azenis are what I sent Darren and Jason out on as well as Benjamin. They work VERY well. If you want to try them.. we can talk D or J into swapping them out at the next event. I would like to keep you in A.


B

in A class, only 5.5 wheels are allowed.

In Ai, you can use a 6" wheel.

There are very few people who are actually in A or Ai classes, so those classes are not really very competetive. So there is not a problem of getting outclassed or outdriven by moving to Ai.

Like I said before, it looks like the rules will be totally revamped next year, so you shouldn't get too hung up on a specific class for this year.

Demick

Alright...I have made some discoveries and changes on my car.

First, I have now determined that my car has 140lb rear springs and r-compound tires so I am automatically placed in Ai. I also went ahead and swapped out the crappy KYB's rear shock for a set of Bilsteins and I am going to change out the front sometime this week. While I was there, I ended up lowering the car about 3 inches or so and I finally have the wheels tucked nicely. After I change out front shocks and install the bumpsteer kit and I should be good to go for the autocross this weekend. See you all there....

-Britain

Show Mueller a pic so his nose will stop bleeding and his "sea sickness" will go away.


B

Rules, rules,rules.....

I gots me a 22mm sway bar, 22mm torsions and 200# rear springs, with Vracers on 15x7 Wheels. Class-wise, am I phucked?

Chris,

What size motor?

2.0/4

Chris,

Depending on the mods that you have on the car it sounds like you are Bx or Br. Bp allows up to a 15x6 rim with the suspension you have, while Bx/Br allows the 15x7's.

Randal Barrick is running Br so you may want to contact him. I think his car is similar to yours.

When will you be coming out to play?



Bill P.

Will the FI that Chris has cause anyone to cry and protest??

AFAIK, his motor is bone stock, but someone get "bent" due to the FI not being stock............

oh, I'm not "snitching on him" it's in his signature

I think that puts him into Br. One of those two classes allows any fuel delivery system.

You know, the best way to figure this shit out is to RTFR.
http://www.pca-ggr.org/ggrrulebook.html

Whoa... Looks like straight to Fm if you use a different fuel injection system! Though you could argue, if the Kit Carlson setup is still Manifold Pressure Controlled, that it was Bx legal. (Different throttle bodies, air flow meters, venturis, etc., are allowed.)

--DD

Since carbs are allowed at Bx or higher, and his wheels already put him into Bx or higher, I would say that the aftermarket FI system wouldn't cause a problem in any of those classes.

Demick

Note that Bx explicitly lets you change to "dual carburetors". Not "to any fuel delivery system". And, as they always say, if it isn't explicitly allowed...

--DD