Hey everyone, finally got some new wheels, tires and lugnuts on my car. Now i can really drive this thing, but I dont like the way the brakes feel. I can pretty much push the pedal to the floor and the car comes to a gradual stop. They are working ok for slow driving, but i definatly cant get the car to stop in an emergency. The rotors and pads dont look to bad other than rust and dust, so im wondering what i need to do to make the car stop correctly. What should my brake pedal feel like and how should the car stop with stock brakes? Would bleeding the brakes make any difference? Help!
Here are some pics of what she is looking like with the new rims!!
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Full Version: Brakes not stoping car
Sounds as though you don't have the lines bled well, the 914 brakes can be a pain to bleed fully. Also you need to ensure the venting of the rear pads is adjusted correcltly.
Here are a couple articles on adjusting and venting the pads from the Pelican site.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...leed_brakes.htm
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9..._brake_pads.htm
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...leed_brakes.htm
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9..._brake_pads.htm
The pedal should travel 1/4 to 1/3 then you should feel the brakes firmly engage. The pedal shouldn't travel all the way to the floor. If all of the brake pads are good and not worn you may have air in the system or may need a new master cylinder. You can jack up the car and have someone press the brake pedal and check each wheel to make sure each caliper is working.
Good luck,
Jsaum
Good luck,
Jsaum
QUOTE(RonnieJ @ Sep 22 2010, 11:43 AM) 
Sounds as though you don't have the lines bled well, the 914 brakes can be a pain to bleed fully. Also you need to ensure the venting of the rear pads is adjusted correcltly.
venting clearance is critical!
(cool machine)
That's a nice looking car. Please get your brakes fixed before you need them in an emergency. Yours are not working right. When you get them right, you are gonna say " oh my goodness ". Be carefull when you put them to the test, as most other cars will not be able to stop as well.
Tom
Tom
My 914 with the stock brakes stops faster then my Daily Driver with power brakes. When they are set up properly, they work very well.
I agree that it sounds like you need to bleed the system more. Get a power bleeder, or use the long tube method. And make sure that the venting is set on the back brakes.
Zach
I agree that it sounds like you need to bleed the system more. Get a power bleeder, or use the long tube method. And make sure that the venting is set on the back brakes.
Zach
how do your soft brake lines look? They can exacerbate the situation caused by having air in the lines. I'd check them; and if they need replaced, replace. Then bleed. (there is no point in bleeding twice)
QUOTE(RJMII @ Sep 22 2010, 01:00 PM)
how do your soft brake lines look? They can exacerbate the situation caused by having air in the lines. I'd check them; and if they need replaced, replace. Then bleed. (there is no point in bleeding twice)
Thanks for the replys everyone. I will have to look at the soft lines tonight. To clairify, those are the lines running to the caliper from the hardlines right? I wouldnt figure there to be any other soft lines in the system.
I figured something was wrong with my brakes, 4 wheel disks should work really well i woudl think.
check the soft lines (replace them, they're cheap), check the venting clearance, then bleed-bleed-bleed the system. It's a PITA and it seems like you're getting nowhere. But once the system is fully bled out, it's amazing.
QUOTE
To clairify, those are the lines running to the caliper from the hardlines right?
Correct.
If they are in good condition and you want to .... you should be able to lock the tires up with stock tires.
Anything less and you have some work to do
Anything less and you have some work to do
When I replaced my rubber lines they were full of gunk! They were probably 50% occluded with crap... I was seriously shocked! New break fluid and lines made a BIG difference!
QUOTE(bmtrnavsky @ Sep 22 2010, 01:23 PM)
When I replaced my rubber lines they were full of gunk! They were probably 50% occluded with crap... I was seriously shocked! New break fluid and lines made a BIG difference!
All my lines appear to be original, so i just ordered a stainless line kit. Hopefully i dont need a new mastercylinder. I will try the new lines and a good bleed. This car needs to stop. Ill update in a week as to what differences i see. Thanks
Please don't use the stainless flex lines on your car.
Use the rubber flex lines.
If you meant stainless hard lines to replace everything, thats fine, though the green coated steel lines from Napa I find easier to work with.
Zach
Use the rubber flex lines.
If you meant stainless hard lines to replace everything, thats fine, though the green coated steel lines from Napa I find easier to work with.
Zach
QUOTE(brandomc @ Sep 22 2010, 01:51 PM)
i just ordered a stainless line kit
Noooooooooooo ....
Please use new OEM rubber lines.
Andy
QUOTE(brandomc @ Sep 22 2010, 01:51 PM)
QUOTE(bmtrnavsky @ Sep 22 2010, 01:23 PM)
When I replaced my rubber lines they were full of gunk! They were probably 50% occluded with crap... I was seriously shocked! New break fluid and lines made a BIG difference!
All my lines appear to be original, so i just ordered a stainless line kit. Hopefully i dont need a new mastercylinder. I will try the new lines and a good bleed. This car needs to stop. Ill update in a week as to what differences i see. Thanks
I did SS lines, new master cylinder, pads and rotors with a good bleed and it was a BIG difference!
Glazed rotors and cheap pads don't generate much friction. Turning or grinding the rotors and a good set of pads can make a huge difference. This supposes that you have already taken care of the lines and the calipers are in good shape; calipers seem to need rebuilding about every ten years.
QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ Sep 22 2010, 03:08 PM)
Please don't use the stainless flex lines on your car.
Use the rubber flex lines.
If you meant stainless hard lines to replace everything, thats fine, though the green coated steel lines from Napa I find easier to work with.
Zach
Why would i not want to use the stainless flex lines? It says they are better on the pelican site.
QUOTE(brandomc @ Sep 22 2010, 04:06 PM)
QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ Sep 22 2010, 03:08 PM)
Please don't use the stainless flex lines on your car.
Use the rubber flex lines.
If you meant stainless hard lines to replace everything, thats fine, though the green coated steel lines from Napa I find easier to work with.
Zach
Why would i not want to use the stainless flex lines? It says they are better on the pelican site.
I called pelican, and they already sent the lines, but talking to their teck guy he said i would be fine. I ordered the DOT approved Stainless lines which he said are safe for street use unlike the non DOT approved which has the stainless right up against the plastic inner tubing.
QUOTE
Why would i not want to use the stainless flex lines? It says they are better on the pelican site.
Of course it does, they are selling them to you.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=55559
QUOTE
What about braided stainless flex hoses?
These are commonly available, and people like them because they give better feel. Or so they think. The actual feel difference between fresh rubber hoses and braided lines is actually pretty small, and the improvement people note is usually wishful thinking, or they're replacing tired rubber lines with fresh stainless lines. The danger with stainless lines is that they require more maintenance and attention than rubber lines. Stainless lines are a braided covering over a Teflon hose. The braid is usually exposed, and gets dirty. This dirt works itself into the braid and begins chafing the relatively fragile Teflon hose underneath. This most often happens at the ends of the hose, near or under the crimped-on fittings. Given enough time, the Teflon hose will fail, usually with no warning. The result is a brake pedal that goes straight to the floor. If a front line fails, it also means nearly zero stopping power.
Rubber lines also fail over time, usually by swelling internally or cracking externally. This deterioration is slow, however, and there is lots of warning in the form of bad pedal feel and reduced braking, or obvious cracks in the hose. This process can often exist for months, so you have ample warning and time to get the car home and replace the brake hoses.
Stainless hoses are fine for racing use, as racecars are little used and frequently inspected. For a daily driven car, however, you're unlikely to inspect your brake lines nearly often enough, and the failure modes for stainless lines are hard to detect in advance.
QUOTE(brandomc @ Sep 22 2010, 04:06 PM)
Why would i not want to use the stainless flex lines? It says they are better on the pelican site.
no personal experiance, just what i've seen numberous time on this site. unlike o.e. hoses that bulge or crack before total failure, the stainless give no warning and seperate, maybe the new have been improved?
QUOTE(orange914 @ Sep 22 2010, 06:01 PM)
QUOTE(brandomc @ Sep 22 2010, 04:06 PM)
Why would i not want to use the stainless flex lines? It says they are better on the pelican site.
no personal experiance, just what i've seen numberous time on this site. unlike o.e. hoses that bulge or crack before total failure, the stainless give no warning and seperate, maybe the new have been improved?
Pelican sells DOT approved stainless brake lines and non DOT. I spoke with a tech at pelican and he said that the non DOT are dangerous on the street and should only be used on race cars and changed every season. I purchased the DOT approved which the tech guy said were fine because they have the inner plastic line covered with rubber and then the stanless. He said they are still stiffer than the oem lines.
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