Ok, so the guy who totalled my taildragger came by the other night to talk about settling the damages.

I told him that the damage was about 14K (total worth of the car minus what I got for the wreck and some parts that I took off of it). Which I think is a very reasonable amount, since I took the value of the car by what I would have gotten for it if I sold it. If I wanted to replace the exact same car, the amount would have been MUCH higher...

He offers me to pay half of that!
Then he says that from the 7K he feels he ows me, he'll pay 4K in cash
The rest he'll make up for by selling my house (he's a real estate agent)

But hang on, the best thing is yet to come...
Next he tells me that if I don't have enuf money to buy another car, he'll LEND me the money for it
And he tells me he thinks THAT'S a reasonable offer

W T F ???

I told him NO FUCKING WAY. You break it, you pay it, simple as that...

I don't think I've ever been so stupified in my entire life.

This is prolly gonna end in a lawsuit

cheers,

Jeroen

...sounds like a real good real estate agent

Is this where they get the saying "Dutch Treat" or "Going Dutch" from?

Get a lawyer dude and see what your rights are post haste. In other words, Monday morning as I am sure your dad must know someone. I don't know the laws in Holland but here unless there is an agreement before "the friend" drove the car, you are shit out of luck. Thats why no one except Blair has driven my car at the race.

Geoff

Go talk to a lawyer! Usually an initial consultation is free (over here any way). It may even end up that as soon as your R.E. "friend" realizes that you're serious about litigation, he may come around to your way of thinking without having to follow through with the legal process.

He at least sounds like a good negotiator, even though it is not the offer you want to hear.
CCLINREISME

He sounds like a friggin used car saleman.

WOW! The guy didn't just total your car, he launched it into a waterway.

I think your neck is starting to hurt, hurt bad.

I can loan you "Cousin Guido" if you need him!

Sorry if it was mentioned in a previous thread, but what is the deal with insurance over there? In Calif. if the "fault" was clear then you would have gotten a check already...but you still would have to argue over the amount

the accident happened at a AX event if I am not mistaken. My insurance doesn't cover events that have timing, speed involved.
"Yes, it was a Concour event that the gas petal stuck as we arrived and we went into the canal, Honest!"


Geoff

At a recent highend auto auction, the owner of a Lamborghini Countach was demonstrating how the car would start with a remote handheld starter, kind of like the door unlockers, anyway the car started right up, and it was in gear.
The Lambo proceeded 20 feet and rammed the front of an Austin-Healy with the front of the Lambo.
CCLINBARRET-JACKSON

Craig, that sounds like one hell of a gizmo that I don't want or need. I am sure the Lambo owner felt that way when he was writing out the checks....
Geoff

I have one on my truck. Command Start. Works from 500' away. I can warm the truck up in winter and cool it off in summer. Wouldn't have a general driver without one now.

I think from Jeroen's first post of the incident, IIRC, he and said friend were out for a drive. I don't believe it was a track or even autocross event.

Jeroen, I'm really sorry to hear it come to this. It's disappointing when people show their true color sometimes. After hearing his offer, I don't think I'd want him as a friend or a realtor. Like it was only half his fault. I don't mean legally, but more morally. Maybe you were supposed to warn him to steer clear of bodies of water? I mean, HE PHYSICALLY DID THE DAMAGE! Take some responsibility man! Ugh... I really hope it all works out for you. So be it if you lose him as a friend/realtor. At least you can recoup your losses. And a friend like him you need as much as I need a bamboo chute in the eye...

Good luck,

Jen

Jenny is right, this accident happend on a public road.

I actually warned him about the car and specifically told him to take it easy...
Seconds later I'm sitting on the roof of my sinking car

He claims that by letting him drive the car, I took the risc that something like this could happen and therefore he only feels responsible for half the damages.

If I borrow your tools and break 'em, do I only need to pay half of it, because you knew there was a chance I would break them? I don't think so...

I've given him a couple of days to think about it and reconcider.
If he pays the money I feel he owns me, I have no further issues with him, and all is forgotten and forgiven.
If he doesn't, I'll sue him for a shit load more...

cheers,

Jeroen

Ok, I screwed up. He was driving the car on a public road. All bets are off, he pays as he assumed all responsiblity for the car when he took the wheel.
His logic is this then, he let me drive sooo if I hit and kill a child then its half your fault, Jeroen.
Nope, doesn't work that way.

I am suprised that your insurance doesn't cover the accident unless excees speed was involved.

Geoff

Have you given him a written demand? Explain to him in writing how you arrived at your figure so he sees the simple logic of it.

It might be good for the record to memorialize the facts in writing and keep a paper trail. The legal process can be long and details are forgotten. Dates, times places, conversations, photos....

Have a lawyer or the Sheriff deliver the written demand so he gets the hint you are serious...

sometimes letting a friend get his hands on your stuff leads to a new aquaintance. tell him to pay the full ammount and since he ruined your car you will forgive him IF he waves his all of his fees IF you let him sell your house. when his driving started to get out of hand you should have made him stop immediately. if he said "if i break it, i'll buy it", hold him to his word. asshole written in burning gas on the front lawn gets their attention.

kevin

Get a rope and string him up....

I still don't understand why isn't insurance covering the vehicle?

If someone handed me the keys to their vehicle and said by the way, if you crash it you bought it, then I'd pass on the drive.

my guess is that the car was worth more, read money into it/street value, than the insurance was willing to give. sort of like a $12k into it 914-4.

kevin

Maybe, there hasn't been talk about the guy covering what the insurance doesn't. There's only been talk of the guy covering the the total loss.

from what geoff told me of Ya-roons car, it was pretty tricked out.

kevin

tools, boat, lawnmower, anything. you borrow, you break, you buy. the fact that it breaks on your watch makes it your responsibility. suprizing how many people won't borrow things when the rules apply.

kevin

I don't think Jeroen's car is insured for comprehensive. Only collision.

Jen

Jenny got it right again (keep going Jen, and maybe you'll win a prize )
Insurance was for damage to others only.

I figured 17,500 (euro) for the car.
Note, for that money, I can not replace the car.
I could buy another decent 3.2 for it, but mine was pretty "tricked out" as Kevin already mentioned
Why that amount then? That is what I think I would have been able to get for the car if I sold it.
Next, I got 2,500 for the wreck and about 1,000 worth of parts off the car
Leaves a gap of 14,000
So, I think that is a very reasonable suggestion from my side.

I don't need to make money on my friends.
If he'd just pay that, we'd have a beer and all would be forgotten...
No hard feelings, shit happens, blah, blah, blah...

If I have to take this to court, I will claim the car is worth well over 21K and will claim lawyers fees and some other stuff I can come up with...
It won't be a problem to get a written statement from 2 Porsche shops (1 from an independent shop that did the maintenance on the car for the past 7 years and 1 from an official dealer) on the car's value and excellent condition.
I've got all the bills for the car from the past 7 years. Heck, I dumped well over 3K into the suspension alone last autumn.
I will make this value stick.

cheers,

Jeroen

Isn't it nice to know someone's paying attention here?

Jen

I've been paying attention, I promise, but please forgive me if you've covered this...

Did you explain all of the above to the "perp"? Maybe (in addition to everything else) he needs some perspective on what he did and what he's looking at.

It doesn't sound like he is grateful for getting out alive. Some people think all cars are created equally, then they get behind the wheel of a real car and find out they are totally lost. It seems to have happened in this case.

I can verify that it was a very nice tricked out 911. One of the nicest I have been in but I haven't been in too many. It was almost as fast as the 914/6 3.2 that I PPId for a guy on here.
Even Jeroen and I got to ride around in that 924 Turbo Carrera, now that was a scary ride. I don't know what Jeroen was doing but we were always sideways.

I hope this guy comes to his senses because to drive someones nice car is assuming the responsiblity of it. I have turned down driving other cars just because of this, I couldn't afford to fix it if I broke it. JP has offered to let me drive his but I don't think I would because of this.

Geoff

Hey Jeroen, the deal has fallen though on the Rx7 turbo so you want to make a deal??? 330 hp to the rear wheels!

For this very reason I won't let people borrow my truck since it's not insured if they crash it. I drive it so little I just keep basic liability on it and take the risk myself.

this sux dude, I'm sorry to hear it... the guy sounds like he's trying to jerk your chain... you warned him of the risk and told him how to drive the car... the fact you told him this, and he ignored it says that he is the one who is responsible... if he won't listen to reason and accept your offer of 14K... court will have to iron it out... if that's the case, go for all of it, the price to replace the car, as tricked out as it was before... you may not get the full amount requested, but you never know, the judge could completely side with you... it never hurts to try if you have to go to court anyway

Contact HIS auto carrier. Tell them you let him drive it. Tell them the accident was caused by his disregard. Tell them you expect them to pay for the damage to your vehicle. Tell them your filing a liability law suit and they have an obligation to compensate you for his negligence as an injured party. I don't know Dutch law or Dutch insurance but I think I'm on to something.

I think the law over there is much diffrent, it operates like states such as florida, where you can be held responsible for damage done by your stolen car if you left the keys in it. "Neglegant Entrustment"

In most states in the US his policy would extend to a car he was drivng if the car carried no collision.

Yes, Ask an attorney how the law applies in your country. DuckRyder is a claims rep. I am also. I don't know the laws that govern insurance over there. But as DuckRyder confirmed in most states here his coverage should extend to your vehicle if your not carrying collision coverage. Your policy would be first, then his should pick up the slack. Be sure to advise them he was driving wrecklessly against your wishes. This could be considered a criminal act they would have to defend in court. They may not want to fight that battle.


This is a disclaimer: This is not a legal oppinion, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah.....

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the advise, kind words and most of all the opportunity to vent a little (that sure helps!!!).
I'll keep you all posted on what's gonna happen next...

cheers,

Ya-Roon, graphic guru,

I was going to suggest a burning bag of dog shit on the hood of the weasle's car but . . . . .,