possible? who's done it? Are the VW VR6's aircooled or watercooled?
????

Watercooled ...


...

I don't know, but a VR6 is a tall engine.
A GM V8 or subi conversion would the way I would go just because others have done it, new conversion parts are readily available and deals on used parts are out there.

if so compelled - reinvent the wheel - or - call renegade hybrids and do a small block chevy or subaru.

either will produce a smile or two : ))

I went twin turbo mitsubishi... which reminds me, I need to send McMark some more pictures of it.

The engine is also quite long, the v6 2.8 is a much better fit

I would think the Audi motors may be a good candidate for a 6. I think Felix did one if I recall correctly.

Yeah. His is Audi V6 with the Audi/Boxster 5 speed.

If I was blazing trails I'd try a GM Ecotec engine. Lots of go fast parts out there, all aluminum and weighs a mere 250lbs. Many of the beetle baja guys are converting to this engine because it weighs the same as a bug motor.

The VR6 is a mess of an engine for this chassis. Don't get me wrong, it's a brute, but fitting it in this car is a hassle. I'm not sure of anyone who makes a bellhousing adapter or the 914 tranny and even if they did, it pushes the limits of what the tranny can take.

Beyond that, it's TALL and LONG because of the intake and the tranny side timing chain.

I'm working on fitting an Audi 12v V6 and tranny right now. Very similar engine, but there's not a lot of tuning options available for it. The nice part is the tranny was made for the engine so that's a no brainer, output flanges that'll fit the axles on the other hand...

Can't remember the user name but someone here was putting in a supercharged G60 engine.

thanks for the infos guys.. will be sticking with my 1.7 rebuild


but the new vw beetles have room for a 3.2L VR6 with 220 hp???

Yeah, but they have the luxury of stuffin them in with a 15 degree slant and the rear trunk isn't in the way of the transmission end of the head. Besides, the engine compartment on a beatle is quite a bit taller believe it or not.

If you run it at 15 degrees in a teener, you'll corner amazingly to the right, but left handers might get a bit squirrely;)

Don't get me wrong, it'd be an awesome swap especially if you could mate it to an audi transmission. With enough money anything is possible.

BTW, if you pull the smog equiptment off a 12v audi v6 it'll hit 220 as well and comes with a transmission that just fits the engine.

I did a similar swap years ago. Low compression 8v block with a turbo. If you fab your own coolant flange on the tranny side, you don't even have to cut the stock sheet metal on the car.

I've still got the Kennedy kit from that one sitting in the garage if anyone is interested...

And they can produce 300+hp without turbos. Neighbor works for Cheby, says those motors are really tough little bastards to. GM has an entire catalog for upgrades, including the supercharged Cobalt version.

VR6, heavy bulk POS. Why would anyone use a VW engine for anything but scrap and to weigh down the dead bodies. There are millions of better options out there. The Suby is perfect. The chevy is cheap, but the VW is a waste of time. They are junk.

Are you saying the 1.7, 1.8, and 2.0 engines are vw crap too??
I think they are cool! I am sticking with my 1.7!

Wow brett, Not a lot of happy thoughts about VW eh?

Looked at all the spare room in one of those lately? Makes the insides of a full 12 pack look roomy.

The Cap'n

Mueller tired it a few years ago. Search for it on here, I remember a build thread. It created a lot of problems from what I remember seeing. It was the wrong size and orrintation mostly. He had great pic's. I don't think it was ever finished.

Ummm let me ask him, but I will tell you Mueller is now in to his volvo, and we are both looking at the Ecotech right now.

i would like to see pics of a audi V6 swap.

totally off subject... but has anybody done a vanagon diesel swap?

i have a tired 1.7 and have been thinking of more power....

Ah yes. I know many of ya'll will argue up and down, but sorry the T4 is a water pump motor, not a true performance motor. Yes it is better than the MG motor but ir is far from anything phenomenal.





Does it have CEL, then I will hate it. I have an 01 S4 in the shop right now that is so over engineered that I just want to get on an airplane and fly to Germany and stab the first guy I meet named Hans. After the current crop of experiences I have had with VW and Audi lately, I will never own one and will never work on another. They are way over priced junk.

(Yes I know you have one)

Lol,

Over-engineered is an understatement.

I know exactly what your talking about.

Hans pays 30 hours just to R&R the motor on an S4. Tell me that isn't retarded. 20 hours to change turbos. The turbos are a pain in the ass to remove with the engine out of the car. Hans needs to hire a few Lees to help make things better.

20 hours to change a turbo sounds about right...

30 Hours R&R an engine is a bit much... 3 hours to pull the front, then another 3 to pull it....

The benefit of going vw is the audi, passat tranny, which is the same as the 2.5 boxster, based off the 944. The 4 cylinders aren't that heavy my g 60 is about the same as my old type 4.
I know the vr6s are about 100 pounds heavier than a 1.8t and make the best buzz sound. If i wanted to put in a vr, it would have to be with forced induction as well, the vr's love boost. When you have a boosted vr in a regular fwd vw its basically just a highway pull machine, theres just no traction in anything but fourth gear. The vr6 also can bolt up to the audi passat tranny with an adapter plate, the company that makes it put a vr turbo in an old b5 audi a4 and cleaned house at a tuner event making close to 1000hp, they had to tune it down for the track events.

heres some pics of a vr 914 that i found somewhere


now heres my g60



The g 60 fit like a glove, but soon I'll turn it into a hybrid 16v g60.

Are you talking about 034's track A4? Ya, its a bad ass car.... Ever been to their shop(NVM, your in BC)? Their dyno is a LOW reading dyno FYI so that 1k HP number is very reliable... My A4 pulled 255 AWHP on it and turned out a 100mph 1/4 mile MPH.

PS, the white 914 w/ a vr6 is Mueller's...

That G60 looks like a lot of work. did you hook it up to the passat tranny? does that passat tranny fit in the 914 pretty good? looks like it does.

what did you do about the linkage? and do the dogbones hook right up? i would image they do.

and what year(s) passat trannys?

The B5 (1998) and newer passats used the longitudinal FWD tranny. It's shared with the audis from the same period. The bell housing has bolt patterns for almost all the VW/Audi engines with the exception of the VR6 and R32 engines.

The transmission is a no brainer IF you keep an eye out for one with 100mm output flanges. The VW/Audi FWD longitudinal trannies come with three different output flanges ranging from 100mm to 114mm. The 100mm flanges will bolt directly to 911 axles/CVs. Obviously, this requires 911 hubs. I'm currently working with a machine shop on adapters for the larger flanges.

The transmission mounts must be fabricated. Unlike the 914 transmission, they're not integral to the case so this isn't that big a deal.

The linkage is pretty easy too. It's a cable shifter transmission and functionally identical to the tranny in the Boxster. Just grab the cables/shifter out of a boxster and off you go.

That leaves the clutch, it's hydrologic. The slickest solution I've found is the hydrolic pedal set from Willwood.

If you start putting money next to each of these things, you can see it's not tough mechanically, but it ain't cheep either.

Hi Trent,

I have a V8 conversion car that I've been developing for 7 years into a decent track car, so here's my 2 cents:

-ANY conversion will be a HELL of a lot of work, so I just can't see doing it for only 200 - 250 HP. By turbo'ing a 2.0 liter 411 motor would would probably match that performance, for as long as it lasted.

-A turbo'd Subie makes sense: the power is there AND it is a LOW CG motor. I've learned that the 914 was DESIGNED around a LOW CG drive train to limit roll in corners. With any body roll, the rear suspension makes BIG changes in toe-in on the loaded & unloaded wheels (see my posting on the paddock forum on settings for V8 conversions).

-I went with a 383 Chevy to get a 5lbs/HP goal. It goes like HELL, parts are CHEAP and readily available. Summit Racing is where I live. The extra weight has made it very difficult to get to handle well as a track car, but I finally have the solution. If you are just looking for a Cheap, QUICK daily driver, it's the way to go. If you are content with "only" 300 - 350 HP and shift carefully, the 901 trans with take it and are cheap to replace/repair. For my power I HAD to go to a Turbo 930 trans.....and then the $$ start to add up.

-If you decide to go Chevy, I cannot recommend strongly enough to AVOID Renegade: They have NO engineering intelligence, they don't make any of their own parts and there fabricated stuff is junk: their engine support bar BOWS in the middle! Kennedy Engineering, Lancaster, CA are THE PROS when it comes to conversion parts: adapter plate, clutch & clutch disc (when I stopped in, they spent an HOUR talking about clutches, etc:GREAT PEOPLE). I recommend not using the mechanical remote water pump: I use the Meziere electric remote pump that gives you max flow while idling in traffic rather than the slow mechanical. The pricing is about the same for each. For the accessory parts, Desert Hybrids in AZ (http://home.earthlink.net/~adbuch/) is run/owned by an engineer and great guy who makes all his own parts of good quality. He is also willing to spend time with you to help. For a radiator, the Summit Alu Camaro radiator 9" x 31" can't be beat at $180. It "JUST" fits between the headlight boxes. Exhausting out the fenderwells works for modest power applications, but if you live in a hot climate, for the BEST cooling, venting out the top of the hood is THE ANSWER (see my post at Paddock)

-Lastly, expect the project to take a lot of TIME to build up, so be sure you are COMMITTED to take it to the end. I took my car down to the bare chassis, welded in a full rollcage, did body & paint and all the fabrication: it took 26 months. To do a simple "Kit install" should be 6 months to a year, depending on how much you have to do. If you are confident mechanic with lots of tools, especially a wire-feed welder, you will enjoy the project. If you detail questions, I'd be glad to share what I experienced and leave it to you on the decisions.

I hope this helps!
Terry

Rohar,

I've recently gotten my adapters back, and here is what mine look like.
The differing lengths allow me to use equal length axles with Type 4 cv's.
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Terry,

I have to contradict that statement about not seeing the effort for 200-250hp. I think a 200-250HP is a great daily driver 914... Most of the modern 6 conversions are in that range and are great hill climbers! In reality you cant use much above 300HP on the streets in the twisty's as well and you have a big concern of breaking things every time you drive!

This is the one reason why im selling my v8 conversion and going with a 2.8V6 Audi engine.. 200-250hp feels really good in a 914. Very quick, yet predictable and controlable. Also with a VW/Audi gearbox its very strong and shifts so much better than the 901 gearbox.


To be honest reliability is the main reason for me to convert to a modern Audi engine/trani.

Combine this with the easy ability to retrofit A/C and other modern technology's with a modern engine, and you just have a great overall package for a car you can get in and drive whenever you want!

I kinda hate you a lot They look awesome!!!

Mine will be in within the week. Then, maybe, I can make some damned progress!

Hey Andyrew,

Well obviously, we have a difference in "personal preference." I like cars that really move, and you like "modern technology", moderate performance and A/C.

As far as not being able to use 300 HP, all I can do is tell you what Elliot Forbes Robinson told me after I said "you just can't take that corner flat-out." He smiled and responded "well maybe YOU can't take that corner flat-out....." I think 300 HP in a 914 is just when it gets INTERESTING. My car has 500 HP and it REALLY gets your attention!

I think the heart of our different view is that I'm a long time racer (over 30 years) and you are not. While I tend to focus on the challenge of a driver in a good chassis driving on the limits, going for the perfect lap; you tend to think of the practical terms of daily driving and comfort. My car is driven mostly on-track, while your car will be in constant street use. Neither view is right or wrong, just different view points.

I'd love to see photos of your conversion and hope you Love what you have created. I know I sure get a big kick out my toy.

Best,
Terry

does the passat tranny shift better than the 915 trans? its newer technology, i would think so. and does the passat trans require a computer to shift that tranny?

the 901 trans is so ancient. i think a nice shift would make any 914 any engine a dream.

Yeah, comparing the 012 to the 914 tranny is kinda like comparing a tractor to a honda. One shifts like silk, the other is a 914 Honestly, the gold is coming up with a package that allows this tranny to be mated to a type IV.

034 has a shop in Fremont. They just built a bad ass Golf with a turbo Audi in the rear, mid engine style. Wicked cool! My Buddy Nelson Coelho just painted the Golf a metal flake silver. Looks awesome!

Why, toss the type four and kill two birds with one stone.

I havent seen the golf but i've been to 034 a couple of times, Some really bad ass cars come out of that shop.

The trani shifts like a boxster trani, the guts are essentially the same.

I drive one daily (actually I did, till the turbo went), Trani is one of the smoother portions of the car..

Terry,

To be honest, my car was very close to yours, and minus the wings and some of your more dedicated track features (PS, I love you car by the way, We spoke in breif WCC 2005) it was getting to be really close. However I wanted a dedicated autox car, vs track car, and after running my car for a while, then switching over to my A4 quattro, I was forced into the fact that with less time and money, my A4 would be MUCH faster than the 914. As of right now with similar tires, the A4 would probably be 2 seconds faster than the 914 on a 50 second lap. Its ~ 4 seconds faster than my dads track prepped 951...

So I have accepted the fact that the Audi is a better track car, which is what its going to be dedicated to. The 914's chassis just isnt good enough, nor is the power delivery good enough to justify spending the countless 10's of thousands into getting competitive. On the other hand, couple the light weight body, and a properly modified suspension and braking setup with a reliable, smooth, and fun powertrain; and you have an awesome car that you CAN take to the track, autox and have fun, or just drive to work.

I agree our priorities are different, and in my old age ; ) , they have changed.

Thanks for your response, it was very interesting! I guess the Audi has all the benefit of current technology and 4-wheel drive. You didn't mention which engine your Audi has, but I drove my Brother's A4-S4 and it is a Rocket! Actually, you are probably of like minds: he loves the quiet comfort, yet the outstanding performance.

My slalom days were over 30 years ago in Dad's 289 Cobra, but I did drive my first '72 914 in one in the mid-70's. It was completely STOCK and was DOG-slow.
Obviously it takes a lot of mods to make the 914 go fast, so maybe you have a great idea of using the Audi for slaloms and NOT bastardize your 914.
BTW: I tried my 944 S2 on a couple slaloms in the mid-90's and it was hopeless! (the car is really a GT and too long-wheel-based for slaloms)

I've sunk +$20K in my 914 and know I'll be lucky to see 1/2 of them back if I were to sell it. But since it is my last wild toy, it's a choice I made. With all the help from AndyS, the car finally handles great at Willow Springs.

I spoke with a lot of people at the Camarillo WCC in 2005, to help me remember you, can you discribe your 914 to me? BTW: I have that starting problem cured....so embarassing!

Best,
Terry

Terry,

My Audi is a B5 1.8t Quattro Manual w/ the APR stage 3 turbo, pretty much maxed on that turbo. Runs 255awhp on a low reading dyno(Bout 330hp), 0-60 in 4.9, 1/4 mile in 13.5 @ 100mph, but the big thing here is boost response is instantanious, I also pulled a continuous 1.04G's on the skidpad on street tires (I had an autox champion in the pass seat think I had R compounds on it). I actually dont like the quiet comfort of the Audi, and have taken most of that out


My 914 is in my sig, there are some pics in the "old pics of my car" thread from WCR 05.

Primered black, cowl hood, used to have 5 lug fuchs. Im a young guy w/ red hair. Details on the 914 have changed, cant remember them at that time.. Currently it has the following, to make it short..
v8, 350hp 400lbs+ tq, Holley TBFI, magnaflow mufflers, konis, 275lb rear, Nascar front sway bar, Bontempi flares, Engman long chassis kit, rennshifter, seats, harnesses, turbo twist 17's and 18's, 6" ducktail, Mueller roller bearings, 911 front suspension w/ A calipers(iirc), rear vented stocks.

OK then! You are lucky enough to live in a "toy rich" environment! Both cars sound pretty darn good. I hope you still have the V8 914, I think you are on the right track for a good track car.

How would you like to drive Balls-Out for 20 minutes at a time rather than 50 seconds in a Slalom? Then you get 4 more 20 minute session in a single day!
That's why I'm running track-days at Willow Springs.

Best,
Terry

Terry, To be perfectly honest, my favorite events are Autox schools... No I dont need the schools as i've been autoxing regularly for years.. HOWEVER you honestly get as much driving time as you want!! Last time I went I drove for a good 2.5 hours and could have kept going for another 1/2 hour if I wanted to!

I still have the 914 v8, but the v8 is going away in favor of a Audi 2.8 v6 engine and FWD transaxle. Going to swap out the dash/ a/c and all that jazz. Basically retrofit as much of the Audi into the 914 as possible so the car is comfortable to drive anywhere(Think of it as the Neo914 baby sister on a severe budget). No sense in making it a race car as its just not going to be as fun as the Audi A4.