The wife likes the old-school beetle, so i've been thinking about surprising her with one for her birthday in January. Browsing the classifieds it seems like you can get a good driver for pretty short money.

Does anyone own one of these? Which years are the good ones? What to look for when checking one out? We're not going to do anything crazy with it -- she'll just drive it for fun on weekends, or as a DD during the nicer months.

I did some searching on thesamba but didn't immediately find this type of information, so I thought i'd ask around here before digging more.

Thanks!
Rich

Great little cars.

You have to watch out for rust. These cars were not galvanized, and rust like crazy. If you have to choose between a running car that is rusty or a non-running car that has no rust, go with the non-running car.

The engines are DEAD simple to build, and cheap to build as well.

You won't be setting any land speed records in it if it is kept stock.

So long as you stay on the maintenance, they are very reliable cars. Simple machines without much to break.

*edit* HA! I thought I was on NASIOC when I responded to this. You probably already know all the stuff I just said....

Zach

I drove a 72 Super for years , loved it , I do miss Elmo . If I were to get another I'd go with the curved windshield ones ( 73+ ) for better areodianamicks . Great car , easy to maintain , inexpensive , just watch your oil levels , don't lug the engine , keep valves adjusted - easier than 914 , all should be good , and they can be made to look sharp .
My $ .02 ....

Jack / Jaxdream

Supers have a more expensive front end to repair, some have a 50mph shimmy that can be a bitch to sort out. A fresh DP1600 goes along just fine.
We paid off a huge chunk on our mortgage because my wife drove a $1500 71SB to work for many years.

Value wise the SB's are about the lowest, most peeps want a '67 or earlier. Standard beetles have a cheaper to repair front end but lose a bit of trunk space.

I had a 72 with the shimmy and no $ to fix in college. Very scary at freeway speeds. Easy fix.....don't drive on freeway I finally fixed it when I sold it and bought first 914.

Can't speak for your location, but here in Texas I was looking at Beetles/SBs before I bought the 914. It was very much possible to get a rust free running in near perfect condition for around 5k.

In fact I almost bought a convertible Beetle. I could of shipped it to Cali and sold it for almost double the price from what I've read!

I owned a brand new '71 super Beetle (flat windshield) with sunroof and it was a great little car.
With a little exhaust help and good tuneup they run just fine in town and on the freeway. I never experienced any freeway wobble but then again I had 5.5" Chrome steelies with 185s on it...
I have considered finding one and building it up....
Also owned two '67s and I much preferred the '71 for drivability and comfort in stock form.

We had a 74' and loved it. It was pretty much all stock. I really liked the extra room and 'real' windshield/dash of the SB.

Very cool little cars.



I think 73' would be my favorite year for the SB, no bumper shocks (lighter) and cureved windshield.

I drove a 75 for 10 years and absolutely loved it! It was the first year with rack&pinion steering. It is waaaay superior to the earlier SB's with the steering box.

I softened the front springs with cheap redneck spring clamps. It lowered the to-high front end by about an inch and helped the handling. It was great handling car and very nimble with the rack.

The front end shimmy on the supers is almost always the stabilizer bar bushings. The stabilizer actually locates the position of the lower control arm. When the bushings get old and soggy they allow the lower control arm to move back and forth changing the steering geometry which causes the dreaded shimmy. I have repaired dozens of the supers with this same problem. Simple change of the bushings and it is a night and day difference in ride.
JIM

I'm thinking a 73 at least, although i'd like to get one when they started rustproofing the frames...but I think they started doing that after the end of the super beetle (last ones are 74's right?).

I'll keep my eyes peeled in the boston area. I figure 5k should net me a nice ride that's fun around town and cheap to maintain.

Are there any specific areas to check out for rust, like our teeners' hell hole / longs / rear cabin floor?

Replace the front idler arm bushing with a solid bronze one (this is the one that causes the shimmy) and replace the rubber bushings with Urethane and it will be solid and have very good handling.

The other nice thing about SB is that the front brakes are larger than a standard beetle. Not flashy, but darned good cars and they are Y2K compliant.

SB were from '71 thru '79. Standards were available thru '77

I almost rolled one back in high school. That was scary. Drove ok, I just don't think it handled has good as the early ones, but it may have just been that one.

I bought a '72 super convertible for the wife, and I had a '74 back in high school. I'd second the opinion on the '73. The flat windshield bugs can be a bit, erm, claustrophobic, and you can really smack your head on the windshield in a wreck, even while wearing a seat belt. As for rust places, the worst is the floorpan in general, especially right under the battery (which sits under the back seat).

Check the frame horns that support the engine - they run on either side of the transmission. The horns are two stamped pieces welded together along the edge flange - our convertible had split all along those seams and the horns would flex under load. I was following her one day and noticed that as she pulled away from a stop light the exhaust tips would point down towards the ground! If they're split but not rusty just weld 'em up and coat 'em.

Were convertible SBs made?

Indeed there were!

I just found this site, seems like a pretty awesome resource for SBs.

http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/forum/index.php?act=home

"DEAD simple to build"? A LOT more involved than a T4. The cases are even more likely to need MAJOR machine work, and show a marked tendency to crack. The thrust is usually worn out, the spigots are warped, and studs have pulled out. The days of the $500 rebuild have morphed into the $2500 rebuild, and just knowing what needs to be checked requires experience.

Given a choice, I'd opt for a standard beetle any day. Last one was in 77. The SB cabbie went on until 1979. All, beginning in MY 1975, were L-jet, and CA cars had catalysts, as well as EGR.

The Cap'n

Make your plans for NEXT weekend.

http://www.larzanderson.org/Topics/Topic.c...ndarEventId=105

Drive your Karmann made 914 and maybe they'll let you display it on the lawn. If you like VW's, this is their BIG annual event in the Boston area. Maybe one will be for sale or you can network with the owners of SB's.

Don

I had a 72 Super, and it was AWESOME! Plan on replacing the floorpans unless you live someplace very dry!

Sounds cool but a little far from CA.. try a new post for this cool sounding event...

I have had the pleasure of driving a 72 1302 as a daily driver. I live i Norway were we have long cold winters. Traction is amazing, and heating is sufficient down to -15 C, put in a gas heater for short trips during winter. It was my first car, bought in 1984, I drove it about 100000 km for 4 years until the rust was to bad. Spent 3 years welding rust and restoring everything. Rebuilt the engine and made it bigger. Went up from 1300 to 1914 cc and from 44 to 127 bhp. My impression after owning a 72 914 from 1997 as a dayly driver in summer, is that the VW 1302 is a very good car, easy to repair and maintain. All parts cost a fragment to Porsche parts.
About the "shimmy": Inner bushings on the lower link must be replaced with a solid rubber bushing from the later 1303. Early bushings are slotted and therefore to soft, allowing the wheel to start swinging, making the car "wobbly".
The VW is also easyer to replace rusted parts on. Wings bolts on, the body is fixed with 20 - some bolts to the chassis, that means that every part of the body is easy to reach.

I've owned and worked on both incarnations of US super beetles and I've found the following to be true;

1. The SB front suspension is superior to the double semi trailing arm suspension on the Regular beetle in all aspects expect that it isn't as strong, so avoid those cross field and baja excursions. They drive better and can be modified for better handling MUCH easier than the early torsion bar front ends.

2. The later (curved windshield) SB is a little nicer as it has a more modern dash and such, as well as a better Cd (with the same frontal area). PLUS it has a superior rack and pinion steering placement.

3. The 75 and later SB (76 and up were all cabrios) had an L-Jet FI which yields better fuel economy. The power rating is lower than the earlier DP 1600s, but I am told that is mostly due to rating changes, and they felt just as strong and smoother.

4. I prefer the front end of the non-super beetle, but they are all very cute.

5. Parts for T1 VWs are STILL amazingly cheap, even replacement sheet metal. You'll need some.

I hope you get one, I want one now that I don't own any REAL VWs anymore (I think I've had 20 over the years (unless we are counting my 914s))

Good luck!

Don,
Thanks for this. Now that my 914 has brakes again i'm going to drive it to this, which is 6 miles from my house!!

Are you planning on going?

Also, thanks everyone for the replies -- i think i'm going to keep my eyes open for a 73, 74, or 75 non-vert in drivable shape.

I really do not think that a lady would like such a car. Although I love them and have recently contracted to buy one of the last 2003 air cooled beetles from Mexico, the cars are from the 60s and act like them. We are all so used to the 2000s that it is shocking when we actually again drive a beetle after all of these years. The car is claustrophobic with the windshield so close to the face, VASTLY underpowered, hot and uncomfortable in the spring and summer, bad handling and leaning in the turns, have a bad driving position reaching so low for the shifter, are noisy, are blown all over the road by the slightest wind, will not keep up with any interstate crowd, trucks passing right and left, are very very unsafe sitting right next to the thin doors and windshield, and being so old now will need constant maintenance!
As novelties they are great, as daily transportation they are not great.

I'm planning on going. I've only been to the Porschefest and German Car Day over the years. This event used to be just for busses, campers and transportors but it looks like it has now expanded to include all VW's.
Mercedes Day is this Sunday and they are including German cars. If you (meaning anyone) likes cars, Larz Anderson Museum of Transportation has auto lawn events of various marques every weekend all summer. I am told that the VW turnout is one of the largest in NE if the weather is good.

Don

As I said.... I thought I was posting this on a Subaru forum. And the comparison would be towards modern engines. I surf multiple forums in the morning first thing, and was not paying attention.

Zach

But this one just might be the ticket. If you get hungry on the trip, just pull over and snack down!

http://littlerock.craigslist.org/bfs/1908674144.html

Joe

I agree with you George, whenever I get into a beetle these days it reminds me of two things;
1. How old they feel
2. How surprisingly modern Porsches of the similar era feel (especially compared to the US cars of the same era).

I don't agree about the constant maintenance. Almost everything on a beetle is very robust and does not require much maintenance. If you tune up the engine (including valve adjust) every 6 months, the car will go on and on.

SO, it is a cute plaything for around town zipping, like a 2CV, but if you want something for serious driving go 30 yrs later.

Either way, find something she enjoys and be happy! Life is short!

I am always amazed (dismayed) at people's inability to spell, or perhaps, proofread ads.

"This is a toe Car."

I read that 3 times to figure out what they meant. I guess they mean it must be TOWED.

Buddy of mine has the coolest 2003 totally stock Mexi-Bug he bought brand new. It has 15k kilometers on it as of this year. I've put at least 10k of that myself on the bug.

I love it!

One of the coolest cars out there. Very clean, simple, 40mpg easy.

I keep trying to buy it from him, but he's stuck on letting it sit...........and sit.........and sit.

'74 1303 S




It's got the 50HP engine, the slanted windshield with a real dashboard and the good suspension.

Rust will be your biggest enemy (Sounds familiar?) ...

Andy

My dad had a '73 in '73.

I've got the perfect super fo you.. Zero rust, upgraded brakes and suspension and it's very clean.
I love to drive supers, my wife's super vert drives, handles and stops a well as my 912 and has plenty of power.

The super is a 73/1303

I had a 72 sb since 83, I got it to fix up for me and my oldest son now has it as it was his in 85 but I took it away from him for drinking. It has about 60k on the motor and tranny. The heads have never been off. I resealed the motor and put in the adjustable pushrods with new seals, added a new svda dist and a carb kit with a better exhaust when we recently redid it. He rolled his first 72 sb in about 84 it had this same motor and tranny in it. We restored this second one about two years ago. It had ac but I didn't re-install it when we went back together. It's his sunday afternoon toy now.

There was a place in Colorado that does new reconditioned bugs for about 20k. They take them back on trades and clean them up and resell those for about 10k.

They are around...we have 4 here.
I am building a 64 right now.
I DO NOT agree with George...he is spoiled.

Awesome car, great little box to have some fun with.
Look long and hard at the underneath of the front end for rust on the frame head...
The rest of the rust is typical of any beetle...floors, under the battery...heater boxes...rockers...all of it.

Buy a decent one, shipping is still under 1k so you can hunt down a beaty and ship it here.

Rich

I had a 67 bug that I put a 67 912 1.8 motor with dual Webbers. With the lower gearing on the bug made that thing move!!!! Loved it!

I have a '72 SB (1302) and a '67. Though many within the air-cooled VW community would value the '67 far above a SB, I prefer the driveability of the SB. Many consider the '67 the last collectable year. This changes as time marches on. Many are only interested in the Super. (Check out the "German Look" - Supers with Porsche big discs on all corners, Porches gearbox and a large Type IV motor.) There are great resources out there - books and web. Let me know and I can dig up my list. Cost of parts and the availability of parts is better with a Super.

The '72 has been in the family since my father-in-law bought it off of the original owner in '77. Two engine rebuilds - simple stuff. Watch out for heater channel rust - a major job.

You have what I am looking for a 1973 2.0L FI 914. I have just recently begun my search for my first 914. I presume that you very much like the car.

Helpful people out there in the air-cooled VeeDub community. Let me know if I can assist. Good luck. Nothing much finer than driving a rear engine rear wheel drive car. Oh, okay, perhaps a mid-engine rear wheel drive 914.

The super with its MacStrut front and IRS rear has far superior handling potential than the stoneage earlier bugs with the trailing link front and swing axle rear. Drove both and loved both, but the difference in out all out performance driving is enormous!

My 75 super was also very tough and did not at all live up to the delicate myth. True it is not as stong as the old trailing link front, but damn! It doesn't need to be unless you plan to go airborne with it. I body slammed a curb with it one night and it didn't loose the alignment. Ten years of hard driving and it never lost alignment. It was a great tough car. I cried when it got totalled by an idiot 16yearold.

I was just commenting about the constant maintenance from the standpoint that the car is now so old so things will break more frequently than on newer cars. Also these days we are so used to maintenance free cars that any at all seems like too much!!!! (ten thousand mile oil changes on a new Porsche CAyenne????

I agree on the comment that the old Porsches feel like modern cars in comparison to the other cars of their day. My 356 models I would drive anywhere but NOT a triumph jag or mg of the era or for that matter an old 64 Buick Riviera!!!!! (you all know I still own our original family 64 my Dad and I purchased new in may of 64!!!)

Don't get me wrong.... I LOVE the beetles. I had had several mexican air cooled b eetles new until they were discontinued in 2003 and right now am contracting to get a brand new left over special edition bug sent to me from Mexico City.

Maybe you should have your wife drive one for a few days and see how she likes it. Maybe the cuteness will wear off quickly for the lady!!!!!

I guess from the doctors point of view no one in there right mind should buy or restore a 914...just not worth it.

Had a 73.Bulletproof motor!Drove it when I was 16-18 yrs old and thumped on the poor old car pretty good.That was in 89-91,and I still see my old texas yellow super beetle cruisin around to this day!

Why so negative? Did you read what I wrote??

The Beetle was a great car "back i the day" and is still highly restorable and fun. The 914 "back in the day" was a great car and because it was so ahead of its time, can still be reliably and comfortable driven on a daily basis, just like a 356. The rage is to restore all of the unique air cooled cars no matter what they are even the rare 411!!!

I will agree with you though Mark by saying that in this economy, one can buy a near perfect 914 or bug for a fraction of what it would cost to restore!!!!! SO 914 restoration is "just not worth it" unless you are umbilically tied to the car

I love the Superbeetles. Curved windshield, large front trunk, more room inside for the drivers.

Having the windshield out of the way meant a lot to a guy who has a chin dimple carved out by an in-yer face flat VW windshield

Bought one new in 1973 and it was the best most reliable car I ever owned. Lasted for 25 years, ran for 250000 miles on the original engine without a rebuild, and cost me $2525 tax, tag, title, and options at the dealer.

Only things that ever crapped out were the distributor (weight through the side) and a generator. Other than that, it was change the oil and adjust the valves religiously (Same as a teener George!). Did shocks once just because they had 125k on them, replaced a couple of mufflers, and a replaced the clutch (once). Well, more like 3 times for the clutch. The 2 rebuilt clutches were crap, the new factory one was great.

Car lived in the salt air near the Florida beach and rusted WAAAYYYY less than the modern cars.

That car taught me the difference between quality and durability. Quality means runs right out of the box, durability means lasts long. Compared to the POS highly rated high quality HONDUH ACCORD, the Superbeetle had the durability of fine china, the HONDUH had the durability of a paper plate. When the much more rusty POS 1978 Honduh crapped at 70k, the Superbeetle kept on going and almost never required maitenance.

Problem areas- rusted around the curved air intake behind the quarter windows. Foam sprayed between the outer body and the inner pannels caused rust from the inside. Not sure if salt wicked there or the foam eats the metal over time. Fan box- fan is supported by 4 rubber bungee cords that deteriorate.

Wierd things- in snowy weather, old heater systems may not produce enough heat. For a CSOB like me with a sagging fan and original 250K heater boxes, it meant driving with one hand on the wheel, and the ice scraper in the other. In other words, heaters may need going through.

Great crash protection from frontal crashes. Saw one rearend a car at 45. The bumpers absorbed energy and collapsed back to the body. The body began absorbing energy and crumpled back to the horizontal spare in the front. The front spare acted like a gigantic rubber bladder and absorbed a ton of impact, and the rear of the spare tire cup bent in a little into the trailing arm area. Thought it was my wife- car was right color and at the end of her dad's street. Driver got out and was unhurt. Breathed a big sigh of releif when the guy got out of the car didn't look like my 105 pound red headed woman.

Ken

My Wife and I have a 72 SB, she drive it 55 mi. a day to and from work all wear round I rebuilt the motor two years ago and it’s been a great car for us , rust look behind the rear side windows around the vents, behind the front tires where the water hits the inner fenders, also just between the doors and rear fenders, if the floors have rust in them look real good at the heater channels hope this helps

As usual I totally disagree with the source from aa. He has no more knowledge of The Super Beetle than he does whats on the shelf in his stock.
This was my DD till I quite work.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...672&hl=NARB

Joe,
i think George made some good points, especially about safety. But, Abbie mostly drives around town to get groceries or to the train station to commute into Boston for work, so issues on the freeway aren't such a big concern for us.

In any event we will keep the accord, with ABS, 55 air bags, crumple zones, air conditioning, etc, for longer trips and to shuttle little ones around.

I'm definitely going to get one, just a question of when and for how much! you could say i've been bitten by the BUG!! (har har)