I'm building a 2056 with a webcam 86 grind, what do you guys recommend for carbs?

EMPI - I've heard the new ones are pretty good, but more initial $$$

Dells - Seem the most common on the teeners, but generally require rebuilding

Webers - webers are webers - probably highest 'cool' factor, but are you just paying for the name? most likely require a rebuild as well.

thanks
Brett

Webers for parts availability and tunability.

If you could find SK Racing Carbs, they use all Weber parts.

Dells ... propaganda says they're better than Webers, but don't know parts availability.

EMPI ... know nothing other than EMPI is not what EMPI used to be.

All that said, I am a FI guy ... carbs suck!

Weber Weber Weber. The empi carbs are just about as expensive as the webers but cheaply made in comparison. The delortos have suffered for years from their cheap quality

Empi bought Weber so all the new Weber carbs are empi.
Be careful of the rebuild kits by cb performance, and prbably the empi ones also.
If I were to rebuild my dells again, I would order everything from dellorto uk as they stock the original INC jets, needle valves (cb's are useless).
Ther are cool parts available for webers, though, like berg glass ball inlet valves, which are nla for dells.
I've only run little 34ict's as far as webers. -they kind of sucked and were constantly needing adjustment. My Dellortos are solid and stay where I put them. Obviously you'd want to compare weber 40's or 44's.
You definitely want dual barrel duals; IDF's (edit: or is it IDA's ) or the drla's.

I thought Weber was owned by Magneti Marelli?

Yes, if I choose weber it would be 40 or 44 IDFs, IDAs are for racing.

Brett

Research shows this to be correct. I was thinking of how they licensed empi to make their hpmx carbs which are virtually identical in casting to the spanish- made webers, but with seriously compromised quality control

Here's a little description of the confusion
http://genuineweber.blogspot.com/

Gene Berg is another option. They use the Weber design.
http://www.geneberg.com/product_info.php?c...products_id=848

Pretty much run like hell from anything that has the Empi name on it.

propaganda aside, the actual experience I have with carbs is that Dells have 5 progresion holes vs webers 3. dells have better smoother progresion from idle and mid rpm to mid/ hi rpm. Dells are easier to drive daily in traffic and what not. Dells have ball bearing catriges on teh shafts with an o-ring seal. webers often leak at the worn out shaft bushing causing inconsistent tuning. Weber parts are easier to find.
I have only touched 2 pairs of empi HDMX china specials. all 4 carbs wept from the castings. 2 carbs had some type of intermal leaks that made tuning more exciting than a bayou mud dance

Dell'Ortos rule! Forget about the BS about no availability of parts- they are very common in Italy. You just have to think outside the box.

Supplier in AZ:
http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/produc...roducts_id=4069

Suppier in the UK:
http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merchandise/prod...artsectionID=53

Not true with the HPMX carbs.. Out of the box new Webers and the HPMX EMPI carbs both have issues, the difference is the HPMX carbs have issues that are easy to overcome.. The weber issues are in their castings and can't be repaired generally.

I have been using the HPMX carbs exclusively since 2007 with excellent results. By the time we modify them they end up costing MORE than a set of new webers, but thats fine.. In 2007 I tested 20 pair of new weber carbs, we had a 70% failure rate from those tested, 50% of them had porous castings that dumped fuel when the engine was warmed up, after it had been shut down.

I have compared the two back to back on the same engine no less than a dozen times, I'll post some dyno graphs tomorrow. The BSFC values were better with the HPMX carbs, AFR was more stable and progression was smoother.

Don't expect to bolt ANY of them on to an engine without modifying them off the shelf. Float heights, loose components, butterflies that aren't aligned and tons of other issues are the reality. if you buy a new set of HPMX carbs, or new Webers have them shipped immediately to Art Thraen before you even install them. Art will make them the way they should be and they'll install like a swiss watch. If the carbs have issues Art will identify these and save you lots of hassles.

This is what we do... I have had two bad sets of HPMX carbs since 2007, they run so good that Blake had them authorized for use in SCCA E and F production engines and he'll be running a set next year in E Prod.

Dells... Dells are the cats ass, I run them on every carbureted car that I own, mainly because I can tune them to perfection and love the progression circuits. No HPMX or Weber compares with a Dell..

wasnt the late Gene Berg adding progression holes to webers? I know he did modify those weber DCNF for type 1 use. he drilled extra holes in them and I installed a set of Gene burg mod dcnf on a squareback 1835cc. it ran strong, smooth. It was a commuter from SD to LA. I think they were Ferrari or Fiat carbs.
I am wondering if he did any IDF progresion mods?

That was on the IDA only.. Art still does those today and others too, they are required of you want to street a set of IDAs at all.

The IDF has no possibilities for more to be added due to design.. The Dellorto has 5 from the factory and transitions as smooth as glass.

......IN this discussion , about carburators, EVERYONE left out SOLEX 40-p11, and SOLEX 44-p11......the solex 40-p11s were used in super-vee,(type-4-engine)....the solex 40-p-11 and 44-p-11 were used on various displacements of the FOUR cam carrera engine, including the last ideration of the 904..(for street use). weber Ida 46,s were used for racing.(I think)......solex 40-p11,s have been used in E-production 356 porsches forever....They came as standard equipment on the S-90, the SC , and 912, until the end of the 356/912 engine design use in porsches.....These carburators are still available, as well as parts., they have a smooth transition thru all the rpm ranges. the float level is externally adjustable., the jets are accessed in the side of the carb body.(no need to remove the air cleaner to change jets)...they DO NOT have ball bearing throttle shafts. New bushings and repairs can be made with bronze bushings...I do have 40 years experence with these carburators and like them. they also have 3 Three seperate circuits...Idle, transition(acceleration) and high speed), as well as a high speed enrichment circuit. All three circuits have jets for tuning................Murray.

Thanks for all response guys...

Brett

The solexes would be great if they weren't 50 years old... IMHO they are also too adjustable for the typical modern enthusiast.

40 years ago things were a lot different.

Jake, how do I get in touch with Art Thraen for the EMPI tuning?

There's this neat thing called google.....it does work.

I agree... The smoother transition from idle to throttle makes the Dells my choice.

(Source of second quote)

Uh, so which is it? I'm a little concerned because the AA set with EMPI 40 IDF's is being installed on my 914 this week. I'm confident that it'll be an improvement over the Weber Progressive on there when I bought the car, but it's a little disconcerting to hear these two seemingly contradictory statements from the same authority.

Hey Flip, we are local to one another and have spoke once or twice via the board. I have italian 40IDF's on my 2L and even when the garbage crosslink is out of sync, the car still starts, runs and drives so as not to leave me stranded. I would imagine any quality issues with your new set might be similar to wear that has occured to my 30+ year old set. Its all fixable according to Jake, I would take his word over a retailer.