Read a short blurb in the AM paper, then found this story on the web:

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?...815&catid=8

That sucks

But you just forced me to find a super cool website. Check it out.

It lists all gas stations in every state E Free

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=PA

Is there anything that can be added to the gasoline to fight the ethanol effects? I have 2x 2-cycle jet skis, carbed 914, and soon to be carbed 911 and all are the worse to run ethanol in. And no ethanol free gas in Houston that I know of.

I run marine sta-bil in the 911.

I may have to check out the gas at Erie airport from that link, and research if 91 av gas will work in my 911.

Ferg

Well your cylinder temps should come down a little as the alcohol burns cooler. Most EFI systems can compensate for 15% easily. Some carbs may need slightly bigger jets. 2 strokes will need a little more oil in the mix but not to much. Most newer boats are 4 stroke EFI engines. They should have no problem adapting.

The big issue, gas milage. Gas milage will go down as alcohol levels increase.

I've read otherwise, the engine runs hotter. Who's right?

Also that the ethanol chews up rubber, so the gaskets in carbs might decay a little quicker. And on the EFI, it can clog the injectors?

Both of you are.

The ideal compression and advance for ethanol is a little different then gas. Alcohol can take more compression then gas can before it causes knock.

Just like a gas engine can run hot if it is too far advanced AND if it is too far retarded, an engine with a very mild gas based tune may run hot on ethanol as it is too far out of tune. On the other hand, an engine with a very aggressive tune might melt with gas, but operate just fine with ethanol.

At the last AX I was at, there was a subaru impreza fighting for TTOD versus formula ford carts. He was running a tune that required e85 to keep the engine from melting. His egie was built with e85 in mind, and he was wicked fast with it.

Zach

It can also handle more BOOST; which is perfect for my twin turbo setup.

They will also charge more $$$ per gallon for the priviledge of traveling a shorter distance.

A lot of boats have F/G gas tanks that the Alcohol starts eating

This is what I'm concerned about--not just with the 914 either, as I'm currently running two mid-80s cars with CIS (and turbos).

I guess I'm a little less worried since I rad that the gas stations will have to put in separate tanks and pumps to handle the E-15 fuel--and I don't see any doing that in the near term.

That said, I can also see this as just one more step in getting older cars off the road--with no regard for the collector/hobbyist . . .

I used to install these tanks and pumps. E15 does not require special tanks or pumps. E85 requires special pumps but not special tanks. All undergraond fuel tanks are either steel or fiberglas, both can withstand alcohol. E85 will eat through brass. E85 components (pumps, valves, solenoids) must be made from stainless steel

Many stations have up to 10% alcohol now (Union 76). An extra 5% won't really matter much. Yes the alcohol is a better solvent and attracts moisture. I don't think we will notice it much unless you are driving a 2 stroke.

CUT OUT the Politics Crap before you get an otherwise informative thread locked down

I'm not going to touch that political name calling...


regarding AV gas
its not the solution to all of the problems
it shouldn't have the alcohol
but it does have lots of other fillers (preservatives) to help it meet the demands of aviation.

it is better at being stored
it is more consistent
and it will handle the colder temperatures of altitude

however.....
those additives (that do some good things like helping the fuel not break down over winter storage)... those additives also take up space, and the fuel in total produces less energy per volume. On a race car, you have to change your jetting or mixture to richen up a motor on AV gas.

2nd problem, the av gas is called "low lead" but it does have lead and will hurt oxy-sensors.

a modern fuel injection car may be able to compensate its flow rates and adjust its air-fuel ratios to handle av gas...

an older car may need to be rejetted so as to not hurt the motor and get as much power as possible when using AV gas.

AV gas solves some of our problems but also creates some new ones.

All the gas in Texas is already at 10% alcohol now and has been for the last two years. I go to the Dollar Store and buy octane booster for a $1 and add a bottle to every fill up in the car and truck. It has keep the valves from clattering going and IMPROVED the gas mileage 1-2 mpg per gallon. Vehicles seem to run a lot better.

Expect a lot of MPS that need to be adjusted along with a lot of carbs that need re-jetting for the altered fuel content. Pay attention to your engine, it's tune will change.

Most 914's are on jackstands so E15 won't have any ill effect. Nor will we need to put $10 gallons of gas in our cars since the gas tank is missing anyway.

All of the political posts in this thread are about to be deleted. If any of you that have already posted political junk in this thread do it again, I'll give you a some time off from the site. Go read and abide by the few rules that we have here. Also, if yours is one of the posts that was deleted for political content, don't come whining about it because I don't want to hear it. Frankly I've got better things to do than babysit the same people all the time.

Regarding the actual thread topic, they reported on the news that the E15 pumps would be clearly labeled. They also said that it couldn't be used in vehicles older than 2004. Kinda led me to believe that it would only be available in limited quantities and that normal 10% would still remain available. That true?

I let my car sit over the winter with gas in it.I didn't put Stabilt in it.The valves stuck in the heads and the engine broke a rocker from stuck valves.Low mielage car the machine shop said it was from ethenol.It breaks down and turns to maple syrup in ur heads and carbs.
The machine shop said it's been more frequent the last 2 or 3 years in flat tappet engines.It wouldn't surprise me if some engine guru's start mandating ethanol free gas for their engines.

That's what happened to my mustangs engine a few years ago. I ended up putting in a newer 302 in it built to run the new gas. It can also burn up your valves from what the guy at my machine shop told me.

I bought a bottle of Sta-bil at my FLAPS today. Never used the stuff before - can somebody give me some pointers? I use E10 as that's what all the local stations have.

I plan to drive occasionally during the winter as weather (and road salt) permits, and probably to run the engine once every couple weeks when I can't drive.

Do you need to run the engine for a while after adding Sta-Bil to get the effects into the engine components? Is there any harm to adding it to every tank of gas, not knowing how long my car may sit between driving days?

Measure and dump the appropriate amount for 16 gallons into the tank just before you fill it up for the last time of the season. Drive the car home and leave it for the winter so long as you drove it a bit to get it completely warmed up before your fill-up.

I've never really understood starting a car intermittantly in the wintertime just to make sure it works. Starting a cold engine more often just puts it through more heat cycles, more wear on mechanical components and adds moisture so that your exhaust will rust out faster. At least that's my understanding, so I don't do it.

This is one of the things I've done with my car when putting it away for the winter for the last 13 years, and I have not had any problems come springtime.

I've started putting in almost 2oz of STA-BIL when filling up the Carrera. MPG is about the same. I've been hesitant to add octane booster because I'm not sure how it would interact with the STABIL. I put about 1/4oz of STA-BIL in the bike's gas tank when I fill up. Doesn't hurt MPG on that either.

I do not recommend Octaine boost unless your car is driven daily. Octaine boost will clog jets, needle valves and injectors if left in the fuel system too long. You only need higher octaine if you have pre-ignition problems. You may also be able to cure pre-ignition by installing spark plugs 1 heat range lower that you have now. Just don't go so low to cause fouling. On a correctly tuned engine, the added alcohol should reduce combustion chamber temps slightly reducing the need for octaine booster anyway.