I want to buy a fuel cell.

It says that it has:

10AN Male inlet
8AN Male rollover
8AN Male return

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/15551/10002/-1

When I try to lookup AN fittings vs. fuel line size I find:

-3AN - 3/8" ID
-4AN - 7/16" ID
-6AN - 9/16" ID
-8AN - 3/4" ID
-10AN - 7/8" ID

So .... are they saying I need fuel lines that are 3/4" ID?????

That is ridiculous. I have a coil of braided stainless hose that is ~5/16 ID.
It seems like the logical size for fuel line, so that seems like -3AN to me.

Why would the fuel lines be so large from the fuel cell?

Seems like a lot of expensive adapters for two tiny lines through my tunnel.



Any help would be good.
I must be missing something ......


And I suppose the "10AN Inlet" is for the feed to the fuel pump/pressure-regulator and the "8AN return" is the dump line back from the pressure reg.?


Stu

AN sizing is pretty straightforward: take the number preceding AN, and divide by 16. For example, 8AN is a 1/2" inside diameter hose or fitting.

The AN sizes you cross referenced are wrong. As already stated just divide by 16. Example, your 5/16 roll of hose is -5 AN.

And, you posted a link to just the cap assembly. If you look at the actual fuel cells listed by Jegs, most have a -8 AN outlet which is 1/2 inch (8/16).

Curious, why do you want a fuel cell?

Thanks for that!

It makes sense now (never trust a quick web search).

So should I run 8-AN (1/2" ID steel braided hose) through my tunnel, or convert the AN fitting to stainless flare before going through?

I plan on moving the fuel pump to the front since I removed the tank, but I still need two lines from the tank to the engine bay for the pressure regulator, right?


"Curious, why do you want a fuel cell?"

Vintage racing (SCCA rules)

Stu

I'm not sure I can answer your question, but I thought I would point out... Chris at Tangerine Racing sells stainless steel tunnel lines and has an option to weld AN fittings on them.

http://www.tangerineracing.com/stainlessFuelLines.htm


I asked about the fuel cell because my project car came with a brand new Fuel Safe and I'm on the fence about its future. (I'm not trying to sell it, just curious what your motivation was).

-6 will flow all the fuel you will ever need, and the smaller hose and fittings will be lighter and cheaper as well. There are reducing adapters available.

For all questions like this, check out the information on the Earl's website, remembering that the are now a Holley company.

....Unless you are running fuel injection....you will only need ONE fuel line to the pressure regulator,( and from there to each carburator)...... As with any fuel injection system, there will need to be a RETURN line back to the fuel tank. look at the OEM fuel injection system,and run your "earls" or "aero-quip" back to the fuel tank from that point.........I agree that -6 will flow all the fuel needed., and many types /angles/ bulkhead/ reducer/fittings are available to assist in a perfect installation.

-6AN will be fine. I'm using it for my return line. But I used -8AN for the feed line.

A stock 993 motor uses a line ID that's very close to -8AN. Fuel line size is based on flow required by the horsepower requirements. That's combined with the tank/pump distance and elevation from the engine, and the number and types of bends/connections, to determine line ID. I.e. mandrel-bent fittings are less restrictive than the less expensive cast ones.

Factoid: An 8000 hp dragster uses a 3in diameter fuel line. Cool

Ok,

Thanks for all the help.

Brant came over and gave me some tips after seeing my rust free, running, perfectly straight, race 914 that I bought for $1k

He said to just use 3/8" brake line that you can get at the local auto parts store and replace the tunnel lines with that once the motor is out.
I assume that 5 feet will make it all the way?

Then I guess I will need to buy the 8 & 10 AN fittings that come from the fuel cell and adapt that to the 3/8" brake lines.

I assume that 2 hose clams will work for that.

So next question: I guess I will have to adapt the 10-AN and the 8-AN fittings down to the correct AN fitting size of braided flex hose to slip over the flared 3/8" brake line.

If the ID is 3/8", then the OD is probably ~1/2" so a 8-AN tube would fit nicely over the brake line.
I would still need to adapt the 10-AN down, but thats only one fitting.
I think I wil get 90 swivel fittings for the fuel cell.
Sad that all the fittings I will need cost almost as much as the cell
I think I am ready to call Jegs

Anybody see a problem with this plan?

Stu

Sorry to rain on your parade but you're plan does have some problems.

Brake line is tube so the nominal size is the OD, meaning that you can clamp 3/8" tube over a 3/8" brake line (with a flare or something to keep it from coming off).

I would neck down from the -10 on the tank to a -6 which can go to a regular barbed fitting/regular hose to clamp to the 3/8" brake line. Then do the same thing on the engine side to make everything over there -6.

Just so you are aware, you also cannot just slip braided hose over a tube and expect a clamp on it to work. You need to use regular rubber line to do that; clamping braided line is really not safe.

Unless you are doing it strictly for the looks, I would look at using push-on hose fittings. They (and the push-on hose) are significantly less expensive than braided and just as robust.

The braided lines look nice, but don't really do anything better than the plain hose as it's the inside of the hose that matters most. If it's something that going to have a lot of wear or be subject to possible hazards (ie rocks thrown up from the road), then the braided lines make sense. Otherwise, it's really just for show!

If you decide to use rubber hose fuel line,, be sure to use "SAE 30R9" commonly referred to as Fuel Injection fuel line, even if you're using carbs. The reasoning behind this is the new formulations of fuel will eat through regular fuel line, and some lesser steel braided hose.
There was some discussion on this other thread,,,
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...mp;hl=fuel+line

I hope this helps,,

-Robert

Sorta.
SCCA will let you run braided hose through the cabin (although they'd be happier yet if it was behind a metal panel). You'll never get an unsheathed hose in the cabin through tech.

If we're talking about a line through the tunnel then yes - it really doesn't matter. In fact, since standard neoprene line won't stand up to oxygenated pump gas very well and you'll have to replace it more frequently than you'd like (i.e. it ain't "forever") you're better off with something cheap & light or "forever."

SS tube or Teflon-braided hose are sufficiently forever, IMO.

Had too many bad experiences with Neoprene / Buna-N to recommend it for fuel.

(I once used a section of "vintage" braided hose in a CIS application and it sprayed pressurised fuel everywhere right through the steel. I switched off and tossed that bit of line right in the trash. For me now it's Teflon or SS.)

I went with metal tube thru the tunnel with proper adapters to AN braided on both ends. It was more expensive and more work but is as close as possible to a 'permanent' solution IMO.

Ok, so I have done the following:

Verified that I can get 2X 3/8" flared steel lines through my tunnel, however I cannot fit the flare nuts through so I will need to cut them off.

Moved the fuel pump to the front gas tank compartment (no gas tank).

Installed the Fuel cell in the spare tire area with 6AN fittings and 30R9 3/8 fuel line through the firewall with grommets.

So I have a few more questions:

1 - Can 5/16" (30R9) fuel line clamp to the stock fuel pump and be safe?

2 - What is a good aftermarket fuel pump that can run the FI AND carbs ( when I convert in the future )?

3 - For the engine side of the 3/8" steel fuel lines, what do I need to convert the 3/8" flare fitting to more 5/16" fuel lines to route up to the fuel rails?
I will be capable of leaving the flare nut on on that end so I assume that there is some adapter to go from 3/8" flare to 5/16"...

4 - I assume that I can have one of those clearview fuel filters between the fuel cell and the pump since that side is under vaccum and not high pressure, right?

5 - Should I put another fuel filter AFTER the fuel pump in the engine bay? If so, I assume I need a high pressure filter...

Stu

For the tubing experts out there...
Can I do this:

Cut off the flared end of my 3/8" steel line.

Slide one 6AN "tube nut" ( http://www.jegs.com/i/Earls/361/581806/100...roductId=749390 ) over the end.



Slide one 6AN "tube sleeve" ( http://www.jegs.com/i/Earl%26%23039%3Bs/361/581906/10002/-1) over the end.



Flare using a single flare tool.

Thread in a 6AN to Hose barb fitting ( http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeromotive/027/15635/10002/-1 )



Connect to my 30R9 5/16" FI hose with a hose clamp?

I thought that would work, but I wanted to verify before I purchased.

Am I missing something?
I know that a standard AN fitting has a 37 degree flare while a SAE flare is 45 degrees. Isnt this exactly what the "tube sleeve" is for to compress the AN fitting onto the 45 deg. flare sufficiently to seal?

This will be at the high pressure end of the fuel lines, so I want it right.

Stu

Yes, as long as you use a 37º flare.



The 'tube sleeve' is designed to do what you want - for a 37º AN flare fitting.

It is _not_ an AN->SAE adapter.

Just get the right flaring tool and you should be OK.

Be aware that the stainless with work-harden so you'll get just one chance. If there is a problem, you'll get to cut off the flared region and try again. For this reason, I would probably suggest either an abrasive cutoff wheel or hacksaw to make the cut, rather than a tubing cutter in this application.

All this information is available in app notes on the Earl's website for free...

ArtechnikA,

Thanks for the reply.

The 3/8" fuel lines that I have are not stainless so hardening should not be a problem.

Also, after I posted the above, I found this article:

http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_info/f...Fuel%20Line.pdf

Which states "Automotive flares and flare tools are 45-degree flares. “AN” flares are 37 degrees. It is not “technically correct” to use a 45-degree flared tube with the 37 degree AN fittings, and for military and aviation use, this is not allowed: The 37-degree flares are designed to operate safely in systems up through 3,000 psi, so a flared angle mismatch is not
allowed under these conditions. We never see such pressures in auto fuel systems. In actual testing that I have done, I have found that the 45/37 combination works safely and reliably in pressure systems up to 250 psi."

So, I think I have my answer.

I can get good enough with a 37 degree flaring tool, or purchase a new 45 degree flaring tool.

Stu