A little concerned about recent issue of Pano & the early cars for sale!

Most recent issue had 3-4 356's & no 912's! 914s were sparse too & most were DE or track cars.

What's the thought? Are we becoming dinos too, just like the 356/912 people?

Or, do we just not go to PCA these days? Like to hear your commennts.
Pat

Not dinos for sure, good cars are just getting scarce!

IMHO - you advertise where you get the most coverage in your market, & I'd guess that here, 914club, ClubNARP, etc.are more focused to buyers/sellers of 914s, than is Pano. Hemmings is the same way, sparse.



Yup - just a little younger dinos!



We get many more of the newer Porsches at the Porsches & Doughnuts, PCA OCR monthly Breakfast, and Porsches & Pancakes; but a fair amount at the CW & AX/DE/TT/Rally events. I think it's a matter of wanting to drive them, having fewer of the old school Porsches around (many in states of resto like mine), etc.

I think it varies by region & event. Parade had what 4 or so 914s this year, & they fares reasonably well in their respective events.

I see a split of 914s - those in original condition (preserved, restored, nice DDs, restorable, etc.), and those which are modded into various forms (AX monsters, racers, 6-converts, V8's, Suby's, Clones of 914s & other cars, etc.). Then there are the 3rd category of ones going to parts donors, or the slow rust back to mother earth! I have one each of the 1st & 3rd category.

One way to look at this process is that the slow attrition makes the surviving ones more valuable, as happened with the 356s, which at one time were attainable under $2k before their popularity grew.

Another factor is the holdover by some PCA members & other self-proclaimed Porsche experts, that the 914 is NARP (like a water-boxer, SUV or 4-door is!!?? ) &/or was a failure.

In fact, during the 73 - 74 MYs they sold 27k+ & 25k+, which is roughly 1/3 of their current 75k sales level today. It would be a huge success today at that level, even if it were another joint project, as is the Cayenne SUV which makes up most of those 75k sales now.

... that's my 2 cents FWIW!!!!

Well, My experience with PCA is that 914s are respected these days and no longer the red-haired step child they once were, BUT, we are becoming very rare. I find the PCA here in NJ loves the 914s as they embrace any of the older cars. 997s and GT3 are commonplace so any car with real character is a standout (in a postiive way).

At the DE at Watkins Glen this august, I saw the largest 914 numbers I had seen in years and that was 6 (with 2 being race prep cars).

At the concours events, you are likely to see more 914s than 944s/968s and 928s combined sometimes, but the 356s are the dominant car in the pretty world.

Whenever I take my 914 to a PCA event someone is always telling me to notify them first when I want to sell it.

Dino, maybe, but we have some cred, finally. (sure beats my high school teacher asking if it was a fiat...)

I agree with Eric/cupomeat, most of the PCA guys at our more social events come over to anytime SoCal Andy's Yellow 72, or my buddy Jerry's pristine Red 71 showed up - they even teased Jerry for parking a row off the Porsches at Porsches & Doughnuts!

Many of them have stories of their first Porsche being a 914, and several wish they could get one again.

We get a mess of 914's at the G&R, but most don't go to PCA events, perhaps because the 914 crowd has a long standing tradition of being counter-culture.

I've been a PCA member since I bought my first 914 in 1974, and things have definitely changed as far as 914 is concerned. It's now a desired vintage vehicle or racer amongst members in the PCA, even though it started life as the bastard stepchild of Porsche.

I also think that there are only so many great cars, though people will continue resurrecting the marginal ones, and hopefully keep restoring them.

The PCA guys are starting to like us now. We've certainly outlived the 924's.

Oh goody!

No I don't think we are Dinos, just the opposite. We are in the sweet spot where we have gained respectability & when seen bring up memories of past owners. Of course the crap economy is also a factor.

The issue with Panorama is that it is "Old School" as a way to market & sell a car. With the internet, you have a Forum like ours that is model specific, the "Bird" that gets a lot of traffic, eBay, Craigslist, etc that are Instant Gratification. Even this is evolving as the social networks gain ground.

I think that Pano falls into the same category as Hemmings & AutoTrader - slow to change

T.C.

I agree with TC. Selling anything through a paper magazine is way too slow for
most people nowadays. Look at ebay and there are 20+ 914s for sale anytime.

The 356 guys here really liked my 914 at the last event. 90% of the PCA people
here drive cars that are less than 10 years old.

John

"Are we dinos?"

No, they are.

I recently went to my first swap meet here in Houston at a Porsche dealer. I didn't really expect much positive response to the 914 because Houston is not a 914 market and small cars are very much looked down upon in Texas. Plus when I got there, my little 914 was surrounded by mostly new expensive Porsches.

But everybody I spoke to said nothing but great things about the 914. One guy standing in front of his 70s 911 said he wished he owned a 914.

I wished I had put a mic on my car to see what people were saying without me around, not that their opinion has any influence on me, but just curious.

So if it's possible in Houston, it's possible anywhere!

I used to go to PCA events beyond AXing, you know, the "social" events. Ultimately people always ask "so what do you drive?". I'd look them straight in the face and say, a 914. Based on their reaction, I'd either make a new friend or not. The funny part was my DD was a 993. Its all about the people.

Dinos? Yes we are. as in Ferrari Dino 246. When the Dino 246 debuted, badges as a Dino, wiht no prancing horse anywhere, the little Pinanfirina sports car was scorned by the Ferrari crowd. "Not a real Ferrari."

Now its an extremely desirable collector Ferrari, one of my favorites. A good example is worth $150k, way more than the Real Ferrari 308 of just a few years later, with similar coachwork.

So, yes. the 914 is a Dino. Meant as a low price entry level sports car with solid engineering, now valued as a collector car, worth more than the later Porsches meant to replace it, such as 924 and 944.

The only way we are becoming dinos are that an entire generation of car loving guys are growing up without the experience of actually working on their cars.

Where we grew up changing our own oil, changing plugs, adjusting carbs, timing, working on brakes, repairing rusty vehicles, today's kids can't touch an engine with all the engine management computers plus spark plugs now last 150K miles.

Oil change: go to JiffyLube. Brakes? Take it to the shop. Today's tuners put cold intakes on; fart cans on the exhaust, chip the motor. Rust repair: almost non-exstitent these days with plastic and gavanized metal. That's about it.

Put in a new stereo? Buy it from Best Buy and they install it.

My daughter's boyfriend couldn't point out the cooling system resourvour from the battery. Never worked on a car with his dad.

So from that point of view, those of us who work on cars like we do are dwindling in numbers.

Agreed. Today, working your car consists of putting on a Chinese chrome gas cap, replacing the headlights with HIDs, and MAYBE installing a subwoofer yourself. Then paying somebody to install an annoying muffler on your 1990s Honda.

As a 24 year old, I knew nothing about cars before I bought the 914. Your typical young American (I did at least install a new radio/speakers in high school on my Beretta myself). Thankfully the 914 has opened doors and allowed me to learn. Still pretty much a newbie, but learning as I go.

About two years ago I had two interesting experiences.
One at Euro Festival....Pulled in to registration area and the female attendant said, what is that a Fiat .....
At an SCCA AX ...a younger guy said " what the hell is that"......he could probably tell you every Honda ever made. A couple of years ago at a Club Race a (wealthy appearing ) couple were looking at my track rat body and snickering...I was standing back but clearly it wasn't admiration ....... so I upgraded to a pretty GT At shows everyone always tells you how that was their ..( pick one); college, first, early sports car....but most still have fond memories !
Recently trying to price a really nice conversion to sell , Dr 914 reminded me my price of 17,000 (while on target) could buy a 84-88 Carerra. Newbies would probably go that way .

Oh, so this is not a thread about becoming my fanclub then? Damit

I have to say the local PCA chapter has always been very inviting to me and my ratty 914s, both PNW and OPR chapters.
As to more young people not 'working on their cars', we are just not tuned in with their car culture. Some of those fart can equipped cars are high teck hot rods from hell! There also never seems to be a shortage of kids for drag racing either.

IMO:
We owe a big thank you to all the Club Racers, Drivers Ed guys and auto crossers... over the years that beat up on everyone to help us gain repect.

I mostly get positive comments on our cars. For the rest of them (a select few that say things to my face), I must admit I rather enjoy blowing by them on the way home from the event.

(My mother drives faster than some of the snobby club guys in thier racing shoes and Porsche Leather jackets... LOL then again, my favorite show when i was a kid was Dukes of Hazzard so perhaps I am a menace on the public roads.)

Most certainly ...

....... and LOSE !!!!!!

...The thing is?........they(914 stock)...will be modded into exstinction
P.S. just you wait and see? Really talking Dino!

Good thread- thx, Pat.
My PCA group has always been enthusiastic about 914s. A few are from the "used to have a..." school, but most are not air-cooler types anymore, no grease under the fingernails. The rest are almost as clueless as a non-Porsche owner, but think it's "ugly, in a cute way!" and don't really even appreciate their own cars, with the exception of appearance.
Most 356 guys now go to high-end restoration type places too. There is a great yearly 356 concours I go to, that clearly reflects this. Most could tell you "who", or "how much", but not "how". A few were wa-a-ay mechanically capable, but had more money than time. The opposite seems to be true of at least 50% of 914 owners- that is; no money, but good brains and hands.
I got the best and most complete acknowledgement from a group of early 911 (longhood) owners (R-gruppe) on the way to Daytona once, and in my estimation, thats true cred.

my neighbor told me i bought a glorified vw.i said, 'yeah but it looks cool'

Whenever I hear that, I reply, "oh. so you don't really know anything about cars then. Better stick to your Japanese pile of boredom. Its better for guys like you. Leave the real cars to us."

http://blogs.motortrend.com/the-porsche-pa...-good-5668.html

Motor Trend bumps up the 914 in an article about the Panarama!

Dino's are getting r e s p e c t.

Yup ...... and so is his 356, 911 or 912, 993, 996, 997, etc.!

IMO:
prestige buyers still reign in the majority with Porsche buyers. although more respected in recent years, the 914 lacks the image prestige generated by the 911 based models. I am a pca member for teh driving events but the club is comprised of many more non-performance drivers

so cal pca is very different than other pca regions I play with. the snob factor increases as I go north or east.

I think that the fact that 914-6s or 914-4s have taken Fast Time of Day at the annual Porsche Parades for as far back as I can remember also gives them some credability with the PCA crowd.

All the print media seems to be fading away, though I still enjoy getting my Excellance magazines. The PCA Panorama hasn't changed forever in format or style, so it's considered pretty lame by many old members at this point. And as far as classified ads, just about everything is done over the internet these days. However, there is always the neat thrill of going to a swap meet and seeing what you may find. My garage is full of parts that I found and just couldn't leave the swap meet without!

A dinosaur's view.

I did my 6 conversion using Pano, Up fixen' and other print media. The far end of Pano was where one found bits and reliable sellers of them. All the sellers had to be PCA members. Where else would one find NSO (in it's wrapper) Solex cam?
Did the same when building my 2.7L.

I was computerless till early 99. Only then was I faced with dishonest assholes & massive mis-information to navigate through. Sure, I like the instant gratification of the internet but you have to pick & choose your sources. Without a solid base of knowledge .....it's down the primrose path you go. Between internet expurts and guys that want to sell ya something it is no wonder I've become a cynical asshole.

A Dinosaur soon to become petroleum products (another internet misconception).....

JPIII

Yup, we are dinos (dinosaurs is what I mean).

Most of us do our own work (or at least a good portion). Take a look around a DE sometime and see what the typical newer participant skills are. They BARELY know how to put air in tires. Most don't have a clue about changing brake pads or even a remote idea about self inspecting their cars.

Perhaps I'm jaded, but when I was 16 I was given a $850 car and was told I could drive it if I could keep it running (and no weekly tow bills). Been working on cars since before that and will continue to do all my own work. I can do anything but the more critical machine work. (I haven't yet tackled head work or case, crank, or cam machine work).

Yes, I truly believe that the younger generation (and I'm only 42) will grow up without knowing how to or have any desire to work on cars. Most of them tend to gravitate for the more expensive newer cars anyway.

I will continue to annoy them by driving my antique Porsche at DE events. It's amazing to me to see how well the new Porsches work right out of the box. Thankfully, few know how to really drive them really well.

I still have Vols 4 thru 10 (well used) of Up Fixen',IIRC. I'll sell them for 50 bucks + shipping.
If you *really want to learn about Porsches* this is your chance....or take your chances on the internet.

John, you don't have to be old to be a dinosaur....I'd much prefer it that way (sigh).

This is a great offer. I see these for $$'s online when they're offered. You're a good guy JP..
If John doesn't take um and you really will let them go, I'm #2 in line. Bill

Twas my intent to offer them to anyone reading this drivel....John knows too much already, me thinks.
I think you would be first in line. For instant gratification send me email.

LOL

I got my 'UpFixin' set complete when PCA gave them away for shipping cost a couple years back.

I think the newer generation sees working on cars as a chore and would much rather spend there time texting. The car to most was freedom, but a lot of the youth would rather not drive so they can twitter there facebooks on the bus. You can usually spot them with there heads down trying to walk.
I also think culture is just changing. People in most neighborhoods don't like you working on your car it brings down the property value. My town got low marks for desirability because most people own cars over 10 years old. I remember when most neighbors respected driveway mechanics and did not give you dirty looks.

The pca has been more friendly to me over the years, but I don't know if 914s have gained more respect? or it's me getting older and losing more hair has earned the respect?
My son thinks dinosaurs are cool so I like being a Dino, besides I don't even have a cell phone yet.

I point those vapid perpetually texting morons out to my 11-yr. old son and tell him "That's your competition in life." The world is his oyster.

I love this site because the guys here do the work. You guys have a fundamental understanding of these cars and mechanics in general. You restore with you hands, not with your checkbook alone. You make beautiful cars with well-made engines and flawless body work. There's less talk of economics and what cars cost and more about the right camshaft or how to weld flares. I think the knowledge that comes out of this site will keep the 914 alive for years to come.

Here here! Well put. While I know my way around a tool box, and could have resto'ed my 72 myself, there are untold number of issues that were easier and done "right" utilizing the pool of knowledge on this forum. I can only hope to find as good group of people to draw knowledge from when the bug hits to start a new none 914 project.

Actually that is one of scariest things about DE's the last few years. The new cars allmost drive themselves and the pilots of said vehicles can't really learn anything, certainally not how to use your right foot to get you out of trouble.




Actually I have the opposite in my neighborhood. I always get people I never have met giving me the thumbs up or stopping to chat. And I don't live on a busy street ( maybe 1 car goes by every 15 minutes). I also get people asking if I will work on their cars (NO, unless it's an old Porsche)