I have a line on a 911 engine with Webers in the 245hp range for, say...$1500.

I don't have any of the details on displacement, CR, builder, age, blah, blah...yet.

Of course, you buy it.

Question is, What will I pay to finish the install?
After exhaust, fuel set-up, adapters,oil tank,etc...Bottom line is?

$2000...$3000...$5000...tell me straight up, I'm sitting down!

What are the positives and negatives of doing this?

If you decide not to buy it, drop me a note and I will put it in mine!!

Jeff

I dunno... I did a search, but couldn't find it again... but Brad posted a complete list of parts needed and the prices to budget last year sometime... the total came in close to 10K... but I dunno what he was figuring on budgeting for the engine... probably MUCH more than 1500 though...

positives I know of: more hp, more torque.. better resale value

negative I know of: not as much hp or torque as a chevy conversion and more expensive than a chevy conversion

but what do I know?

I say go for it! I personally think a -6 is cooler than a SBC anyday!

If I don't buy it, everytime I'm out in public people will point and laugh...Even the children!

245HP? I guess this is a built 3.2L then? seems like one of those too good to be true stories. I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.

Here's the story.
Friend's grandpa builds motor for dune car.
Doesn't use ( due to his being currently dead.)
Friend's dad inherits motor.
Sits and sits.
Friend to me: " hey, wanna six? "
Me: " Uh, Yes "

first I have to say: on the 245hp motor for $1500

even if you got a motor for free, you are looking at a a few thousand dollars minimum to pay someone to install it for you....oil tank-500,motor mount-400, you can figure out the rest, it is not cheap to do....if was even close to your lower figure, there would be handfuls of conversions going on every week.........if was that easy and cheap, almost everyone would do it.........

is it worth it??? I doubt it, I'm sure everyone that spends $10K to $20K to do a bitch'n conversion had no social life and just wanted to spend time and money on a POS car

Figure 4-5K plus the motor.

A six conversion will cost everything you have, and everything you'll ever have. ;-)

If you do it yourself, include the cost of: personal relationships, social life, all your time, space, emotional energy.

DO IT!

The file that was referred to should be found here: One example of a 914 conversion to a 3.6

-Rusty

Cost for the motor alone:

$1500 - purchase price

THEN if you are smart:

Tear down the motor and ensure it was done right, refresh what has gone bad from sitting (how long), and put back together. This number could be anything from $1000-5000 depending on what motor and what it needs. Ask me how i know you cant just slap a motor that has sat and sat into a car and EXPECT it to run fine....

Then of course all the conversion stuff.

I'm going with what he said!

A 245hp six for $1500??? TGTBT, I promise.

Let's just say OK you got the deal of a lifetime on the engine. You'll still have to get the chassis, suspension, and brakes to handle that kind of horsepower. AND then the six conversion parts, with additional oil cooling for your high output gift engine.

I'm saying $15,000 all said and done, providing you find more left testicle deals and do all the work yourself.

Or you can bring it to me next summer and I'll do it for $45 and hour, and 15% over cost on parts and outside labor.

PK

Perry, If I was doing a six conversion, I'd jump on that deal.

I have done the math many times, figure when all is said and done $8000-10,000. That is why I look at every 914-6 conversion or 914-6 that is available, it makes more sense in the long run, you have a car already done that you can jump into and turn the key and drive. Not one that sits in youir driveway or garage waiting to find this part or saving money to buy this and that, And then it gets to be such a long drawn out project that you finally sell it for $.50 on the dollar to some else who finishs it and drives into the sunset.
I would be wary of a $1500, 345 hp 911 motor, but then you never know.
CCLINWISHIHADAV8,OHIDO

Well really, just buy someone else's car. There are cars out there if you have the time and patience to wait for the right deal. It's always cheaper to buy a completed car than to build it up.

It's not unusual to find cars built with a build sheet in the 30's, for sale in the low 20's or high teens.

More fun to do it the way you want, but lots more money.

PK

For $1500 I'd probably get the engine, if it had Webers and all the parts. Wouldn't you?

That's what everybody says but when you are really looking with money in your pocket nice cars never seem to come up for sale. I've been looking for about a year now and the more I look the more I think I'm going to have to build the car myself someday.

Trade it to Jake for one of his BIG IV's with Nickies!!

Save a lot of time and grief on installation, and you'll be on the road in no time

A close estimate when we did the six conversion on my race car last year was as follows: $6000 for a well built race engine with new distrib, good Webers, headers, stingers and muffler and 184 HP at the rear wheels. New -12 oil lines to the front cooler to replace the -10 and fittings about $400, dry sump system $000 as we had one but did some relocation, front engine mount from Patrick $400, engine tin from Patrick $400, new shift linkage parts $225 and finally some labor at a shop to do the mount up of the engine, test run the engine and get all sorted out $1500. The engine has sat for about a year and had a couple of hours of run time and leak down was about 3 to 4% which was great. I was lucky since it came from a 914 race car the alternator connections plugged right into to the existing relay board. Finally be aware that the gearing in a 4 cylinder 914 will never work with a six and if you want to race you are looking at a limited slip (GT) and a new gear set such as M-S-V which will drive the cost up substantially. Good luck

OK we're in the middle of a conversion now. Oil tank $700, Oil Lines $350, Bosch Distributor to replace the Marelli $150, Turbo valve covers and gaskets to replace the bad originals $150, Motor mount and misc. parts $500, Headers with heat exchangers maybe $1500, new accelerator cable, new fuel pump, new voltage regulator, sheet metal if you don't have it. K&N air cleaners, some type of exhaust, shift linkage, six cylinder tachometer $75. Pressure fed cam tensioners if you don't have them (like I don't) $450. Let's call it $4000 ballpark. The sound of a six....Priceless!

The tank alone is 700$. You'll pay another 150-200$ for all the console parts. Dont forget the bell crank conversion for the tranny (unless you have a very early intermediate case with it tapped for the pivot rod)

8-10k every time if you drop it off to me and say "Just do it" the unknown variable is the engine choice. Injected anything will need a bigger fuel pump.

Most people dont factor in gearing the tranny either. Driving a 3.0 around on stock 901 gears gets OLD real quick when gas is over 2.00 a gallon.



B

Add to the list some kind of external oil cooler (depending on the engine, application and climate) and very likely "some" work on the Webers even if the engine is sound.

Also, think about stuff like CV's and axles as your ancient original ones could give up the ghost quickly when asked to transmit 2-3X the torque of a stock 4-banger.

And all the stuff you would do on any -4 or -6 car being upgraded becomes all the more important with a high-perf project -- fuel lines, brakes, suspension, steering, lights/electrical, etc.

Basically, take nothing for granted and assume the worst case i.e. that EVERYTHING on the car will need to be checked and refurbed or replaced. If you happen to luck out in certain areas, then great. Better to have "positive" surprises than negative ones...why do you think so many incomplete six conversion projects end up for sale? Unrealistic expectations going in... I thought I would have my car "done" in a year; no dice, it will be more like 2 1/2 years before it is at a reasonable doneness state per my original vision. I was not too delusional on costs as I had the BTDT factor to go by (plus stories from this board and others.)

To echo the usual advice, if you can find a car that is already "close" to what you want to end up with (and have cash to fund it all at once) then BUY IT as you virtually always come out waaaay ahead.

Excellant advice and thanks for all the details.

I will see the motor this week and so will you. ( pics coming )

As for the costs... I am one resourceful fellow.
Just so happens, a VERY qualified, self-employed mechanic with a shop to die for, in his backyard, with a lift, ten minutes from home, needs a bathroom tile job. hmmmmm.

I might even make money doing this.

I figure, I could do this for cost of parts alone.
As for time...I WILL not start until all parts are in hand/view.

This is me " ".

All goes well, this " "...oh, yes.

All right.

DIY, 4-5K which, with some careful shopping, would even include a good external cooler. I ain't one much for "letting" anyone else work on my car....much less paying for it.

As for the rest of the "stuff", you can easily double that, but you didn't ask that question

Get some "specs" on that motor & report back.

O.K.

everyone's been too busy.

This saturday is supposed to be the look see.
I'm taking the camera, getting engine # and I will show you the pics. Sorry for the wait!

I've been trying to get this 6 conv. done for about 3 years off and on (trying to keep some sort of normal life along with working many hours a week) and here is what I've seen so far. Total cost of the project so far is $10,887.01. This doesn't include the cost of the car to start with. It does include getting screwed by one of the only porsche mechanics in Lexington, KY that skipped town to my suprise after the engine was built and before it started ( name given in private email for protection of others that might come in contact with....last known location...Vegas). Right side cam out of time and valve crash. Includes next rebuild done myself. Just got the carbs back rebuilt and bench started and tuned the engine Monday 5/24 . Includes 911 SC front suspension waiting to go in. Includes fuch wheels but no tires yet 16X7-16X9 (looking for 8's). Does not include all the start and stops of progress (time = $) for parts or trips for missing items or work of others . None of my labor has been counted which is many hours. The engine will be installed in the car 6/5 . Still to do: convert rear suspension to 5 lug and powder coat (have stub axles, need hubs and e-brakes). Install front suspension, running the electrical, interior, and then repaint. All I can do myself but the stiching for the seats. Some days I cuss myself for even seeing this car let alone starting the conversion. Remembering how fun it was to drive with the 4 in it and hoping for much more enjoyment along with small victories along the way keeps me going. Hopefully, by July, I will be breaking the engine in and all the suspension and brakes will be finished. It seems the farther you dive into making a top notch conversion the deeper it gets. Your starting out with a 28 to 34 year old car. I've seen 6's done that looked like they got the thing in there and running and that's about it and it looks like it. If your after a professional done ride that is safe and dependable along with being drop dead in looks like I am, it takes the time and money.

Fuch the engine numbers... get us that guys phone number

You got the right prices above., Conversions ain't cheap. Do what I do; save all the receipts in a folder for the next guy to add up. Under no circumstances should you add them up yourself.

LOL...never add up the receipts...and NEVER NEVER EVER let your significant other find them!

I have come to gauge how expensive a project is by its thickness...i.e. 2" of receipts, 8" etc....

O.K. Sorry to be a carrot dangler.

I have the appt to FINALLY see this motor in 40 mins.
pics follow.

I hope we're not disappointed.

Guys...Really..What would you do?

MMMM

Webers

engine# 911 670

he says it's a 225hp 3.0...Brad? others?

what displacment case is this?

The price really is $1500.00

He doesn't need any tile work

He has agreed to drop it at my mechanic tomorrow pm for a once over and comp test. Maybe we'll run it?

I have access to a bell housing with a starter to crank it.

ME WANT.

that looks schweet!

even if you don't convert your car, you can always sell it for more than $1500!

have it tested, then do a dyno run and see how much HP you get ...

then start collecting conversion parts.
Andy

PS: we need a HOOKED smily!

I'd say "gimme gimme gimme." The hel with the cost of conversion. If this thing doesnt go into your car you could sell it for more than you paid. Don't be discouraged, but what do I know, I'm a nut job.

Oh ya, and a small part of me hates you.

No WAY is that engine a 3.0. That case is an early aluminum case, early lower valve covers and everything. It's likely still a 2.0. At most it could be a 2.8. But for $1500 complete and running, it's not a bad deal...

What was this engine running in before? Some sort of dune buggy? Good deal reagradless if the HP numbers are as advertised and a full checkout comes up clean. Webers alone would fetch 1k if in good shape. You would have to at least rethink that exhaust routing...

Take it and run my man! That is a helluva deal. I will give you $1600!

early aluminum cases are desirable, and if that one has had the necessary machine work done, that could be a great motor!

1500 is a steal... check the compression and see what happens, post lotsa pics of the conversion for us to live vicariously through you!

Uhhh... sorry to burst your bubble.

That serial number is for a 1967 911 2.0 (1991 disp) motor. In stock form the 901/06 produced 130 horsepower @ 6600 rpm. It had 9.0:1 compression and Weber 40 IDA carbs. Those could very well be the original carbs.

I can't possibly imagine a 3.0 built on that case. If it was built to 911R specs of the same year, it *might* hit 220 hp. But the 67 911R motor turned at 8000rpm, had 10.3:1 compression and 46 IDA carbs.

Even so, a clean, nice running small /6 with Webers is STILL worth 1500, easily.

-Rusty

Thanks for all the feedback thus far.

I'm going to further inspect the motor now.

Too bad it's the small six.
I don't know how they came up with there size and HP figures.

I'll take more pics of the process.

Will the rocker arms show us something if there has been mods?

Supposedly comes with an extra 4 puck clutch.

It might be fun to modify the 6 into 1 Supertrapp header for the mid engine.

What can be done to squeeze more power outa the small six w/Webers?

I'll report later.

Well... I haven't dug into my notes but it should be a sand cast aluminum block. If so then you can build on it. They should be strong enough to handle 2.2S goodies. The thought would be to make it a 2.2S motor with the proper P&C's, cams and heads. Good luck finding early 911S P&C's, Cams and Heads though.

It would be a fun 170-180hp if you could put it together. Short-strokers are one of my favorites.

Here's another option. 90mm Carrera RS P&C's, S-cams and some 2.2 heads cut to S-specs. They made a lot of them (90mm's) so they're cheap (in 911 terms). You would have a problem with low compression. Some recommend cutting the heads but that leaves a lot of slack in the chains. There are some machine shops out there that re-bush the rod ends (my choice) to bring the compression back up. This gives you a 2.5 liter short-stroking 220-250hp powerhouse! Yeee-fuching-haaa. That's basically what's going in my GT (built on a 2.2 platform, your sandcast case should be stronger)

dangerous territory here ... asking what can be done to squeeze more HP out of a small six....

Its a slippery slope your on my friend...

hopefully that motor is already a larger displacement.

A 2.0 can be built to 220hp.. a bit more with a twin plug.. but your talking about wheel barrels full of cash here.. Its cheaper to go to bigger displacement than add cubic cash into a small bore...
or you can buy used 911S pistons/cylinders, crank, heads, cams and you can get to S specs for around 150hp....

brant

Bought the motor...I think congratulations are in order!

First, we checked the cylinders for leakdown with a air testing device. 4 were great, 1 good, 1 a little blow-by. This was done dry and cold so we are pretty sure after valve adjust, running the motor and running oil through it, letting it loosen up a bit, it should be O.K.

The plan: get it running next week on the bench.
I'd like to put the six in my car basically as is. Just get it running well.

If I can get 130-140hp that should keep me happy.

Labor will be a fair work trade for a bathroom remodel. I can do a lot of the mechanical work myself.

I'm going to clean the six tomorrow ala McMark style to get a quick fix.

If all goes well, I'd like to see the car in full dressed six by winter

congrats

while a mid sized to big block /6 motor is a blast, the smaller /6 motors are still fun....the sound alone is almost worth the conversion (my wife went for spin with me when I first got my first 914/4 and was looking for the large and loud lawn mower always following us )

Congrats!

If the motor is basically sound, you got a good deal. I have an small /6 (2.0), and am very happy with it. If you get 130-140 hp out of that motor, you got an EXCELLENT deal.

Open up the carbs and clean out the float bowls. Cheap insurance.

way to go!

-Rusty

Good job Trekkor.
The other stuff adds up $, but I believe you got a good deal.

Congratulations!
I am in the process of doing the same thing with a 2.2 ltr - so far the cost for parts (w/o motor) including motor mount, oil tank, clutch, accellerator cable, engine tin (fibre glass), headers w/o heat, oil cooler adapter, 5 lug conversion including SC brakes and spring upgrades are under $4K - careful shopping will help you to control your cost - for example - cost differences between oiltanks is from $450 - as high as $700 - - good luck!