Anybody using the GT Racing fiberglass doors on their cars? I don't want to go skins and have to climb thru a small window - I want a full door I can attach and open.

http://www.gt-racing.com/pdfs/GTR914.pdf

I am just looking for general fitment and sturdiness - whether the gaps and overall surface finish is perfect doesn't matter as I can bodywork that, just want to know if they have held up well and if the mount locations for the door hinges were in the right spot. GT is not known for overall fit and finish so I am expecting those issues

Also interested in seeing what you used to actually hold it shut since there would be no more handle and latch mechanism - what did you tie into to hold it shut and has your mount concept held up over time. Just screwing a hook into the fiberglass can pull pretty easy so interested in seeing what folks came up with.

Thinking of hacking the longs out of my car finally (only kept them to support stock doors and they are welded to the tube chassis, so I have a full chassis there), mount my rocker covers on a couple Dzuses and have a lightweight door that I can weld a couple bars in to hold the mounting brackets. I think I can get about 100 lbs out of my car without going too crazy. What is left of the longs might be carrying about 50-70lbs based on some other info I got about what they weigh.

Just my .02.
I would use Shreidan. I quit dropping weight when I realized I couldn't make the
E Mod minimum. Sheridan's doors were on the list. I do have F&R deck lid from Roger.....nice stuff. Duzs hold nicely on the front. Light but strong....and fit then finish nicely.

Hey Tim,

A suggestion would be Rennspeed:
http://www.rennspd.com/Products.asp?Task=S...=13&catID=9
They are door skins, but the quality is good (from my experience with 2 sets of rear flares and rocker panels) and the price is great! With a wee bit of welding (and/or fiber glassing) , you could create a frame that hinges.

For a latch, there are a number of automotive options out there. another option is McMaster-Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/#door-latches/=a72koy

I hope this is helpful,

Terry

Guys, not interested in using a skin only. The GT Racing doors have a full door shape and won't be flimsy. Skins will warble significantly without support at all four corners, etc and I want something I can pull a quick release pin and physically open a somewhat sturdy door.

I have Sheridan stuff and know Roger, went to his house when he was in Agoura Hills when I bought my body work and also up north when I rolled up to check his car out again before building my tube chassis setup - really nice guy and I would love if he made full doors, but I only remember him doing skins. I will likely get a roof skin from him and deck lids when the time comes for that.

"Roger".....
That's one mistake I'll not make again.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=1198307

JP - nothing negative meant by my post in any way... just talking about knowing of Roger's stuff and that he is a cool guy to work with. Certainly wish he had full doors v. just skins.

six - wow, that is exactly what I was afraid of with GT. My wing is from them and it is rough... that door appears to be rougher yet. I thought they had some sort of hinge mounting in them but apparently not, they are barren of any mounting reinforcement, etc.

I cant be 100 % they are GT , There is alum blocks glued in the hinge mount area and hole shadows from the mold that indicate where they they may go.

Can you live with 13lbs?

yeah, that is what I have right now, about 12 lbs. I hacked the living daylights out of my early doors. Cantilevering 6lbs off of a couple mount pads and tubes v. 12 lbs probably isn't that much difference, so I am already weighing (how funny, reread for grammar and caught the pun) the idea of just using what I have, keeping just enough door frame to hold the latch and ID tag, and the front door mounts and just hack the longs out from under everything.

I think you and I talked before and you did the same thing to your doors as I did - hacked em up, and then you added back in some bracing. I just let mine flop around when open, when closed they stay in place without any bracing.

You know I was thinking of going to fiberglass door skins on my car but from practical standpoint fiberglass has a bunch of issues. I'd have to solid mount skins - I like being able to open doors easily. Steel doors dont wobble or flex even when they are hacked to pieces properly. Magnetic numbers dont stick to fiberglass. Steel offers a little bit more protection. I have to weigh one of my Boxster doors. I know even hacked to death they still feel like boat anchors.

I took all the hinges off and replaced them with aluminum channel so saved some weight and (like you) took everything off the doors, including the cross bar braces. BTW if you want the same strength as cross bar braces just use wire and aluminum turnbuckles.

Mine are now bolted to the car and don't open, but not sure whether I want to go the next step of fabricating all the bits to fit a door skin. If i wanted them to open (like you) I'd keep the original hinges , which is so much easier as the door still functions properly and latches correctly.

I think the biggest weight saving thing I can do now is to remove the sail and replace it with fiberglass.

I haven't been happy with any of GT racing's stuff since Hank's kid took over several years ago. Does Getty make them? How about the guy in Hemet, Ca that's all over ebay? His stuff is good.

Was that the stuff cliff bought that didn't fit very well?

John Rogers ran FG doors

he was on "club" . I dont know if he reads here

thanks for the additional info guys. I am not sure about the dude in Hemet, tho' I know I have seen some stuff on the forums regarding him. Getty doesn't list doors for 914s, I know they make 'em for 911s as a buddy had them on his car (Jack Olsen on the bird board). If they did make 'em they would certainly be my source as I know there stuff fits great like Sheridan's stuff does.

Anyone know more about the guy in Hemet area?

Randal - check for weight on the sail panel, I have notes I have been reviewing the past week and I had noted a forum post regarding various weights of parts (it was a thread I had on club regarding weight of the longs awhile back) and the sail I have noted as being about 15 lbs because it is a "hollow" part and Sheridan's replacement is around 4 lbs, so only about 11 lbs save. The rear window is better replaced with thin lexan/similar and that saves about the same weight I believe. Just FYI in case you were expecting that part of the car to be really heavy. For me I am considering spending the $$ on a roof skin from Roger as that is a big savings over a stock roof.

As an FYI SCCA Solo rules don't allow doors to be bolted shut. Not that I think it's a heavily enforced rule but just in case you were not aware. Maybe there is exemption for open top cars that I haven't found?

17.2 J

They must be removable.....but not bolted. Dzus are specifically allowed as are pins.

I had heard the same thing, i.e., the sail doesn't really save that much, especially if you put on a FG one. Wonder how ugly it would look to totally lose the sail?

I've already taken out the rear window.

Wheels are the next weight saving move.

I don't know where to go for weight savings after that!

Sail is good weight to lose as it's up high. There was an E mod 914 long time ago without sails.

As far as more weight savings go have you gone to aluminum hats with thin or drilled rotors? Aftermarket aluminum calipers. Focus on rotating weight. Titanium axles? Titanium wheel studs. Then suspension. I'd love to see aluminum or titanium trailing arms on a 914. titanium torsion bars? Or something lesser like this. http://www.erpparts.com/suspension/911_914...tSuspension.jpg. How about aluminum body struts and shocks?

Aluminum or titanium steering column rod? Titanium exhaust? Replace all heavy steel bolts with aluminum or titanium. If its a PCA only car get hole saw out and hit all non structural sheet metal. Replace steel floors with aluminum. I bet 901 could be lightened but that's going to cost some clams.

Your car should be getting light enough that you probably need good amount of aero downforce. Have you been up to anything on that front?

Do you still have steel fenders? CF fenders would take a bunch of weight off the car as well.

As an FYI Jason at Jongblode has some magnesium centers that he is offering at sale prices. He may have more. Not cheap but my 15x7.5 wheels were under 9 lbs. My Boxster wheels are the lightest 16x10s I have seen.

Yep, top dollar and it fit like shit. That was my last GT Racing recommendation. Cliff blames me, I think I'll go kick his ass, now that you mention it.
Relax, I'm kidding. I love Cliff like an ugly child.

Here's Hemet boy's info- http://www.qrsfiberglass.com/catalog/index...dex&cPath=2

He only has door skins. It just occurred to me that one could strip the skin off of an early door shell and bond the fiberglass to the shell with autobody structural adhesive and have a really nice, light, durable door. Door skins come off pretty easy without damaging the frame if you grind through the edges all the way around, just through the outer layer, then peel it off. That will work on the ends, on the top and bottom you'll need to sever the spot welds.
On my light metal doors on my 6 racecar project I used a plasma to remove everything possible. They're about 7 pounds now.

QRS's fiberglass parts don't fit perfectly but they're way cheaper than GT's and they fit better. The only glass parts that I've ever seen that fit perfectly were made by Porsche, Ford, or Chevy, at their factory.

Did you contact Getty and ask about the doors? FYI everything I have bought from them was first class. Perfect in every way and worth every cent.

Parts that don't fit are a PITA; getting them to fit is a nose bleed every time.

FYI: if you still have a windshield you should run the rear window (lex or glass) . if you run windshield without rear window, it creates an eddy current that sucks major fumes into the cockpit area.
Jeff QRS Hemet dude does custom requests for reasonable prices ie: thinner or heavier glass, different holes...call him. if he doesnt do it or want to do it, he knows who will.

john rogers had complete door structure assembly with skin from GT. they wiehged the same as 10jreen's gutted early doors...11.5lbs

I have not called Getty to ask. I was getting the car loaded up yesterday and at the track all day today (cold, 49 deg max but managed to run my fastest time yet on one lap with 130 deg tire temps). Tomorrow I have a big to-do list of stuff but will try to get to them this week.

I have gutted early doors at 12 lbs, another guy cut his down and skinned it with the bonded method - 11 lbs when he was all said and done, so didn't see it as being worth it.

Sean - will have to check into QRS as well.

Welwood calipers on a teener = major task, both from the viewpoint of cost and effort. To make the brakes work you'd have to increase the size of the master cylinder, so you might as well go with a complete new petal assembly with built in master cylinder. Welwood calipers weight about 3.5 lbs each. I can’t remember the weight of my calipers, but something in the range of 10=12lbs, so weight saving about $40 per lb.

Titanium axles: That is interesting, know anyone around there that machines the stuff?

Drilled roters: Good sources?

Titanium or aluminum trailing arms: Talked to Chris Foley who doesn’t think aluminum is the correct route, given the stresses. Chris mentioned that Andy S. built a jig to build trailing arms out of chrome moly. Wonder where that link is hiding?

Wheels are a good spot for weight reduction. Should be able to find 30lbs there. About $33 per lb.

Replacing the floor panels with aluminum. What is you guess on the weight savings?

CF fenders would surely save some weight. I'm wondering how much weight could be saved and at what cost? Guessing CF fenders are probably not in my budget. One of Rich's light weight body kits might good, but again big money.

I beginning to think the sail is history.

SORRY ABOUT THE HYJACK TIM. I need to move this somewhere!

Sorry in advance for the Hijack Tim.

Randal, if you want to save axle weight look at carbon fiber axles. A number of companies produce them (the splines are bonded in), and they are probably less expensive than, and also don't have the poor fatigue performance of, titanium. Titanium is relatively tough to machine; my understanding is that it is similar to stainless steel.

I don't see floors as a huge weight savings, unless you don't mind putting in 20+ ga non-structural Al flooring.

Ditto Tim.

Know who makes the CF axles for a teener?

To my knowledge, no one sells production CF axles for Porsches.

BAC Technologies does make custom CF axles for midgets, carts, and drag cars, so they would be the best ones to get a cost estimate from. Their production appears to be pretty low so a custom order probably won't be much more expensive. http://www.bactechnologies.com/products.htm

To my knowledge, no one sells production CF axles for Porsches.

BAC Technologies does make custom CF axles for midgets, carts, and drag cars, so they would be the best ones to get a cost estimate from. Their production quantities appear to be pretty low so a custom order probably won't be much more expensive. http://www.bactechnologies.com/products.htm

FWIW I bought a rear f/g bumper from GT not long ago to replace another one I bought from them several years back, and the quality was night-and-day worse on the newer one. I doubt I'll buy from them again. YMMV.

Randal:
Read the SCCA rules very carefully....section 18 for the Mod classes......before you start spending money.

Will do. Thanks.

I don't mind the hijack, interesting convo. Probably more of an issue that it is buried in a thread about doors and others won't see it.

I suspect the GT doors are pretty poorly finished - based on everything I have heard about GT to begin with, the only thing I ever bought was a wing and thought that couldn't be that bad, and again, I was pretty surprised at how much work it will take to make that thing smooth and nice (didn't care that much since it is a race car with a rattlecan paint job, but would be ticked if I wanted a decent part).

Actually it just dawned on me I forgot that I had a couple of the inserts that mount the wing loosen and begin pull out (bit scary, caught it before it blew off - that could kill someone) so I took them out, cleaned up the pocket in the foam and used some quality aircraft bonding material to put them back in.

Adding my .02 cents on GT racing fiberglass........ Do not even think about buying Hanks crap. I bought a 911 ST front bumper because he is the only one that made one at the time with the correct flare..... Big mistake. The damn glassed mounts HE glassed in were 2.5 inches off CENTER[/u]! Not to mention years ago I bought a hood and it was damaged- Its funny he never returned my calls- Finally had to fix it myself.
I will NEVER EVER BUY FROM GT RACING AGAIN.[u]

Getty stuff is top notch. Too bad they do not make the 914 doors. I have the 911 doors, RSR front fenders and they are excellent.

Hey Chad, fun to see you over here on this forum. I admit to recalling your displeasure (and others) with their stuff on the other forum and I guess I had some sort of unreasonable expectation or hope that they would have doors that were okay I too wish there were other options, pretty much any other fiberglass folks out there seem better.

Realistically I can use my hacked up early doors and still remove the longs - the doors are pretty light as is and most of the weight is in the hinge area that is fully supported anyway and not cantilevered.

Welwood calipers on a teener = major task, both from the viewpoint of cost and effort. To make the brakes work you'd have to increase the size of the master cylinder, so you might as well go with a complete new petal assembly with built in master cylinder. Welwood calipers weight about 3.5 lbs each. I can’t remember the weight of my calipers, but something in the range of 10=12lbs, so weight saving about $40 per lb.

Cheaper routes available. Aluminum 911 S calipers can occasionally be found for cheap, custom made aluminum hat rotors. I'm working on some now for the Boxster and will let you know how things turn out. Cheap big MC can be achieved by Mercedes 23 mm.

Titanium axles: That is interesting, know anyone around there that machines

Cox machining in Texas. But this would likely be crazy expensive!


How about aluminum body struts

Drilled roters: Good sources?

I'd look at custom machining - looking at many ax machines they pull lots of materials off the rotors.

Titanium or aluminum trailing arms: Talked to Chris Foley who doesn’t think aluminum is the correct route, given the stresses. Chris mentioned that Andy S. built a jig to build trailing arms out of chrome moly. Wonder where that link is hiding?

That is if you go traditional swing arm. Chris is bounded by lots of prepared car builds. This is no holds barred mod build right? I'd investigate what rules allow you to do to that crappy rear suspension. Something that better minimizes camber changes under load.

Wheels are a good spot for weight reduction. Should be able to find 30lbs there. About $33 per lb.

Replacing the floor panels with aluminum. What is you guess on the weight savings?

CF fenders would surely save some weight. I'm wondering how much weight could be saved and at what cost? Guessing CF fenders are probably not in my budget. One of Rich's light weight body kits might good, but again big money.

I beginning to think the sail is history.

SORRY ABOUT THE HYJACK TIM. I need to move this somewhere!
[/quote]

I bet Chad has an automagic GT Racing thread detector

I'm sticking with metal doors for now. I'll do some more lightening on the (early) doors themselves as well as the hinges at some point. They're already fairly light with no glass, panels, locks, etc. so I don't see huge gains (losses) to be had in this area without going to a pretty extreme skin setup.

LOL- No automatic thread detector.....I have a new race car project since I just finished the 911 ST. I am reading up so I do not have to reinvent the wheel.

So you're building a 914? If so that's very cool to hear - are you going to run with VARA or HSR or POC or ? As you may have heard, the POC rules are not kind to 914's but it's a great group of folks to drive with.

Yep- I just need to go pick the car up next week (914-4 to 6, which was in the process of being converted). It's a great project that someone lost interest in. I have an extra 2.5L race motor, so why not? I plan on racing it with VARA or HSR just to work the bugs out, then possibly sell it down the road. I really dont need two race cars.