Got pictures?

I'm sure some one could photochop a pic if you gave em' a good profile shot.
The 914 look is gone without the sail.
Someone did mine a few years back.

That is slipping mighty close to 17.2.S or 18.1.A. ...I dunno. A modified tub cost you 50 lbs in the Mod classes.

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A couple more of Wayne's car....9146.....

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^ I see sails.

Sure does look different, but with the high hoop and the bars running back to the shock towers not bad.

That cage isn't legal for SCCA. The rear down bars can't have a bend in them and be legal for SCCA and NASA.

You are right, no bends allowed in SCCA.

Good news is that mine aren't bent, but cutting the sail off would cost me 50lbs in EMOD; someone could argue that cutting the sail off is cutting part of the tub. Anyway easy math on that one given the net weight savings removing the sail is +/- 16lbs.

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Good lookin' cage, Randal.

Shouldnt there be a bar behid the seat to be SCCA and NASA legal? Do they allow you to mount harnasses to firewall?

Cut the outside skin off the sail then cut out all the heavy sheetmetal inside it. Or do what I did and make one in fiberglass.

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That is next in the process.

In reading the rules you can mount the shoulder harness to the firewall like JP did. He used big fender washers.

I am going to have a bar running from the hoop to the hoop cross bar, which is shown in the picture as a piece of tape.

That is really nice work. Wish we were closer to see that car in action.

Thanks Randal, I used the chrome trim pieces to maintain the shape of the piece and it worked pretty well.

I dont know if it is worth 50 lbs. but the targa bar from sail to sail is about 20 lbs. alone. (That is all that is left from my trarga bar).

Is this really a worth while mod? aren't you sacrificing quite a bit of rigidity by cutting the sails?

Thanks for the information.

I've gone off doing this project for two reasons, one of which you outline above, i.e., although 20 lbs is a lot, the negative is that you could get protested for cutting into the tub, per SCCA.

That wouldn't be a good thing.

Cage work looks great!! What class are you building it for?
The season after I cut away the most metal-we broke/fatigued the rear of our old chasis to the point that the car NEVER handled correctly again.So be careful.In some ways it was a blessing-we kept upgrading suspension components until we found the problem-Several frustrating seasons-we got really smooth driving a flexing chassis.JJackson

I'm probably going to run E Mod, but will be underpowered when going against the monster cars. But it will be fun and we'll see if a good handling car can get within shouting distance.

Emod looks like a great class.I like the modified and prepared classes because you can develop a car over a period of time-as budget allows.Our budget has never allowed the car to be finished-always searching,testing,reading, and hopefully improving the car.The "monsters" of the class do a lot of pointing and shooting-just rolling through corners due to big hp #s -in some really large cars (except for Kiesel of course-IMPRESSIVE) Do you have a good competitive local class?You can't go fast until you chase fast.JJackson

There is good competition in the bay area given that we have a huge number of venues and clubs that run autox's.

And that is the fun of course.

Like yourself I find the fun part developing the car within time and budget constraints.

Looking forward to having the car running and getting back to sorting out the suspension with this new motor.

E Mod seldom has a very large class. We've found decent size classes at NT events.....6-8 cars, none of which were national caliber and run where there is competition (contingencies, ya know). XP also works some years.

Basically, if ya got a good E Mod car at any AX you should dust all of the doorslammers. That makes keeping score easy.

While Randals car probably wont be a competitive National class e mod car it should run in the thick of things with national level prepared class cars we have in these parts for TTOD. We have too many E mods showing up to events even here in Nor Cal.

Randal you should sign up for Duel at De Anza! That is close by your place and very fun event. I think your car would do well there too! Talk to Dennis and Peggy about entry form if youre interested. Head to AAS events too as thats where the fast cars go and will give you a sense where your car is at.

Well, they must not be too proud of them.
I looked up all the West Coast NT events and Nationals for the last 3 years. Found 0 (that's zero) E Mod cars from Nor Cal listed in the results. I think Randal will do fine in E Mod locally. Some may develop or return to AX, but AX is a competition then, isn't it.

Typo DONT have

Kiesel's car is impressive and not without a huge cost of time and money. But impressive none the less, just to put together something special like that is pretty cool.

And I think he did a lot of the work himself unlike the Arrive and Drive (ADD) crowd that just brings money.

There are alot of people that buy a championship car and then fix it (never to be seen competitively again) and then there are the ones that make a good car incredible.I remember listening to the guys that were buying the ex Chris Cox BMW.They were discussing all of the things that were wrong with the car instead of trying to learn all of the things that were right-and then learning how to drive the thing.JJackson

At the same time, some of those guys with deep pockets also develope some really cool cars AND they can drive. However, a win is a win no matter how you get it

Due to our lack of deep pockets-its taken ten years to get to here.Glad the car is now considered "decent " by some.JJackson

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Last year at nationals-now car has 75 bumpers on front ,larger splitter, and rear spoiler.Will take some pix at Pro Solo next week.JJacksonClick to view attachment

[quote name='jjackson' date='Apr 22 2011, 06:03 PM' post='1464787']

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Last year at nationals-now car has 75 bumpers on front ,larger splitter, and rear spoiler.Will take some pix at Pro Solo next week.JJacksonClick to view attachment
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Cool picture. We need more, like action pictures. Great looking car.

I think our splitters as somewhat alike.

Mine doesn't do well with cones as it's aluminum and bends when I (make a big mistake and ) hit them square on.

I was thinking about using that poly resin board stuff, but can't find the lightweight stuff at reasonable prices.

It's a shame that Boeing closed their surplus store.

Thanks -race cars at a distance photograph well.When I bought this chasis,it was going to be my pretty race car-ran out of funds before we ever got to pretty.New splitter is 'alucobond' -aluminum outer layers with resin.Its almost a pound per square foot but strong-donated from a local chevy dealership (nice subcontractor) that was under construction.The front end really likes this years added weight.JJackson








Cool picture. We need more, like action pictures. Great looking car.

I think our splitters as somewhat alike.

Mine doesn't do well with cones as it's aluminum and bends when I (make a big mistake and ) hit them square on.

I was thinking about using that poly resin board stuff, but can't find the lightweight stuff at reasonable prices.

It's a shame that Boeing closed their surplus store.
[/quote]

[quote name='jjackson' date='Apr 22 2011, 07:52 PM' post='1464846']
Thanks -race cars at a distance photograph well.When I bought this chasis,it was going to be my pretty race car-ran out of funds before we ever got to pretty.New splitter is 'alucobond' -aluminum outer layers with resin.Its almost a pound per square foot but strong-donated from a local chevy dealership (nice subcontractor) that was under construction.The front end really likes this years added weight.JJackson


No question that is where you want to put the weight.

I'd like to show up and run XP or EMod, where ever the most cars reside, but the set up is different.

With XP you can put the ballast where you want so.... Ha, good point maybe I should just build another splitter with a thick steel plate. That is an easy place to add 75 lbs and destroy cones at the same time.

You know I could use the same splitter, just tie wrap on the plate.

I'm liking this.

.The front end really likes this years added weight.JJackson


No question that is where you want to put the weight.

I'd like to show up and run XP or EMod, where ever the most cars reside, but the set up is different.

With XP you can put the ballast where you want so.... Ha, good point maybe I should just build another splitter with a thick steel plate. That is an easy place to add 75 lbs and destroy cones at the same time.

You know I could use the same splitter, just tie wrap on the plate.

I'm liking this.
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Last year at nationals, I was gridded next to the Zust XP car.He was carbon fiber body with plywood splitter-I was steel bodied with carbon fiber splitter-Things that make you go Hmmmm.JJackson

[quote name='jjackson' date='Apr 22 2011, 08:46 PM' post='1464901']
.The front end really likes this years added weight.JJackson


No question that is where you want to put the weight.

I'd like to show up and run XP or EMod, where ever the most cars reside, but the set up is different.

With XP you can put the ballast where you want so.... Ha, good point maybe I should just build another splitter with a thick steel plate. That is an easy place to add 75 lbs and destroy cones at the same time.

You know I could use the same splitter, just tie wrap on the plate.

I'm liking this.
[/quote]
Last year at nationals, I was gridded next to the Zust XP car.He was carbon fiber body with plywood splitter-I was steel bodied with carbon fiber splitter-Things that make you go Hmmmm.JJackson
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1/4 inch standard sheet weights about 10lbs per square foot. Could easily add about 7 sq feet on the bottom of my existing splitter. Like one sheet that would bolted to the existing splitter. Might have to reinforce the aluminum fasteners that hold it on, but could figure something out.

How do you use fuel as a weight compensator?

So hold on here. Are you saying you've added weight in front of your wheels and you have noticed a benefit? I have ALWAYS wondered about this and never tried it.

Haven't tried it yet, but thinking it ought to work. Having the weight down low is good and there is no lower place on the car.

We need one of our chassis engineering guys to comment!

Maybe I need to pick Greg's brain on this. I'm sure he'd give me a good idea. Oh wait, that means I have to see him The first three AXs and the last two are generally all he ever get to go to anymore.

Maybe Jay has done testing for us

Our front end was better when we added the splitter - right before Nationals last year.We have 10 gallon fuel cell in front at spare tire location-run car between 4 and six gallons.This year we put on 75 bumpers and lightened support frame.The frame and supports ended up at thirteen pounds combined, and the splitter weighs almost 5.The splitter has been lenthened to the outer dimension of the 75 bumpers.The car is incredible in the front end this year.I'm going to drop some weight in the rear and lighten the rear springs by 25lbs.Every improvement that we have done,front or rear-affected the balance of the car.Now the back end is worse than the front.Before the weight was added at these locations,the front was the weak link.Definitely not the engineer that others are or are not-We are a trial and error outfit.JJackson

Love to hear how it goes. I think many of the best engineers still have learned by trial and error

When Leeds car was winning nationals regularly Greg was always changing things out and trying something new.

Greg (and JRZ) built my shocks-they were running larger fuel cell in front (never asked how much fuel they ran) than we were.This weekend, we will get to test at higher speeds than we have been running.JJackson

Leeds puts his ballast in the same place we did, passenger floor. IF you have to add weight, the front end might be a good spot, never tried it.

You'll need to attach a 70lb splitter very securely....overkill is good (Murphy gets involved). Should it come adrift for any reason it would be very ugly. An attachment to a fiberglass bumper/airdam would be insuficient, IMO. .

Brit had his first splitter break off taking the airdam with it......but it was light weight construction. 1/4 inch plate rolling under the car.......