It's getting close to 5 months now since I sent my money for this group buy and I'm starting to get annoyed as the lack of product and information really drags on and on.

I sent Shoe a PM suggesting that he should not have to be an apologist for AA and that perhaps it was time for George to chime in... I never received a reply so I'm going public with my frustration.

Am I the only one feeling a tad pissed about the delays and the distinct lack of input from George?

What's actually happening? How long is it going to be till we get these items?

Let the flaming begin,

Phil

No need to flame .... it will just be ignored like most things .... George is George and will always be until visited by the 3 ghosts ... Porsche Past, Present and Future.

I had let Shoe handle this and did not want to have two different people giving information.
The deal was 100 sets for the price so that we could do a run but that never happened. We then opened it to the other varieties usa and italian that we already had in stock. STILL did not get the 100 sets. I purposely had Shoe hold the money as I did not want to take anyone's money until I had product ready to ship. I funded the production for the required lenses out of my pocket (had to run 500 sets) hoping that I would get to the 100 sets we needed so kept the buy open. Finally the lenses were ready to ship. They are now being picked up by our customs agent to be here in February.
Shoe sent money in the last part of December but not all of it we are still missing about 1000 and so far have had one bounced check.
The usa and the italian have been sent out already the euros when they arrive. I am checking on air freight for 100 sets as we have many more sets sold at our regular retail so it may be possible to cover the freight costs.
That is it in a nutshell. The deal again was 100 sets and then start production for the price. That NEVER happened, I funded it myself only received the money AFTER the lenses were done and ready to ship, am still owed just over 1000 and one of you bounced a check

Please remember that I am in business to make money. The 914 has been very good for me. I am the chief enthusiast but also a successful business man (not smart enough though to be a REAL successful businessman, but we all "rise to the level of our own incompetence"

And that's "The rest of the story".

Thanks for the answer George.




See, contrary to popular opinion, I can be nice.

You have in my opinion always been fair and balanced unlike some others here and I have great respect for you and your comments and take them to heart (yes I have a heart!) Thank you for your humanity.

I know what the original terms for this group buy were George, and then the offer was changed without conditions, that's when I accepted the offer and sent my money. That money was sent in good faith based on your new deal. So referring to the original terms now is not ethical and basically contradicting yourself.

Funding the production yourself was your decision however please remember that all of the members that have sent their money have also funded the production by paying in full and in advance.

I actually require these lenses to comply with the Australian Design Regulations to get my car re-registered. These are not a "novelty item" for me.

In November a post from Shoe implied that the lenses were ready to ship. 2 days before Christmas we get a post saying they're held up in Customs but we can still order them or change to "USA or Italian version". If I wanted those I would've ordered them originally.

Then, latter in the original thread we get told to stand by for a big announcement. (Cue drum roll here) Guess what? You can still order them! That's the big announcement?

What happened to them being cleared by US Customs in January? Now we're being told that your customs agent is picking them up in February.

Is that the distinct odour of bullshit in the air?

Phil

Are you sure George? Didn't you give the OK to start producing them at 50 orders, because you that stated back on August 13th of the main thread?!?!?
Shoe even told you we didn't have 100 yet and you were the one who said go ahead and start collecting money and that 50 was good enough, and it looks as though he even called you to verify.

Is that not what happened??

Present. When I write a check I exect it to be cashed in a timely manner. I have a business to run and sometimes cash flow gets tight. I think MOST business owners can understand that. I have had to back out on a deal with Mikey for his engine seals for the same reason. Had my check been cashed 5 months ago when it was written it would have gone through without a doubt. I called myself out for you George because I can admit to my faults and failings. Humbleness, honesty and apologies.............try it sometime


Your dedication and love for these cars is ackowledged and appreciated by most if not all here, but time and time again, your arrogance,lack of businessmanship and lack of ethics has shown through. I have been buying all of my metal from another vendor because I GET IT ON TIME, I get what I orderd, I don;t get a surprise bill, and I get a discount due to the amount I buy. I deal with people who care about their buyers more than they care about their persona and ego.

Eric put it perfectly when he said he would like to like you. I would like to like you, BUT at the MUSR I never even spoke to you. I had seen who you were and wanted nothing to do with it. Your efforts to undermine the guys on this board , and others in this industry is simply abhorrent, and instead of backing down and dissapearing you continue to stir shit up on this board OUR board. Stop and think about the disdain many here have for your business, think about how your posts almost always go this way, think about how YOUR 914 site is a dead zone. Now ask yourself why. Sometimes when you think everyone else is an issue.....the issue is really YOU

Sincerely, Scott

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scotty b @ Jan 6 2011, 03:06 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' post='1413913' date='Jan 5 2011, 02:09 PM']
am still owed just over 1000 and one of you bounced a check
[/quote]
[/quote]

Present. When I write a check I exect it to be cashed in a timely manner. I have a business to run and sometimes cash flow gets tight. I think MOST business owners can understand that. I have had to back out on a deal with Mikey for his engine seals for the same reason. Had my check been cashed 5 months ago when it was written it would have gone through without a doubt. I called myself out for you George because I can admit to my faults and failings. Humbleness, honesty and apologies.............try it sometime


Your dedication and love for these cars is ackowledged and appreciated by most if not all here, but time and time again, your arrogance,lack of businessmanship and lack of ethics has shown through. I have been buying all of my metal from another vendor because I GET IT ON TIME, I get what I orderd, I don;t get a surprise bill, and I get a discount due to the amount I buy. I deal with people who care about their buyers more than they care about their persona and ego.

Eric put it perfectly when he said he would like to like you. I would like to like you, BUT at the MUSR I never even spoke to you. I had seen who you were and wanted nothing to do with it. Your efforts to undermine the guys on this board , and others in this industry is simply abhorrent, and instead of backing down and dissapearing you continue to stir shit up on this board OUR board. Stop and think about the disdain many here have for your business, think about how your posts almost always go this way, think about how YOUR 914 site is a dead zone. Now ask yourself why. Sometimes when you think everyone else is an issue.....the issue is really YOU

Sincerely, Scott
[/quote]

Amen to that Scott, could not have put it more succinctly, it appears that like so many other business people, once you get to a certain level the focus shifts from the customer. All that matters is the bottom line and how can I get more money from the punter.

All the rampant self promotion just highlights the bullshit even more. Aussies can smell it from a mile away and this guy reeks.

Phil

Phil,

If you are waiting to register you car because of the lack of lenses, I have a pair of Hellas I took off my car.

I would loan them to you.

Shipping back and forth would be expensive ..... I could see what it is if you wish.

Slits, your kind offer is more than awesome. To go to all that trouble for essentially a stranger is extraordinary. I am truly amazed by your generousity and trust. Thank you.

Even though it would get the car registered and shipping costs both ways isn't an issue for me, I won't prevail upon your kindness at this time.

That's not saying I won't prevail at a later date. I'd like to see how this pans out first.

So, again thank you Slits.

Phil

"Stranger"? Slits is stranger than most of the rest of us put together .................... That's why we like him.

The Cap'n

Damnit Cap'n ... now people will think I actually have friends.

A hobby and passion that's also a successful business. How cool is that?
Clearly a life to envy. You're a lucky person George.

I usually do not want to get involved in things that are not positive, but I think I'll make an exception here. It seems as if your case, George would be in a damned if he does and damned if he doesn't per your logic about the check. If he had cashed the check, you would have bitched about him having your money and not delivering the product. Otherwise, you would have just bitched about him not having the check. The real problem is the delay in delivery, and your lack of keeping up with your checking account. Neither should be grounds for trashing anyone, as mistakes and misunderstandings happen. In this case, I personally would have preferred to have kept my money in my checking account until the items arrived. I remember sometime ago when someone on this board complained about AA or someone else cashing checks before parts were ready to ship.

Regarding not talking to George at MUSR, that was your loss. George had a beautiful car, and took lots of time to share it along with some good stories about 914's to all who were interested. I also saw George under two different cars making repairs for other people. Others also helped repair cars, but George was there when he could help. On the second day, I and about 6 others ended up with George at the Fontana Lodge for lunch. Guess who bought lunch for all? George. Thanks George.

You guys need to grow up and stop all the bitching. If you don't like buying stuff from AA, "Just say no." If George posts something like the new top bumper covers, let it go. You make more noise about this than the original post. If you bitch about small items like this from AA, why not do the same for all the others like Mikey914 and Eric Shea. (By the way, I like both of these vendors and have done business with them also) These two just come to mind as member vendors who occasionally post in the garage for new items. I don't routinely read the classifieds, so I appreciate a quick heads up on items like the new bumper tops, Mickey's new seals, Eric's new calibers, etc. I am sure that more people benefit from these posts, including Georges, than are offended by them.

If you have personal problems with the service with AA, or others, just call them and handle it. Almost all the bitches I see here are attributed to poor communication on both sides. If your check hasn't been cashed, find out why. If your parts are not delivered, find out why. If you can get the parts somewhere else and you want to, such as your sheet metal parts- do so. Once all avenues of inquiry have been used, then you may have a reason to bitch publicly. However, I still think the public complaints should be limited to facts about poor service or parts. Then, they provide a means of notifying other people about the quality of the vendor. Personal attacks are unwanted and unproductive.

Hope I haven't offended anyone. JoeO



[quote name='scotty b' date='Jan 6 2011, 12:06 AM' post='1414140']
[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='Jan 5 2011, 02:09 PM' post='1413913']
am still owed just over 1000 and one of you bounced a check



[/quote]
[/quote]


Present. When I write a check I exect it to be cashed in a timely manner. I have a business to run and sometimes cash flow gets tight. I think MOST business owners can understand that. I have had to back out on a deal with Mikey for his engine seals for the same reason. Had my check been cashed 5 months ago when it was written it would have gone through without a doubt. I called myself out for you George because I can admit to my faults and failings. Humbleness, honesty and apologies.............try it sometime


Your dedication and love for these cars is ackowledged and appreciated by most if not all here, but time and time again, your arrogance,lack of businessmanship and lack of ethics has shown through. I have been buying all of my metal from another vendor because I GET IT ON TIME, I get what I orderd, I don;t get a surprise bill, and I get a discount due to the amount I buy. I deal with people who care about their buyers more than they care about their persona and ego.

Eric put it perfectly when he said he would like to like you. I would like to like you, BUT at the MUSR I never even spoke to you. I had seen who you were and wanted nothing to do with it. Your efforts to undermine the guys on this board , and others in this industry is simply abhorrent, and instead of backing down and dissapearing you continue to stir shit up on this board OUR board. Stop and think about the disdain many here have for your business, think about how your posts almost always go this way, think about how YOUR 914 site is a dead zone. Now ask yourself why. Sometimes when you think everyone else is an issue.....the issue is really YOU

Sincerely, Scott
[/quote]

You are absolutely right. I would be bitching if a business took my money and didn't get me the product I paid for. I was even understanding when he said he wouldn't start producing until he had 100 orders. The fact is, he said 5 MONTHS ago that 50 was good enough and he would start production and go ahead and collect the money.




I have bought from both of those guys, lots of stuff, and I would be bitching if they treated me the same way...sort of says something about them since there are no threads about their questionable business ethics...or Pelican, or CFR, of HPH, or GPR...

I actually expected my check to be cashed and not get the product for a while. I ASSUMED ( mistake on my part yes ) that when he wanted checks he wanted them to be cashed to begin production. He was afterall the one who said he wanted checks to start production correct ?

Yes my record keeping is atrocious, BUT as I stated I wrote the check when the money was there. since that time I have had setbacks, some on my part, some on my customers parts. It don't know if you have ever run a business before but by the sound of you statement I am guessing you haven't. I am an understanding person, times are tight for most out there, I had to use money that I had in reserve and I never checked to make sure a check from 5 months ago had been cashed. I'm not putting ALL the blame on George, but what you ignore is the CONSTANT stream of issues brought up here about him and his business. Yeah, he's a great guy when he's out on the campaign trail, but online the real George comes out. I realize it's easy to get dazzled by a fancy car,a free meal, and some witty banter. We have a lot of politicians that got where they are in the same manner. But if THEY were worth a damn, my customers wouldn't have to put their cars on hold, and my check would have cleared.

As for staying out of these things, most pf the time I do as well, I'm not shy about making my opinion known, but I tend to keep it shut, this time was different. How many times do we have to have this shit happen before it gets stopped ? George has made a lot of enemies here, he has his own site ot promote himself on, yet he continues to stir it up around here. In the past the shit stirrers got banned....................

Passion is great, but when it turns to obsession, things tend to get real ugly really fast

Firstly, you don't need nor should you expect input from George on this matter. I agreed to do this group buy and I am providing all information as soon as I get it and yes, I get it straight from George. You sent me a pm wanting an update and I posted one. I did not send you a personal update in a pm as I am NOT getting paid to do this and I don't really have time to send out 70 pm's all the time. I am doing my best to keep people informed but I have been out of town the last few days because yes, I do have a life outside of 914World.com. I personally don't think starting up negative bashing threads are going to help matters any. Customs is customs and nobody can control them. I have spoken with George and he is doing everything he can to try and get the lenses in for you guys. Some things just are not within our control.

Secondly, yes back in November I was told the lenses were ready. I was NOT told they were ready to ship, I just assumed this and passed it along that way. MY mistake, not Goerge's, you want to start a SHOE BASHING THREAD, go for it, I welcome the entertainment but also can assure you of this, I am not nearly as nice as George when pushed. Yes, I should have inquired further to get a clear meaning of what I was told but I didn't, once again, MY mistake. If you want to keep bashing go ahead, I can't stop you, but I can sit and shake my head at the adolescent immaturity of the whole thing and actions of a few.

Lastly, I will continue to keep doing my best to keep EVERYONE as well informed as I possibly can every chance I can. Still not going to make customs release them any sooner by bashing George, me, AA or anyone else for that matter. It is what it is and nothing more. I offer my sincerest apologies to all involved and truly wish there was some way I could speed it up but I can't. All I can do is vow to keep you all informed and offer my apologies for the delays. As for those of you who have received your lenses, I hope the quality and workmanship was worth the wait.


SHOE

Props to Shoe and to George.
I am one of the few that wanted USA lenses and mine arrived by Fedex today

here are some shots of the new ones in place.
The color is very dark red, the plastic is very clear and straight and they even came with new rubber seals

I know many on this buy are waiting for the Euro Lenses....if the quality is as good as my USA lenses, then it should be worth the wait.

If I knew how to post the pm I sent you on this thread shoe, I would. I didn't ask for, or expect a pm in reply. In fact, I thanked you for your efforts to date. The intent of my pm was to try and get a definitive answer on the status of the Euro lenses delivery. (that's Euro, not US/Italian that I beleive are available any time).

Fair enough don't you reckon, given the confusing and conflicting information that was being desseminated on the original thread and the fact that approx. 70 members had paid in full.

I know you're not getting paid but using that as an excuse is irrelevant, once you accepted the role and started taking the money like it or not, you're the man.

Regarding me personally bashing you on this or any other thread, that hasn't happened. Whatever I said about George I stand by. Personally I think you've been left out to dry by him.

If whatever I've said on this topic impacts on whether I ever actually get the mystery lenses so be it.

Phil

Come on guys, it's only $145.45 us.

It's not like you put down $$$,$$$,$$$.00 for a set of platinum bumpers from some SE Asian country that is not on any map.

I'll wait.

This thead is better then TV

Pleased to be able to provide your entertainment.

The latest update re delivery: picked up by customs agent (not US customs) is February! 7 months, are you kidding me. That might be OK with you, me on the other hand think it's excessive. So I thought I'd try and find out when I might actually recieve them. I hope that's OK with you.

The $ amount is not the point, the issue is the ridiculous lead time and the way the story keeps evolving. I don't think some parties are being completely transparent, when they should be.

Phil

...

Jeebus, enough already. I am sure that all of us coulda got these lenses a lot faster if we all weren't such CSOBs that we had to be part of the lower-priced Group Buy. I bet the 911 guys would get a real chuckle from all the whining in this thread. Lighten up folks. And Shoe -- thanks for all the work you've put into this...

Geoff

why not just ask for a refund directly? Not only are we CSOB's but so is George that's why these are being made on the planet Mars. Martians work for red peanuts. It's very hard to get things from Mars through customs. I already have lenses on my car, these are not the reason I can't drive it. I only ordered these as spares. I must admit, I find this whining and complaining very entertaining...

i learn new things all the time on this board...this weeks lesson:
DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN GROUP BUYS...
spend the extra 20 or 40 or 100 dollars and get what you buy when you buy it..and live a happy drama free life
i got this car as a hobby, a way to relieve stress and get away from all the bullsh&t i have to put up with just to make a buck.
it just doesnt seem worth the aggrevation...my 2 bits

Thanks Geoff, I really appreciate it.

Cool, I'll ask for a refund then.

Shoe/George, I'd like a refund.

Phil

I know guys that are into certain car models that have NOBODY MAKING NEW PARTS!!!!!

I, for one, am willing to make certain exceptions to the amount of time I will wait for hick-ups like customs hold-ups. So far - for this particular dollar value - I am willing to be patient. (sorry if this is a ton of money for some. If so, I am beginning to understand the frustrations)

Hey, at least the guy did not cash the checks months ago. I run my own business. I only send checks that I consider spent. If you run your books differently, I can understand why you are upset.

I am not saying I am happy at the length of this wait... but I trust this "Shoe" person, and although George seems to ruffle some feathers, he seems to be the vehicle (probably not the best use of the word) for "Shoe" to kindly step up and run this little offer. That deserves some thanks from me.

No offense intended to anyone.... I am just a long-time member that rarely posts much or speaks up... but I love the site(s) and I am thankful for all of the help from members and the occasional "group buy".

..... Even if they don't all work out as planned.

Cheers, guys. I hope a bunch of you do not try to cancel on this deal.

And many thanks to Shoe for setting up the buy and for subjecting himself to this vortex.

Chris

Just as a side note, when windshield seals were non-existent, I placed $5K in the hands of a dealer in Germany to buy 50-60 of them.

I waited one year .... when they were finally released, they all went to George and I got nada.

Dealer refunded my money.

I don't need these lenses. I jumped in on the buy to help Shoe out, so I can wait for the eventual outcome.

I understand Phil's frustration and not being able to register a car. I would also get antsy.

George may have a passion and makes money, but normally his communication and responses to problems is lacking. The attacks, while justified, may contribute to this lack.

My suggestion is to ignore the posts by George or AA.

My offer to ship Phil lenses still stands.

To me, the customs thing sounds like BS. I have shipped many things in and out of countries all over the world, and have never heard of customs taking over a month. If its taking a month to get something through customs, then you need a new customs broker. Sure, there are customs delays, but rarely more than 3-4 days. This group buy has seriously turned me off to AA. I have never ordered anything from the past, and will definitely not order anything from them in the future after this. Mikey914 probably could have made a mold and delivered these in less than 6 months. Maybe he would have been better for this...

If I was waiting for a set of group buy lenses to come from India to register my car when originals from the same company were on the shelf but cost more money, I would just spring for the higher cost rather than letting my car sit. That may just be me though. Maybe I am no expense spared Hussey.
We have always had factory euro rear lenses on the shelf though, at least ten sets but very expensive, over 200 dollars EACH
I myself about a year ago was forced to purchase new factory tail light assemblies at over 800 each our cost to get red lenses for our white and orange limited edition we were restoring. When one gets into a car deeply like this then there is no turning back unfortunately.http://porschebahn.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/1974-porsche-914-best-of-class-winner-at-the-hilton-head-concours/ got some good pr though

The euros are coming along with 1000 sets of others, more italian and more usa be patient and be rewarded with a great deal on them.

For you our detractors, feel satisfied and laugh that this cost our company out of pocket almost 40 grand that will take a long time to recoup as I had to order a thousand sets to get them run. 50 or so sales at the club price did not make a dent, and I will be sitting on stock many years to come.

Also please remember that we are only a phone call away at 800 792 4944 and salesmen are standing by to take your order. I and my staff will be here until the day I die so you can rest assured that there will ALWAYS be a place you can count on for 914 parts even more than the Porsche factory. Love it or hate it, Automobile Atlanta is here for you our fellow 914 enthusiast!

OK, I'll bite. George a couple of things you fail to understand and still haven't addressed. I'll point them out to you.

The timing of your/shoes offer just happened to coincide with me getting my car back on the road. I expressed an interest in being included in the GB by adding my name. I thought this coincidence was rather fortunate for me, and like 70 odd members decided to take advantage of a great deal.

Shoe then revised the number down to 50 (on your authourity) and contacted me via pm saying it was time to ante-up. After a couple hiccups and some emails, shoe got my payment via paypal within a couple of days.

That was in September, since then I've been continuing to prepare the car to get back on the road after having it sit in my shed for 11 years.

If I'd been told these items could take 6-12 months to get I would not have joined the group buy and purchased them elsewhere.

I've owned the car for 22 years. I've just spent another $12k in that time (since Sept) getting the things done that needed to be done to allow to me to get her back on the road.

I'll still need to throw probably another $20k at to get it to where I want it to be.

If I totaled up the money I've spent on this car over the years my wife would kill me, including mistakes and being taken by the shonks I reckon it would be around $60-70k!! If I want to throw $100K at it that's my choice.

Your lenses are a drop in the bucket. They haven't dented my budget.

You don't have dibs on the passion people have for these cars George. You might have the best, rarest, largest 914 collection on the planet. No doubt you've made a tidy living from these cars. I'm sure your knowledge on 914's is vast and you are an authourity on them.

All I want from you is a straight answer on when I might expect to recieve the goods I ordered and paid for. If you can't provide that, then as the title of this thread suggests it's time to send the money back and I'll take my business elsewhere.

Phil

I just want to know why it takes over a month to get from 'released from customs' to 'shipping out' Hell I buy tons of stone from China and it may sit in San Pedro for a few days or a week but once it's released I've got it at my yard within a day and out to the customer a day or two later.

Shoe has done much more than he planned I'm sure. Not much he can do about it. Lesson learned.

As for AA, when I got into this somehow I knew that it was going to be a long wait. I've needed new EURO lenses for a long time. The price on this buy made me pull the trigger.

I think the key to this 'Group buy' is that the lenses had to be made. Not like the GoPro buy.

I want to thank Shoe for doing this. I don't think anyone is mad at you for this delay. I already have real Euro's on my car. I only got in on this for spares. Although I think the delay sucks, it may not be George's fault either. I does however seem a little too long getting through customs. I will continue to wait without complaints because I don't think George or Shoe is defrauding or theiving from us and someday, some how I will get my lenses.