FYI - Two more articles this week that Porsche is moving toward another smaller "entry level" Porsche - whether called a Redux of a 914, 356-1a Speedster or 550 Spyder, or a Baby Boxster - the idea is the same: Lower base price than the current Boxster, Flat-4, probably mid-engined (so that leaves out all but 356 #1 in naming rights).

Of note to me, is that the first article indicated that Porsche's 2010 sales were about 95,000 - so our beloved 914s' best sales years of 73 & 74 were at 27,000+ & 25,000+ - and both would represent 1/4 of total worldwide sales currently. Even the averaged 113,000+ over 7 years - with the anemic 70 & 76 MYs is respectable by those 2010 sales figures, at 16,000+ per year, and beats the Boxster/Cayman sales for 2010.

So were the 914s REALLY an unloved bastard car!!??

Any wonder why they're considering it again?

BTW - the 4 will also help their CAFE fuel economy target fleet-wide, allowing them to keep producing & selling the 500 hp gas guzzlers - an added benefit to an entry Porsche since the 70's.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110124/CARNEWS/110129956

http://www.insideline.com/porsche/porsche-...our-engine.html

I'm still rooting for something that looks more Retro 914 with a Targa Roof, than a Baby Boxster or Spoof 356 styling - but then I'm definitely prejudiced to 914s!

One day I'll do my own styling take on this "Artist's Deception" that MT ran back in Sept. 09 (starting with using the clean 914 flush door handles & canning that goofy side vent on the 3/4), and post a pic here just for fartz-n-giggles -

Click to view attachment

Okay Porsche, I'm still waiting!

Could this be influenced by F-1 going to 4 cylinder turbocharged engines in 2013???

To do it right it really needs to be light like our cars.

It's all in the power to weight ratio, which could make a 2000-2500 lb. "New 914" handle as well as the Boxster/Cayman S with more HP & weight!

I am thinking that this newer engine should be Air Cooled and bolt right up to the 901 transmissions in our cars and yet still produce the "According to Autocar, Porsche's four-cylinder boxer engine will displace 2.5 liters and, in turbocharged form, will deliver 360 horsepower." That would make me very happy. I will not hold my breath.

Based on what I see everyday with modern Porsche engines, you'd not want this car for it's power plant!

Though they may be cheap to build, modern Porsche engines just don't seem to quite in the same league as their older, aircooled stuff.

Too bad the world is coming to an end before all of this...

It's all in the power to weight ratio, which could make a 2000-2500 lb. "New 914" handle as well as the Boxster/Cayman S with more HP & weight!

Power steering, adjustable sport suspension, airbags all around, airconditioning, GPS, stereo, catalytic converter, 5mph shock absorber bumpers, re-enforced door panels, etc. What do you think this thing will weigh when it finally hits the show rooms? I still don't think it will happen. Not when they make so much more on the more expensive models they sell.
Cheers, Elliot
PS F1 is going to a six cylinder??

Yeah, but we're supposed to have a helluva 914 rally & meet for it!

The proposed 2013 engine specs are for a turbocharged 4 cylinder at 2.0 liters. Ferrari is screaming, Porsche and Volkswagon are considering entering the fray if the engine spec holds up. F-1 is trying to get in tune with the times. They are also reintroducing KERS again this coming year.

VW already has a nice 2.0L turbo engine that puts out 200hp that Porsche could use.

So they plan to built a small Porsche roadster that shares platform and engine with VW.
They seem to have a flat four indeveloppement.
VW bought Karmann last year there are good chances this VW-Porsche will be built in this roaster specialist factory...

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a remake of Back to the future ... welcome in 1969

btw ... http://914meeting2011.com ...

As we used to say back in the day: "Why.....it's deja vu all over again!"
... wonder if they'll use the Karmann door plates again?

Great website Johannes , but far too slick for us rough-&-tumble 914 folks!
.... break out your bell bottoms & unbutton that shirt boys!

Call Subaru and hit the easy button. No more Porsche motor problems, car is then faster than the other top line cars. Oops.

Geoff, I think that's what they're referring to in the small Porsches article. However, that's an I-4 IIRC, which both has a higher CG (center of gravity) and is inherently less well balanced than a flat or 180 degree opposed 4 - which is the perfect arrangement for balance & lowers the CG in our 914s for better handling.

Recently, there was a Garage topic with a link to an article with the math formula on how to figure out the perfect arrangement by number of cylinders to balance an engine's combustion cycles - without extra balancing provisions. Or I may have read that in a print auto mag (maybe Auto Restorer?).

Yeah Brett, then they can make the badges with the 7-star logo added to the old VW-Porsche one, & start that whole marketing SNAFU up again!

seems a "no brainer", but there is NO WAY this car is going to happen. The margins are just too small - greed not speed governs the company now...

Long Live the Air-cooled Livery!

I wouldn't call it greed. Last time I check businesses were in it to make money otherwise we could call them Charities.

Selling a VW at Porsche price, this is what I call making margin. When Porsche was a stand alone company they had no way to make margin on a smaller than Boxster car. Now they are part of VW. If this car shares developpement, parts, investments, assembly line with a hot selling VW, then you can sell it at Porsche prices and make good margins. That's what they have done with the Touareg and what they are going to do with the new small SUV.

on the aircooled part!

But it's for the very reasons you stated, that Porsche must do something:

1. Reduce the overall MPG of the Fleet Sales (i.e.: all cars produced) to meet the new upcoming CAFE standards for avg. MPG - which enables them to keep producing the higher margin / low MPG high performance beasts.

2. Meet overall sales targets - low margins with higher volume can equal same net profits when all is said & done.

3. Continue an avenue for the flow of entry level buyers who will move up to &/or add to their Porsche fleet with higher margin vehicles at a later point, &/or ....

4. For existing high-end customers who want an economical DD Porsche sports car, in order to keep their high priced "babies" for weekend use.

It's really the same concept as adding an SUV, small SUV & Panorama 2 & 4 door options mentioned in the article.

It also gets back to their earliest flat-4-banger simple sports car roots of the 356, then 912 & 914 - but IMHO a revisitation of an aircooled flat-4 would be best, along with stripping down the car to +/- 2000 lbs. total wt.!

... although it would be as "Porsche" as was the 356 & 912/912E - a "Porsche tweaked VW," and as are the Toureg/Cayenne & new baby SUV!
... oh, and as our beloved little 914s!!

Not to mention the most important part cool to drive

I like the idea of a 4 cyl. boxer engine but I don't think it would be air cooled. I think the aircooled thing is about gone. Liquid cooled, computer fuel injection. Think how much quieter it would be.

You guys know I've only been hanging around here for a couple yr's, so I gotta ask; is this then the third Gen Porsche flat 4, mid engine car? If so, I would think ours might become a desirable car.

I think a small 2+2 NA styled to pay homage to the 356 A Coupe with light weight, a rear-engined 4 cylinder motor, and handling to match a Lotus Elise would sell pretty well. Keep the creature comforts to a minimum.

Did I mention light weight?

Hey Elliot, for those of us who kept the D-jet - they are already computer fuel injected since 1969!

The need to can aircooled fever of the 70's proved to be overrated, since they were able to make the aircooled 993 6's smog compliant into the early 90's.

IMHO the main advantage to aircooled is lighter weight for the total drivetrain/etc. & one less system to chase down leaks!

I was so glad to go to aircooled in my 914 in 75, after years of water cooled metal & fixing the wide miscellany of coolant leaks!

That depends on how you slice it, & whether you mean mid-engined flat-4 - or any flat-4 rear or mid.

1948-65 356 series were all flat-4 VW based engines in the back - but only 356 #1 was mid-engined
1950's 550 Spyder & 713RSK were souped up 356 flat-4's in a mid-engined layout
1965-69 912's used the 356 flat-4 in the rear
1969-76 914's were flat-4 mid-engined (plus 914-6s)
1976-77.5 912E was the 2.0L flat-4 back at the rear
... then nothing until whatever may be next for flat 4's

924/944/968 were I-4's up front

So by my count it would be the 3rd gen flat-4 middie, or 6th round flat-4 mid or rear - IF it comes to pass, and only counting street cars.
... IIRC the first 904's were flat-4 and streetable, as were the 550's were street legal, so maybe that's another generation in there?

Joe - that's what a BMW 3-Series if for, seating 4-5 with descent performance!
... BTW, nice family you have there, & I must say the family resemblance is uncanny!

I prefer to keep my Porsches true 2 seat sports cars!
... but then my kids are now grown & can use the BMW or Westy with the Grandkids - whenever they come along!

Honestly, I'd rather be proven wrong than right. I would love to see porsche bring back a smaller, lighter, less complicated, fast, fun and relatively affordable sports car. (and not just to meet energy usage quota's) The early boxster had promise - semi minimalist, no glovebox etc. - in a true sense a reinvention of Max Hoffmans speedster concept - but the latest versions including the 996/997 are an overly bloated, plastic, computerized, pretentious cruisers. (even though race versions of the 996/997 have been the most successful racing car of porsches history.)
The new "speedster" and GTS' are perfect examples....OK.. no more ranting - sorry!

Give the customer the option of ordering a boxster spyder or Cayman R with the GTS 408hp six!


Something four cylinder, turbo'd, mid or rear engined (I'd prefer something mid with the styling cues of the new 918) that would bring in a whole new generation of "porschephile".

Porsche will not bring back the air cooled cars. They wont meet today's emissions standards. As far as a four popper in the line up, who knows. Maybe a reincarnation of the 944 series. Makes sense if VW is driving.

Really? Apparently you haven't had an aircooled engine very long. They leak like a sieve and that is "normal". My Honda's don't leak oil or water, neither does my Dodge. The emissions issue will make aircooled engines museum pieces for eternity, thank goodness. They are too loud to meet the European outside noise regulations, will never pass the strict emissions requirements of today and certainly will never meet the requirements of the future. Plus the complication in the manufacture of those aircooled engines is another reason to do away with them. To assemble (on the manufacture floor) an aircooled 6 cylinder, Porsche was spending 21 hours. They cut that time down to 8 or so with the new engines. Of course that doesn't take into account how many of the watercooled engines have failed, but that is another story.

It will be called the "Spyder" and will be powered by the VW Golf GTI engine - it will look like this -

Click to view attachment

It will use the TFSI engine, which is very tuneable, so even though I'm sure it won't be a Boxster beater from the factory, it will easily become one through aftermarket tuners... I have one nearby with 400hp, so easily done.

So, no 914 rebirth, but the Spyder...

They do admit that the flat four is in development but it is a shortened 6, so water cooled etc, so far pushing out 360 hp turbocharged.

Still looks like a boxster

You can hardly call the fuel injected cars of the early seventies "computerized". They were able to achieve smog compliance with the 993 only at great expense and sophisticated computer control. The changes that are made in industry aren't made on a whim. There are some very smart people developing some very smart products. As much as we like the 914, I'm afraid it's pretty much seen it's day. Weather or not an acceptable replacement comes along, will be determined by the market place. Which is to say profit margins.

And it will be marketed in Europe as a VW and in the USA as a Porsche.

Oh no you didnt!

Hey Brett - No need to get nasty bud!

If you read my post above, you'd see that I've had my 914 since 1975 - which is 36 years by my count! Long enough for you? I bolded, underlined & italicized that part for you above, in case your missed that.

Actually, a properly maintained & gasketed aircooled motor does not leak, but that requires attention as soon as a leak pops up, which most owners tend to ignore until something more major is needed.

Really no different than oil, fuel & coolant leaks on any vehicle.

Look, we're all here supposedly because we love our air/oil-cooled 914s & old school classic 914s. I for one wouldn't mind seeing a modern small, light weight, minimalist sports car with the features of our 914s come along in the marketplace - & even an EV version with "legs"!

The reality is that internal combustion cars of all flavors - air/oil-cooled or water-cooled - are probably on their way out in the long term, so any of them will be dinos & collectors pieces in a few decades. Expect prices to escalate for the few survivors in good & running condition, but then "we all may be dead in the long run"! That's the trouble with the "long run" sometimes!

Elliott, I'm not convinced that air/oil-cooled issues cannot be solved with technology of today - noise, pollutants, power, etc. - it's just not being tackled by anyone AFAIK.

And that 914/411/412 ECU was designed by IBM - admittedly in the pre-PC days, but then our laptops have more computing power than the Space Shuttles' computers IIRC. So you have to take it in context of the time.

My point with the 914's ECU controlled EFI, is that we actually drive one of the groundbreaking production sports cars in the non-exotic price range of that day, with that, 4-wheel disc brakes, mid-engined & low CG, etc.

Just compare it to what it's competition offered at the time - 240Z, MGB, Midget/Sprite, Spitfire, TR4A/TR6, Karmann Ghia, Opel GT, P1800, Sonnet, etc. - most did not offer the full compliment of technological advances of our 914s - even if the 914/4 1.7/1.8 engines were more anemic than most wished.

Sometimes we lose sight on here in comparing today's technological advances, with how advanced our 914s were in 1969-76 for a mass market road car!

Our 914s really were ground breaking cars - even if incrementally - and therefore well worth both preserving/remembering & recreating in modern form - rather than being passed over & dismissed as some sort of "mistake" by Porsche today.

That's all I'm saying.

Cheers!
Tom
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