At the Marina Auto-x, Ken Holladay (sp?) towed his car to the event behind his RV (I would think anything with the towing capacity would work)

Ken or anyone else that does this, can you share some details or tips or pictures on how you setup the car and the supporting hardware???

I have a trailer, but sometimes it would be nice to tow the car without having to use the trailer.

Thanks

Mike,
There is a guy named Chuck Atkins that tows his 71 -6 with a flat tow. He took the bumper off and made mount that attaches to the bumper mounts and supported it inside (I think). He had a bra made to fit over it so it didn't look super wierd. It really was nice. I don't have any pics, but he is a member of Touring Car Club.
TouringCarClub I bet they could get you in contact with him. He is/was an instructor.

I've considered making a flat tow setup like this. A few local autocrossers do this. You can use a VW tow bar, and all you have to do is fabricate a way to attach it to the car. Most people fabricate something that bolts to the torsion bar covers and also bolts through the front trunk floor between the torsion bar covers (with a backing plate for strength).

Demick

I use to flat tow my car all over the place.

Used a VW tow bar as advertized in Hot VW in the ads in the back, Fab'ed a bracket to mount to the bumper holes. Take off the bumper, bolt on the bracket, hook up the bar with the pins, and roll....

I got it in the attic if you need a picture.

Paul

Interesting, that's my today project. Bought a cheapo on ebay. Plan is to put car brackets behind grills if there is enough room there. Looks pretty simple, but you know how that goes

And the target..

I sent Wattboy a towbar...dunno if he ever used it. I used to flat tow the Rocket all the time.

The problem is the sheet metal behind the bumper is only flat at the bumper mount areas. The rest of the area is radiused and it needs to be flat and square to the bar so the bar will pivot at the pins.

You see when you pull the bumper off.

Paul

I mounted it with a plate behind the t-bar mounts.

are there limitations with regards to turning or backing up while the car is hooked up?

it seems that the front wheels of the car would scrub when making any kinds of turns.

do the front wheelsl lock perfectly straight?

Yes, you can only back up if you're very stright and only go back a little bit before the wheels will start to turn right or left.

Can be a bitch when trying to get gas a a crowded station.

Paul

Would it hurt a car with a limited slip or locked diff? Is there any downside to towing that kind of setup long distances - wear and tear etc.?

Richard

FWIW my flat trailer with tirerack has just been put up for sale.... I dropped some coin and bought a 26 foot enclosed Haulmark.

Ill be PC and list it in the classifed also

My "tow bar" attachment hardware goes thru the grill holes in the front bumper. It fits snuggly against the upper inside corners. I made a plate to dress up the holes.

If you open the hood and look down, the bar slips in below the headlights and snug against the outside metal that forms the trunk. There are 2 bolts on each side that fasten it in place. The bar has nuts brazed on so the bolts can be put thru the trunk wall and attached with out a hassle.

Ken

Yes mikez sent me a VW towbar and Brad helped me make a bar that bolts in place of the bumper. Works fine for around town, not sure if I'd use it to go to a far away track day. Brad sez he's seen T-bar covers mangled and torn off and figured it was from tow bar setups.

As for backing up, there are special tow bars that allow you to do that.

I haven't used mine in a while since now it's more convenient to borrow your trailer That's probably what your real problem is. You want to use the trailer in Antioch and it's in Fremont or vice versa.

As usual with my projects, I goofed and mounted plates too far apart. Thought it said max 46" separation but it was 41". Reading comprehension!!! A few rubber plugs and skinned knuckles later, all is well. Brackets fit easily behind grills, so no cosmetic problem.

Nice 'u-joint' setup on towed end. Eliminates need to mount on a perfectly flat area. Now to FLAPS for light wiring. Can I tap into the 914 tail and brake lights?

Pic 2

Howard,

I really like your set up. Would you be willing to share some detailed info on its design; materials used, dimensions of components, and perhaps close up photos of the brackets mounted?

I also have a Santa Fe, a 2004 3.5 liter. How does yours handle towing the 914? Do you feel that the Santa Fe has enough power?

Thanks

Very nice

Paul

Howard, you should get some Porsche Cayenne badges for your Santa Fe. They look similar enough

Thanks for the kind words.
John, I did look at the Cayenne, but the Hyundai came with a better CD ($50,000+ )

Paul, guess you figured that out, too. I have the 2.7, and while it does pull OK, bet the 3.5 with its low speed peak torque would do much better.

Installation was just drilling 4 1/2" holes. Piece of cake. Reaching behind to tighten the nuts was interesting, but doable. Here's the link to the kit. $45 plus shipping. Nicely made, and nice people.

To rave about the Santa Fe a bit, it has the best build quality I've ever seen. No Porsche, MB or BMW comes close. And for a POS Korean car, it has everything from leather to bun warmers to traction control to a 4cam 24valve motor that sings. Don't know how they do it at the price.

And no comments about the license plate?

Somebody please explain this "flat-towing" rage that has you guys in it's grip; yeah, I know, we're supposed to be cheap bastards. Now I don't tow a race car but if I did, I would most certainly use a trailer; the only time I had to tow our teener, I used a trailer. I've seen these guys in their multi-megabucks motor homes go cheap and flat-tow their car/jeep/SUV and cannot believe they would skimp in that regard! For safety concerns alone, I would use a trailer, not to mention what would happen if the car became damaged at the track which rendered it un-towable!

I haven't flat towed since this: . I'll tell the story if it sparks any ones interest. I think I did on Rennlist back when it happened, but I might not have...

-Kevin

Howard,

It all looks simple enough. I went to the link you posted. This auction is for the complete package, including mounting hardware?

Only drawback I see is the fact you can not have fog/driving lights installed.

Rgreen914,

A trailer can be a PITA. You have to maintain it (lights/tires), store it, get a tag for it, deal with the ramps, etc, etc, etc. I know because I have a car I can only trailer.

For a autox car, flat towing makes at lot of sence. Pull two pins and your ready to drive.

For the RV crowd it is the same issues.

Flat towing or using a dolly is simple.

Paul

Hope you put some backing plates behind those brackets. Even with backing plates, I'd be a little nervous that the sheetmetal in that area isn't strong enough. But I haven't looked at it recently. You probably looked over it closely and determined it is fine.

Demick

I built one that bolts to the front suspension mounting points (you have to remove the valance to use it).

I made a cross bar with brackets that pick up the three mounting points for the front of the a-arm on each side. The "protector" bracket on the front bolt also has to come off.

I used a universal tow bar with U-brackets that just bolt to the cross bar I made.

I can install it in about 10 minutes. Very solid and I have towed with it quite a bit.

Tapping into the lights should be easy. You will need to tap into lights for turn signals, brakes, and running (parking) lights. But you should be able to do this without having to run wires all the way to the back of the car.

For running lights, you can splice into the wires at the front turn signal buckets. Splicing into the wire for the right running light will also power the right side marker, and the right rear running light. Then splice into the equivalent wire on the left side of the car.

For turn signals, it's the same deal. Splice into the wire for the right front turn signal, and that will power the right rear turn signal light as well. Same on the left side of the car.

For the brakes, the easiest way would be to run the wire to the brake pedal switch (running wires from the front trunk to the passenger compartment is easy), and splice into the side of the switch that only gets power when the brake pedal is depressed. That will power both brake lights.

Should be really easy. Running wires from the passenger compartment to the rear trunk is tough, and this method avoids that alltogether.

Demick

I am setting up a 76 for flat tow, I welded the bumper shocks solid and after removing the bumper, attach to them.

Used the same setup on my 924 and towed it with a '76 GMC motorhome. worked great, should be even better with the 914 as its lighter.

Putting the bumper back on is a 10 minute job.

I flat tow'cause its cheaper!

I already have a trailer, it's a storage issue for me, I don't want to make my nieghborhood look like cr@p, so no storing the trailing in front of my house for extended periods of time.(no room on the side either)

Currently I keep my trailer at my job which is 50 miles away, and it's inconvient on the weekend or if I wanted to trailer the car unplanned and then I'd have to do a 100 mile round trip

To me it has nothing to do with cost, you buy it once and it's done, it's the storage that is a PITA

No replacement for a trailer, but it is handy. I'd like to have a nice transporter (with 962 or RSK, please) but for now the flat tow and the 914 will have to do.

Demick, thanks, sounds good. Would I then be charging the battery in the towed car?

I'm surprised, I thought it was only the Electric Vehicle guys who obsessed about tow bars.
I set up a tow bar on mine, it's also 3000lb and I've heard that torsion bar mounts crack anyway so I made mine extra strong, I've got a picture here somewhere I'm sure...
First the frame to make sure it stays attached to the car, this was then welded in place.


From the outside:


And on the car (bad angle, I know)


As for towing with them, I now only do local. I've flat towed to Vegas and Portland (from the Bay Area) but I get the feeling it's a bit hard on the car. Though really it should be no worse than driving that distance.

Warning! Tow in neutral with the parking brake off and the ingition unlocked. Put the key in, turn it on, just barely turn it off and do not pull the key out.

I wired my lights direct. All the wires are available up front drivers side where the gas tank was except the brake light which I connected to the brake switch down by the pedal.

hth,