There has been lots of interest in the corvair power plant over the years as a possible source of cheap HP for many vehicles. There are used in experimental aviation, dune buggies, buses (such as mine), and in place of many other air cooled VW power plants. They are fairly cheap to buy and build, very easy to build and maintain, and plentiful with readily available parts from several suppliers.

The main divide in the corvair engine line took place in 1965 when the displacement of the engine was moved to 2.7L and was offered in a NA 110HP, NA140HP, turbo 150HP and turbo 180HP. The only differences in the long block between these engines are the nitrided crank found in all but the 110HP, and the heads: 110 had one single barrel on each head, the 140 had 2 with one acting as primary and one as secondary. The turbos had a single barrel blow through setup.

The heads are the major limiting factor in the design. They are not built in an intuitive way and rob much hp. The 140 head had bigger valves, but like its 2.0L TIV analog, would drop valve seats due to the limited amount of material between the seats in the head, and the inability of larger seats to shed heat as well as smaller seats. This can, and has been overcome by those who have been rebuilding these heads fro decades by making sure the crush tolerance on the seats are correct, and staking the seats in place.

Currently, you can get a set of rebuilt, 140hp larger valved heads, with new hardware and no core for about $1200 from Corvair Ranch in Gettysburg, PA. I bought a set that was rebuilt and had the plenums taken off for tri porting for $1500 shipped off of ebay from Starr Cooke in El Cajon, CA, another well known Corvair entity.

Modified with plenum removed for individual runners:
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The above uses an adapter that allows the placement of Weber triples. My set came with this adapter.

Here is a head with a stock plenum, modified with bungs for FI. This is a 140 head as it has two carb bases on it:
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Standard engine:
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One of the cool things that many ACVW folks like is that the corvair engine has stock hydraulic lifters on it that use standard lifter, push rod, and rocker parts from Chevy. Easy and cheap to obtain.

Another great feature that I like over ACVW is the box design on the case. The top and bottom come off and allow for any maintenance. Swapping rods, bearings, what ever, is easy.

One thing you hear time and again is the claim of the cooling system tossing belts. This is an old problem that is not very common in the corvairs today as it is understood what was causing this.

First, the original fans has pitched blades like a typical fan. This causes a lot more load on a belt when the engine RPM increases and the belt attempts to speed up the fan. The pitched fan resisted enough to cause the belt to pop off. This was solved vie placement of a zero pitch fan setup. Less resistance and adequate cooling.

The other issue causing tossed belts is actually the tendency on the mechanic/owner to tighten the belts too tight. This is a sure fire proven way to toss a belt. Anyone who has messed with the belts on a 944 understands how picky some systems can be, but how well they run when properly maintained and installed.

In many ways, the corvair cooling system is superior to ACVW systems. Tangerine racing is using these horizontal fans in upgraded cooling setups .

Corvairs being used in aviation:
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A great site with tons of info and pics by Mark Langford:
http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/

I understand that the valve springs are made of chewing gum and the cranks use a special bearing that is created using the blood of children.



Zach

The corvair engine rotates opposite of most engines. This is a problem when one is interested in mating it to a different drive train. The prevalence of these engines in swaps using such drive trains allows for the ease of finding the parts to reverse the rotation of them. All that is needed is a cam and reverse dizzy gears.
Here is a link to Clark's Corvair site and the kit.
Current list price for a reverse cam (comes in several grinds) and dizzy gears:

Cam - $261 (up since when I bought mine)
Gears - $182 (Was $90 when I got mine)

I did not use my reverse parts as I ended up using a corvair powerglide auto tranz. Also, Clark's is only one vendor. There are many and most under cut Clark's significantly.

The part to mate your VW/Porsche tranz to a corvair engine is not usually hard to find either.

Dont be a dick, you tubby bastard!

Dont think that these engines can be made to kick some ass? Google the Yenko Stinger and read up

Only SOME of the suppliers for these engines/cars:

Clark's http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/main -- best on line catalog, pricey

Corvair Ranch http://www.corvairranch.com/ -- Jeff, the owner, is a great guy. Good prices. My favorite.

Larry's Corvair Parts http://www.larryscorvair.com/ -- Larry is nice. I got a package deal from him for parts.

Many have purported that these engines are too expensive. I bought a set of headers for $200, and just changed my ring and pinion to a different ratio for $30. Doing the same for a 914 is at least $800 for the r/p, usually more. I rebuilt my posi traction for $75, too

the engine was the only thing other than my mom in 67 to survive when she got hit. Car was almost split in half.

Sherman - set the wayback machine to last month:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=114810&hl=

I'm glad you finally showed up Doc.

The problem with the corvair wasn't with the engine so much as it was with the handling characteristics of the swing axle suspension. They fixed that in later years but by then it was too late. Other than that, they might have lasted a bit longer. I had a friend who had the 180hp turbo and it was fasssst.

The ultimate engine!

Using 94mm TI VW p/c you can bump the 2.7 to a 3.1 It is pretty much the most you can get with the engine reliably.

Here is where I first saw it:
http://www.corvairkid.com/mm01.htm

If you look at Mark Langfords link in the earlier post, he uses this on his aircraft engine. Ray Sedman is a guy who at least used to do this conversion. It is not cheap if you pay for it to be done, but the machine work is not too bad if you know of a reputable and inexpensive machine shop. I have done this conversion 2x and both times it was not too expensive. I did make friends with the shops, though The first one was sold when I received a 911 2.7 for my 914 and figured that was easier to do (not so!).

On ebay right now you can get the p/c all machined for $1700. Kinda steep.

What is needed (and this is what is on my bus).

Barrels
- Need to have about 0.3 in removed form the base
- Bottom stud holes drilled for corvair spacing
- cut fins on center barrels (easy to do on your own)

Pistons
- milled material off of the skirt at the pin boss to clear opposing rod end

Rods
- open up small end for VW wrist pin
- oil holes drilled in small end for floating pin (stock is stationary)

Case
- open up registers for VW skirts, head studs need to be left in the case so as to preserve the material and threads that these go into.

Heads
- fly cut open to fit 94mm jugs.

This is not a necessary modification, but hard to resist. A set of 8 (I have one guy that will sell me 6) p/c with rings runs about $350

Saw it, didnt need it. I have enough cars.....well, I dont have enough space for MORE cars.

TURBO!!

The turbo was archaic. But, it did make more HP. I have not seen it done, but I bet that a better turbo and stronger rods would really wake one up. I will likely try this on the bus in the future

Here is a 150, looks the same as a 180. Like a monkey with a fire hose
Notice also in this pic that the oil filter is vertical. The adapter to do this is easily available, cheap and a popular conversion.

Thanks Dr.
Lots of good info, most I didn't know..
Growing up, a friend down the street, father had a Turbo convt.
This was at a Dark Side DE last year..
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whats this thing weigh in at?

Damn the Nader torpedoes, full speed ahead!

Cool shit Doc - keep it coming!

Corvairs are cool as shit cars. After Mike showed me the resources that are nearby for them he made me a convert. I want to build one in a bad way. Either just a motor or the full car. Triple Webers, 3.1L, headers, fucking awesome.

Zach

I've loved them since Grade & HS in the 60's! My Great Aunt used to let me drive her 63 Monza that she got new - White with Blue interior - around Pittsburgh area back in the day.

The 67-68 180 HP Turbo-Corsa 4 spd. Convertable in the metallic blue with those wide white hood/trunk "stripes"/areas like the Malibu SS396's came with, & an ivory interior - down the street in San Diego was my fav!

..... but you'd be far better off Zach building it in the best way!

I would like to know what a converted engine would weigh. I do know that the stock flywheel as well as the bellhousing are a heavy combination that is not needed in a 914. I have only seen Bill Fisher mention that it is "75lbs" heavier than a 1600 T1 VW.

Also, Bill Fisher's book "How to Hotrod Corvair Engines" has some good information on VW and Porsche conversions.

-Rob

Dr. Evil,

Thanks for bringing some Truth to the topic.

I've been thinking about more HP for my '74 2.0.

Looking at Raby 2270 Kit, somewhere around $10,000

$7,100 for Kit
$1,500 for SDS-EFI
$1,500 for Tangerine Header
++++++++++

Porsche Flat 6
Core ?
Rebuitd ?
Carbs, or Trottle Bodies?
Oil Tank?
Etc etc.

$10,000 - $15,000???

Subaru
Motor Low Miles $2,500
Header ?
Mounts?
Cutting up body and running water lines?
++++++

I checked a couple of the links you provided and a Complete Airfilter to Oil Pan $3,000ish
Mount?

Hmmmm, leaning, Leaning, LEANing, LEANING - I have to do some more research but damn that's going to be hard to beat.

Add that I can drop the 2.0 set it aside and just possible use a new motor mount and swap it back in needed.

Hmmm.

Smitty

I dont know the weight. It may be in the repair manual, but I dont know if it is dry, stripped to the long block or what.

The bell housing is light aluminum, but not need in the 914, as stated.

$3000 is for one that you pay for most of the work or buy the fancy 3.1 parts. I did the 3.1 by buying the parts and having them machined for me.

Here is a link to an auction from Larry's corvair for just the pistons and cylinders. Too expensive, you can do it local and buy the parts yourself for much less.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CORVAIR-VW-...sQ5fAccessories

One from Starrcooke for less, but lower displacement. Comes with rods Not as bad.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Corvair-VW-...sQ5fAccessories

Clutch and adapter for $400. This is about the right price. Not bad.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Corvair-Eng...sQ5fAccessories

Holy crap, a twin turbo vair engine starting at $1500
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Corvair-Twi...sQ5fAccessories

I think I am making my point

True that. I have a serious jones for an LM coupe 4-spd. I'd take a 110 or a 140.

Sooo, then is this 63 convertable with no engine or tranny worth anything?

yep worthless..give me 50 bucks and i will haul it away for you

Looking at data from the pelican forum and the corvair center, the corvair engine converted should weigh approximately the same as a 2.0 TIV or even less.

That is ~321 lbs for the 2.0 vs ~284 lbs for a VW converted 110hp Corvair engine. A complete 110hp engine was weighed at 312lbs and that includes the flywheel, bell housing, complete exhaust system, and all other accessories.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/technical_..._tech_specs.htm

http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,258166

There's little fairies that open the intake plenum and sprinkle magic dust over the distributors to make them run backward.



Oh my, the new admin boy was caught cursing...

WORST ENGINE EVER !!

A quick search turned up a value of 440 pounds for a Porsche 3.0 engine.
http://www.dennigcars.com/Model_pages_en/9...g_targa_eng.htm

3.0 has two over head cams and related hardware to drive them/house them, big oil pump, etc. So, that number makes sense.

Also, more oil for the 3.0. The 3.0 is a bad ass motor, but heavier.

Nice summary- I offer a couple of clarifications-



The original 1960 was 140 cu.in. '61-63 they went to 145 with a bore increase, and the move to 164 (2.7L) was a stroke increase in '64, not '65. If you're building a '64 engine, there are some cylinder barrel and head differences from '65 and up that you need to know about...

There was also a base engine, 95 hp, below the 110 for all years. It used the non-nitrided crank along with the 110hp. But even in this form, it was forged steel, not cast.

The turbo came out in 1962 at 150 hp. And didn't go to 180 hp until '65. The '64 turbo was still rated at 150 hp even though it was on the bigger 164 cu. in. engine. All turbos were draw-through, not blow-through, single barrel Carter YH side draft carbs. Interestingly, three of these carbs were used on the original 1953 Corvette blue flame six. There was significant turbo lag. Chevy really simplified the installation though, by using a pressure retard on the distributor instead of a vacuum advance. Static timing was 24 degrees BTDC, which advanced centrifugally and then retarded under pressure. My own '63 Sypder convertible started showing positive boost at around 2500 rpm, and topped out at 10 PSI (20" Hg) by maybe 4200. I actually liked the turbo lag. For freeway passing, you could feel yourself pressing into the seat as the vac/pressure guage climbed above zero.

I don't recall any issues with dropped seats except with the big valve 140 heads.

Lifters and rockers were based on Chevy desings, but different. Pushrods were unique as they have a side bleed hole to lubricate the rocker boxes. This is necessary because the hydraulic lifters operate with zero lash, which shuts off much of the oil flow to the head. I actually am running Corvair pushrods in my T4 hydro engine for that reason- stock length fit perfecdt!

My own three Corvairs (110hp-'64, 140hp- '65, and 150 hp- '63) were indestructible, I'm convinced. Totally reliable, easy to maintain, and on and on.

This really is a great direction if you are thnking about a swap for your teener, a few posts back the name Starr Cooke popped up, he'd be a wealth of info on this subject I think GM contacts him for info when necessary ... although Dr Evil appears to be well informed on these things.

As I said earlier I have had years of experience with these engines as well, mostly in the area of sand cars very little in streetable form. Most of the people I delt with were after the big HP numbers so big bore, stroke and related periferal work was the norm. Like Dr Evil and others have said reverse rotation is really the only consideration it must be part of any project unless some other compatable drive train is employed, just remember to select the proper (most likely straight) directional fan at the time.

Great thread Doc!

The big limitation in the cylinder heads is exhaust flow, not so much with the intake. I've been told by some very knowlegible Corvair hot rodders that the stock 140 2-port intakes can flow more than enogh for what the stock exhaust ports can get out. The problem is the location of the pushrods, causing the T4 style exhaust stub pipes to be smaller and "kinked" a little to clear. The solution is an angle port conversion where the direction of the exhaust is directed away from the pushrods and made larger - that uncorks the head for any serious intake modifications - like the yummy 3bbl Weber converion!

Couple of other links of interest:
American Pi - some very nice high-end (and expensive!) 'Vair hardware
http://www.american-pi.com/corvair/corvhome.html

Rear Engine Specialists - been into hot-rod Corvairs for a loooooong time:
http://rearenginespecialists.objectis.net/...-21.5546474873/

Fellow buggy guy with some trick Corvair EFI hardware:
http://www.blackhawkengr.com/

and here's a good youtube of a tricked out 'Vair engine with lots of goodies running:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzicgyjY12E...feature=related

Had two Corvair powered vesicles.

A VW framed dune buggy that the previous owner had welded in the transaxle and engine into the VW pan, Not pretty bit worked. Main problem with it was that it did not have enough weight in the front. If you floored it and the rear tires actually griped the front end would come off the ground which was cool, however if you got caught in the rain it would not steer which was not cool. Ended up welding large chucks of metal to weight down the front.

Also had a late 60's Corvair that I loved, however if you used the recommended grease in the front wheel bearing the wheels did not like to turn on snow covered streets and the cold winter. Got the car with rust problem and it was it's final demise as I was young and it was my only car.

Both power plant preformed great and gave me no issues. The only issue I had was with a choke linkage that jept falling off for some reason, just jept spares in the glove box..

Never entered my mind about using one of these engines in a 914. Been starting to look for a 911 power plant but may need to consider this if I can do it with out to much customization to the car. better with nuts amd bolts then welding and body work.

A note regarding the (upright blade) cooling fan: all the fins have a vertical rib cast onto the back side, which becomes the upwind side when rotation is reversed. These ribs are there to stiffen and strengthen the fins. If they're left in the airstream, the fan won't move enough air for effective cooling, as they create significant turbulence leading to cavitation. The difference in air movement is substantial based on our empirical research.
When we cut down the fans for T4 installation it's no biggie to remove the ribs, but I wonder what the effect on strength is with a full dia fan.

"A note regarding the (upright blade) cooling fan: all the fins have a vertical rib cast onto the back side, which becomes the upwind side when rotation is reversed. These ribs are there to stiffen and strengthen the fins. If they're left in the airstream, the fan won't move enough air for effective cooling, as they create significant turbulence leading to cavitation. The difference in air movement is substantial based on our empirical research.
When we cut down the fans for T4 installation it's no biggie to remove the ribs, but I wonder what the effect on strength is with a full dia fan."

The fan appears to be very lite in the first place, so is strength really an issue? Motor turning at less than 6,000 RPM?

I'll be running up to a local Corvair place on Monday to take a look at some motors and see what they hold.

Possibly pickup a mostly complete motor to start playing with.

Smitty

Using a corvair transaxle would also neutralize the "spins the wrong way" issue.

Zach

Would it? Didn't the Corvair hang the engine out behind the transaxle a la the 911?

I've only owned and driven turbo versions. I've always liked them. The turbo setup was "simple" probably because it was a production car and simple screwed up less.
There was no need for a waste gate since the size of the carb and the muffler limited boost.
The 215 V8 turbo of the same era had higher compression and needed some sort of Water Injection and Owners forgot to fill the injection fluid bottle and fried motors..
That = not simple enough.

Many ways to modify, as stated earlier.. The only issues I ever ran into were the valve seats and the cam gear needing to be bolted on because the gear was aluminum and tended to elongate the keyway otherwise. Never spun off a a fan belt myself though.

Last fall I sold a 64 Turbo Engine and Transmission as cores for 250.00. Engine was complete..and it turned over with a wrench on the pulley bolt.
It ran when I removed it from the car about 30 years ago. I posted it on Craigslist and only 1 guy came to look at it.

Hemming's featured Corvairs at their Concours last fall in Vermont. Here is a picture of a prototype Mechanical Injection Motor they has displayed there. Now that would have been interesting ??

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When I got My learners permit at 15 1/2, My dad bought Me a 62 turbo Spyder. Very cool car, especially liked the interior touches reserved for the turbo; seats, gauges, badges etc.. Saddly it never saw My 16th B-day (wish I hadn't smoked that fatty). Oh well, one more "Oh well'.

My older bro had 9 (mostly inoperable) of them in the yard at one time by the time he was 18. His dd was a turbo spyder.
I never drove one.

The fans have been run in reverse on many engines in harsh conditions in the desert on sand rails and have done fine.

To install a corvair engine into a 914 should take ZERO modifications to the body. You will need to fab a mount that can use the stock mount points (this is very easy), and engine tin (also easy now that I have done it once). Thats it.


For those of you with more experience than me that have posted, and corrected my info, THANK YOU! I appreciate it

All of this makes you wonder why VW & Porsche didn't make a 6 cylinder version of the type4.

Pictures of the modifications to the engine tin would be useful, as well as the engine mounts. Even pictures of the existing (stock ) mounts and location would be good.

Used to want one of these when I was younger.

-- brett