Well after doing the standard Spring clean-up on the old girl last week, it looks like the valiant efforts of the 36 year old Saturn Yellow to protect the body are starting to fail. But before I start putting together a serious savings campaign for a full-bore repaint I need to ask what I should plan for as this is very new territory for me. I would be having a professional shop do the prep and repaint as I've got zero talent in this area. I figure rust repair costs will just have to be one of the unknowns at this stage so I'm really looking for a paint-only figure.

The 914 in question lived almost its entire life in Santa Barbara, CA and was never in an accident so far as I can tell. A hell-hole repair was done by AA two years ago right after I bought the car and now the windshield base on the drivers side where it meets the fender line is starting to bubble. No doubt there is more to be found but that's what I know for sure.

So the main goal is to get the car repaired and preserved before the rust gets any worse. The plan would be for me to disassemble the entire car and then have a good shop do a presentable repaint in the original color and take care of any rust issues found. In other words I'm looking for perfect metal not perfect paint.

So any help on what I should plan dollar-wise for for the prep and repaint would be MUCH appreciated. Of course any help with locating a good restoration shop in the MD, VA or PA area would be very cool too...

Thanks everyone,

John

Try Scottyb on here - he's close & 914-wise.

Cost me $15k, what, 5 years ago? 6? Full, complete, everything, in/out/top/bottom painted. Did also include rust repair and bodywork. That would make the paint/labor by itself worth, oh... 1/2 that total. Maybe as much as $10k

paint and supplies could be 1k
80 hours to prep
10 hours to paint
80 hours to sand and buff

That is pretty typical, with no body work, no real rust repair.

Rich

I'd be very careful before I sent my car to a bodyshop for metal work. 95% of them will get it fixed up nice for paint but not dig in far enough to eliminate rust issues. Hopefully Scotty or Rick chime in.

IMHO, the nuances of the 914 make it almost impossible to give you a general price quote without digging into it. Until your car is in pieces with the paint removed who knows what you have. Most charge labor rates on metal repairs. The time needed for the repair will be dependent on how bad and where the rust is.

Here's Mepstein's car that Scotty is working on now.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...amp;hl=mepstein

Mine was $8K. I did some of the prep work myself (taking parts off and such) but it was a drive-in and drive-out paint job. There was something on the order of $2K of actual repairs in that. This was exterior-only (plus the bits of interior that had needed fixing) in the original color (or an approximation thereof) with no real extras.

Labor prices vary greatly from area to area (I think Silicon Valley is one of the more expensive areas) but it would be easy to pay a whole lot more for a top-quality job.

A scuff-and-spray can be had pretty cheaply. The guys in GRM have gone to their local Big Chain Body Shop ™ and gotten good results for well under $1K. But they would trailer the car in with all of the major stuff already dealt with, and they found a shop that actually cared about the results. Not all of them do.

With rust repair, the sky is the limit...

--DD

I actually think $15K is a semi-realistic budget for a complete with some moderate rust repair.....so I would pray for little rust and plan for $18K.

Many thanks folks. Exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Wonder if Scotty will have room for one more anytime soon. Guess there's only one way to find out...

WHat has been stated is pretty much the relm. It all depends on how bad the car is, how much you do, and how nice you want it in the end. I have done cheapo resto's with rust repair for around 8000.00, but the quality was not up to my standards, and I used el cheapo materials. As far as I know the owners were pleased with the results. More typical you are looking at 15,000 assuming there is rust repair ( mainly hell hole and floor ) and that is a factory finish with the appropriate orange peel. Show quality over restored glassy cars are almost impossible to give any kind of an estimate on. Check my half assed website to see my mid level and nicer work. Feel free to contact me, my doors are almost always open Oh, and I will be at Hershey if you want to meet up

http://kahikocustoms.com/wordpress/?page_id=6

Not trying to steer you away from Scotty or any of the other professionals on here, but the people who do REALLY good work (Like Scotty), are going to be busy no matter what the economy or season.. However if you found some shop local to you that you could pitch in and be buddy buddy with you could probably get a paint job with rust repair pretty cheap because they NEED the work.
The trick is to find the guys that work on old hot rods. They know rust repair and they spend most of the time on that. There is one shop next to my work who does good work (Not the BEST, but good work) and he charged a guy 3k for a full paint job on an old 50 chevy (It was a black paint job to), It was a pretty good paint job all things considered and would have probably cost 6k or more at another shop that wasnt hurting for the work. This was a down to metal job with a little bit of rust repair. Granted this is california where there is less rust, but you might want to spend some time checking out some local shops. The good thing about this is you can constantly check up on the car and can lend a hand or beer..

My uncle ran his own body shop as well and did good work and charged a decent rate as well.


BUT know that if your looking for a spectacular job then you are going to pay the spectacular price.


Just my opinion of it as a cheep ass .

I disagree with what Andrew is suggesting even though I'm sure he means well. 914's have some very specific issues with rust and taking it to someone who understands the issues and knows how to deal with them may result in not only a better repaired car but a cost savings as well. There is a certain baseline time and cost involved to repairing these cars. Someone doing it for the first time may take much longer and may not do the proper job even if they are skilled with bodywork. My thread goes off track quite a bit as far as documenting the rustoration part of the car but Scott (Scotty B) and I have spent quite a bit of time off thread going over the car and making sure things are handled correctly. I also know that Scott has pride in his work and will stand behind what he does. The guy who has good skills but is desperate for work might do something that will come back to bite you later. Some shops have even closed down overnight and left their clients empty handed.

I always liked the saying - Cost is only an issue in the absence of value.

Mark

I did it all myself (soup to nuts) for around 800 bucks. It was a 10 footer.

I did mine by myself ( well that's a lie, I had so much help) and it cost me.....shit I stopped adding whe i got to 10,000.. oh yah then there was the two stagges I put on the underside.... and I owned a paint shop and had a painter on staff to do work.

And there's a flaw in the finish (I'm not saying where) it's small and its in the base coat. I put a chip in the door jam while I was adjusting the fit of the doors. That will need to be repaired.

Look the lesson here is give it to someone and let them do it. Accept it and maybe bitch to your friends that they could have done a better job. Don't do it yourself and go overboard like some people do

Your best bet in my opinion is Scotty B. He is basically almost local to you, has massive experience in 914s, has very high standards of quality and on top of all that he is a super good guy. I guess that is why I drug my car backwards 750 miles to get to his shop.

By the time I was done ....by done I mean I ain't doing this no more...I had prolly 35-40 K into the car. Doing the work myself was an imperative or I couldn't afford it. Hay, I got .50 cents on the dollar for it. Having mentioned this I don't think I would be a very good checkbook builder anyhow.......cept maybe for the repaint.
That didn't cost much in money but the cost in brain cells may have been more than I could afford. I did have a stroke a few years later.........more cells down the tube.....tub m'I enif yllaer.

Mine was 9 grand. That was back in 2003.

Read this thread too. Before you get sticker shock on these accurate numbers that people are quoting, call an automotive paint shop and ask the cost for a gallon of QUALITY paint and clear coat. Ask for red! After your jaw hits the ground and you regain consciousness you will have a realistic idea of what you are in for just in materials. Keep in mind that a painter knows that if he makes a mistake and has to eat the cost of the paint to re-shoot a car, he has to get a new mortgage on his house.....Where's Earl Schieb these days?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtjdHaMeiiQ

scotty b for quality knowledge of what the 914 needs and somewhat local to you; you're closer to him than I am. I supplied a roller which was pretty much stripped and you can do that prep yourself.

I can't really comment on cost as I have been out of the collision/custom business as long as some of you all were in school. I can comment on quality and the cost of cutting corners because you have a budget. Body shop materials have come leaps and bounds bryond the factory applied materials of 30+ years ago but labor saving ideas and good technic are still only as good as the guy running the show. Plan for the worse and hope for the best. Choose a shop that has a solid knowledge of these chassis', find someone that you can trust, and be glad you can even find a shop that will consider taking on your rust. There are many shops in this area that won't touch rust or restoration with a ten foot pole even if your holding it. And remember, shops don't have x-ray vision. Sometimes the best guys miss something. How they handle it makes the difference.

One of the biggest variables in the cost will be the amount of repairs that will be needed. My job was about $12k, but the quote started at about $6k. My 73 looked great with no apparent flaws, UNTIL IT WAS SANDED. You can see my thread below. We found lots of areas that were repaired before and were in need of repair again. My painter would not even paint the car unless the areas were completely redone, nor would I want him to.

Depending on who you hire, most will give you a price of the paint and supplies, but will charge you hourly for the repairs since most damage will be hidden under the paint. I had to have both doors and the from trunk go all the way back to metal even though they looked good from the outside. My advise would be to hire someone with a reputation for restorations, not just painting, and be visible in their shop to stay abreast of the progress. When ever someone is charging by the hour, it is easy to make up numbers.

Most of you know that I am a huge advocate of stripping a car before painting. I prefer a qualified media blaster. That said any good painter is going to quote you high if they don't know what's under the paint. I would. My next project car is a 911 for my daughter. The painter would not give me a quote at all until it was blasted and he could see what lurked below. After it was blasted even I was shocked to see what was there. However, when starting from that point everyone knows what they are dealing with and a set price is easy. The painter wanted to charge "time and materials" and I refused. I wanted a set price. It's too easy to "stretch the hours" and get gouged when things don't go right and in my opinion a flat price is the way to go and fair IF EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT'S THERE. Once your car is in process, you are at the mercy of the shop if a surprise comes up. At that stage what are you going to do?....you'll pay! I avoid this situation at all cost as I get burned EVERY time. In my case we agreed that I would buy the materials but a flat rate for labor was charged and paid in "stages"

Even my 914 ran into some gouging. At the end I wanted my top painted (perfect condition). He quoted me $1000.00 and I already had the materials. I was furious (and complained) but allowed the work and shut my mouth. At each stage I had given VERY generous tips, he deserved them and I wanted to be fair. I had planned on giving him an additional $500.00 tip for finishing my car so nice, he deserved it. When the top was finished I gave him the $1000.00 for the top and final payment and told him that due to the high cost of the top that no money was left for any more tips. He had screwed himself and he would have actually gotten more if he didn't gouge me.

The moral of the story is when it comes to business.....get everything up front in writing! Pay in stages and nothing more than what is complete. Paying more upfront to "motivate" a painter doesn't work, it does the opposite.

That's the rest of the story.......

Paint and bondo covering up all kinds of tomfoolery - Amen!

There is alot of talk about gouging and TIPS. First off I have never heard of a body shop being given a monetary tip, thank you for letting me know this is a custom. I wil now have higher expectations of my customers

Gouging is kinda of like when my doctor asked me how much pain I was in. Pain is subjective as is the claim of gouging. There is nothing easy about rust repair, body work, or paint, and as some have stated, if I have an issue, I have to eat it. I have put twice the time into some cars than I am getting paid for, just to make it a little nicer, or because there was an unforseen issue. Jim McCloeds car for example, I had to completely reshoot the whole car on my dime. Paint and time, due to not having enough base to cover fully. I didn't realize this until I hung the removable panels and saw they were a different shade than the rest of the car This meant the whole car had to be dissassembled, sanded, reshot, re-wetsanded, rebuffed and re-assembled. Nothing at all to do with the car, or Jim. I simply couldn't tell that the removable panels were thin due to the way the light hit them in the booth.

I realize I am in a business historically dominated by unethical snakes. That is why my door is always open to my customers. I also photodocument every step of my jobs and burn the pics on a cd for the customer. That way they can see what has been found, what has been done, and what they got for their money in the end. Anyone that takes a car to a shop for restoration work should ask for this to be done. If the shop refuses to, or whines about do so, should be walked away form IMO. You are paying a fair amount of money for services that you don't see performed day in and day out. It is very easy for a shop to tell you they are using high dollar materials, and put cheap paint on. How would you know the difference ? I can make Nason at 120.00/gallon look just as good as Spies at 350.00/gallon, but there is a huge difference in the paint and it's longevity.

Also when you go in to have your car worked on, sit down with the owner and or manager, and go through COMLETELY what your expectations are in the end. What work you expect them to do, and at what quality level. I and most other restoration shops, can do anything from a cheapo patch and paint up to a full blown show car. The price difference in the 2 is astronomical. So if you have an 8000.00 budget, don't start flaming when there is a ripple in the body work, orange peel in the paint, or a less than perfect gap somewhere. Put things into a perspective you can understand. If you are a lawyer, are you going to represent a client with a 10,000.00 budget as well as you would a client with a 100,000.00 budget ? Of course not.