My 914 seemed a bit "tailhappy" my first time out. The PO had the "car set up for AX". I think the rear springs are too stiff relative to rest of the set-up.

I know I am the limiting factor in getting the car around those cones quickly but I want a good base to learn from. Hopefully without going to the cash hammer.

Current setup, rear - 180 lb springs, "new" per PO KYB shocks, no-sway bar ; front - original springs, original?-shocks, 22 mm sway bar.

The parts car has 100# springs and white shocks on the rear and original springs and white shocks on the front. I also think I have a rear sway bar that came with the cars.

I plan on swapping rear springs.

Are KYBs held in such disregard I should swap shocks too? The white shocks dampen the parts car without an engine in it.

Any other suggestions short of Koni Sports all round?

the KYB are junk but before you spend a load of money on new, shiny parts, try adjusting your front sway bar.

it is adjusteable, right? what setting is it on right now?
if the rear is loose (and 180lbs is OK for AX, btw.),
tighten the front bar ...

of course, it could also be too much air pressure in your tires.
or the rear shocks are toast and don't "shock" anymore.
or your rear tires are junk. did you try rotating the tires rear/front?

keep the 180s and see if you can adjust it out with the front-sway bar.
the car will be MUCH stiffer (read: handle better) with the 180# instead of the 100# ...

Andy

Andy.

My shocks were GONE, and I thought my car handled great, until I hit the A/X... All crazy ...

sideways, tires howling, massive body roll. ( slow times )

I have 150# rear springs and Koni's around... look out!

Andy makes some good points. As he said, a 22mm bar up front and 180# springs in the rear should be a pretty good combination. If your front swaybar is in fact, adjustable, you can stiffen it up and dial out the oversteer.

However, before you do that, you might consider some other points.

Oversteer is usually very desirable for AX among most drivers. It allows your car to "rotate" thru turns.

After installing a 22mm adjustable swaybar in mine, which incidently had 180# rear springs, my car exhibited a tendancy to understeer. I now have 250# springs in the rear and still have the front swaybar on full soft to bring back some oversteer. It rotates really nice now, but is still quite controllable.

You mentioned it was your first AX. You might consider leaving the car as it is (other than you do need to get a prelimnary grasp of your tire pressure settings), and concentrate on your driving for a few more autocrosses. What may seem like a problem with the car now, may just be you having a little more seat time in it. You may be providing too much steering input, trail braking in a turn, sudden throttle lift in a turn, various things such as those that could account for some of the perceived oversteer.

It basically took me a full AX season last year to get my car setup. It will now take me another season to really learn the car.

I would advise against swapping out those springs.

Matt,
I know a little bit about your car. I raced against Harold for a few years before you bought it from him. It is a fast car, but isn't set up the way he was running it (when it was fast). When I saw you with the car this spring I got the feeling Harold might have sold off some of the speed parts before you got the car. Harold was running Kuhmo Vicoracers (195/50-15 I think) and the car was set up very low. MUCH lower than it is now. I'm almost positive it had Konis on all four corners. I think part of your problem is the KYB's in the back. They have a high spring perch and your back-end is way up in the air. You aren't getting much weight transfer to the back because of the nose-down attitude and stiff springs.

I wouldn't swap out the rear springs. You'll end up with lots of understeer. Instead I would get some Koni or Bilstien shocks for the rear (and front if not already equiped). They have an ajustable spring perch so you can drop the back-end down to a more optimal 'just-barely-above-level' stance. The next thing would be tires. You need some better rubber in a lower profile. I didn't look closely at your tires but they looked like are very tall profile (like 165/70's maybe). Tires + shocks & ride-height adjustment will really transform the car. I think you'll find then that you've got a very good spring and sway-bar setup. If you do the shocks/tires/ride-height the car will be back to the setup Harold was racing it at, and it was fast. (I know you are still running the same springs/swaybar he was running)

-Ben M.

OK I left out a few details.

In Harolds defense I took 3 truckloads of parts (not efficiently packed). Do you need a Monsa or stock muffler or stock HE? Is a cracked case worth keeping?

I changed out the Victoracers.

The Victoracers are mounted on 8 inch Boyds. In order to fit them PO (anonimity is good) placed about 1/2 inch of washers under the rear springs. Ingenious but it has the stance of a Chevelle. Id post pics but it is only my 8th post.

Also the KYBs are red. This is different than what the internet research would suggest. And I guess the white shocks on the parts car are KYBs too.

The PO who by all accounts could drive this setup fast had a major spin too which cost him (and now me) a rear trailing arm. I was just wondering if lighter springs would be more stable and better to start with in my inexperienced hands.

Not wanting to waste the AX tires on my first time out I put on the "other" tires that came with the car Lemans 185 86T's (The studs are on the parts car). I can not even read that rating but they must be performance tires because they are "Lemans" I was running about 40 psi because that is what "Solo Racing" and Miatia Mitch suggest generically.

The front sway bar is a Weltmeister and I do not think it is adjustable. It is too dark and wet to check now.

OK new plan for next AX. No rear washers and start with 32psi in the POS tires. I'll bring a small tank of air.

I was wondering if I should swap springs with the parts car when I remove these washers. I won't for now. But this car is too much fun to drive to limit it to AX.

I'll mount some decent tires on the fuchs once I get them polished. Koni sports will probably be the next major purchase. I need to decide if I'm going to take a hammer to the fenders before I know the fate of the Boyds and the Victoracers.

Airsix are you running Sat & Mon of Memorial weekend. Sat I'll probably be removing washers from my suspension as I'm out of town the next two weekends.

You guys got an AX on the Memorial day weekend?
I think I've gots nothing scheduled.......always lookin' for fun.

Yes a race on Sat, Sun and Mon. Please come join us. I think there is more information at Sage & Sand Sports Car Club.

If the link doesn't work search on Sage Sand Sports Car.

I'm out of town the next two weekends so I will probably work on the car Sat. spend time with family Sun and run Monday.

I know my priorities are screwed up.

not knowing your tires, i'd say 40psi (cold) is way to high.
it'll be more like 45 when hot ...

i run my tires (which don't like much pressure) and 28psi cold, 32 warm ...

i'd say, start with 32 cold and see how it goes, look for excessive sidewall rollover ...

Andy

Matt,
I took last season off (car on jack-stands all summer - engine out) so I didn't see Harold run the car his last season. I never saw it jacked-up with the 8in. Boyds. When I ran with him it was slammed to the ground with 6in Fuchs and 195/50-15 Vicroracers. He was always 1 or 2 seconds faster than me and the car looked like it handled very well.

I've never seen a red KYB. Either he painted them (possible) or they really are Konis. Check to see if the body of the shock has grooves cut around the circumfrence spaced about a half-inch apart below the lower spring perch. If so, you can move the retaining clip under the spring perch down to a lower groove to adjust the ride height (and by all means take those washers out. ).

-Ben M.

JP,
We'd love to have you up for the weekend! You can race three days in a row. There will be a new course each day. We're a small club (typically 35-45 cars at our events) but we have a lot of fun. We run at Tri-City raceway and use the paved in-field as well as the banked tri-oval. That gives us lots of room for some really fun courses. Hope you make it.

-Ben M.