I'm trying to work out what to do for gauges for a /6 conversion. I've been chatting with Mark about building a triple gauge for oil pressure, oil temp and fuel. My question is do I really need an oil pressure gauge for a street car or is the idiot light adequet? I think an ammeter is just a novelty and I'm not crazy about a quad gauge as it looks too busy.

I have a NOS combo gauge for a /4 motor and I was contemplating just updating the oil temp gauge portion with a matching sender for temp telemtry.

My other alternative is sending my NOS combo gauge (I hate to sacrafice a NOS gauge) as a core and having a triple gauge made by Vintage USA.

What is the combo gauge I've attached worth? Thinking of maybe selling it and sourcing a core for my triple gauge.

Any opinions?

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Kev

Oil pressure and temp are crucial to monitor the health and function of your engine. Don't try to save a couple hundred at the cost of many thousand.

My 2 cents would be a triple gauge with fuel, oil pressure, and oil temp. You can also go with a center console with additional gauges for whatever else you want. Maintains a factory look tht way

And if you're building a triple gauge, get a nice used one and keep/sell the NOS as the triple will be rebuilt and new anyway

I hear ya. Is the fact that the /4 only has an idiot light for pressure have something to do with it not being dry sump engine? What will a pressure reading tell me over an idiot light? Not being stubborn, just don't have a feel for what its will tell me. I don't think my 2003 vehicle has anything more than a bar (no actual numbers) to represent pressure. Perhaps it's too late by the time an idiot light comes on?

Kev

The factory six used a combi gauge like the top pic below: I have one in mine like the one in the second photo. I'm going to add the fuel gauge to the bottom of it.

Not sure what the NOS gauge is worth but I bet you could sell it for a lot more than an old 911 gauge like the one I have. I think I paid 50 bucks for mine. and I definitely want the pressure gauge in there.

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Good point, the original 6 didn't have a pressure gauge. However, I'm starting to think this through and think I'm starting to be convinced it's worth extra $$ to have the data. Center console pressure gauge maybe an option, if there's one out there that fits.

914's were low cost cars. 911's have more guages. Guages can tell you when something bad is going to happen. Idiot lights tell you something bad has just happened.

I agree. The engines we are swapping into these cars are all getting old. I'd rather glance at a gauge and seeing something that is starting not to look right than have a light blinking on 15 minutes too late.

Here is the last one I put together a couple weeks ago.

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I used the combo gauge from a 911, it's got the idiot light, alternator light, oil temp and oil pressure. Oil pressure is really nice to monitor, the idiot light comes on once oil pressure falls below 7 psi, that's way too low if your cruising at 3,000-4,000 RPM's, your normal oil pressure in that range should be anywhere from 60-75 psi... I didn't want a radio so I just took the stock fuel gauge out and built my own radio delete plate with the fuel gauge in the middle. It's a lexon piece of clear plastic, used some acrylic glue to glue plastic studs on the back and attached the gauge to the studs. I like it.

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I like John's gauge a lot!

Here's a data point - contemporary ('70-'71) 911E and S had a 10-Bar oil pressure guage and _no_ idiot light. What a guage will tell you that a light won't is when the oil pressure is too _high_ to operate safely.

I saw my 10-Bar gauge pegged on several occasions - cold-weather (Single-digit-F) startups. The temperature guage doesn't really come to life much below 140ºF. When you can peg the oil pressure with a throttle blip, things are still too cold to hammer the throttle.

Ideally, the idiot light switch is wired to a BIG, BRIGHT, RED light (and maybe a horn, for the track...). Fuel guage is nice, and I wouldn't eliminate one from a car that had one already, but I never ran out of gas in my '53 which has no guage... You've got a 60-mi lo-fuel light, two odometers, and a clock. There's really no excuse for running out of gas.

Fuel level, oil temp, oil pressure. Some lights for truly alarming things wouldn't be bad, but they can be small and don't really need to be in your scan.

60 to 70PSI at 3000-4000 RPM? Not good. Try 10 PSI/1000 RPM at normal operating temps.

The Cap'n

I have a few kits left. This one, the guy provided the donor gauges and asked me to assemble the kit. It took me a while (I don't have too much spare time), but he reported that he likes his new gauge.

This is what I've been thinking about doing. Is the metric on these oil pressure gauges in 'bars' ie 0-5? Think I would like to have it read psi, I assume VDO makes that gauge as well?

John, you making these for your use or profit? I can use one...

I use a 911 combo oil temp / oil pressure mounted in a center console, along with a Volt gauge & clock.

If you use John's gauge on your 2.4, it will peg the guage and possibly ruin the sender as it is 5 bar. The 2.4 will produce damn near 10 bar on cold startup. Sub in a 10 bar gauge.

I imagine there is an appropriate gauge/sender that can be sourced for my application? I was thinking of a 140psi gauge and sender?

I'm still hoping to get another kit, John.

The 911 gauges labeled 1-5 are in BAR. These were used in several later air cooled 911's. The PSI numbered gauges were only used a few years.

IMHO, I prefer the 1-5 BAR gauges. The sending units need to be matched to the gauge in order to operate correctly.

The temp gauges are similar. They need to have the appropriate sending unit.

Once upon a time I wanted a numbered temp gauge and a pressure gauge in PSI. I didn't have them when I made my first kit and have grown to like the cleaner look of the gauges not cluttered with insignificant numbers.

VDO gauges are not all that accurate, but they are repeatable. Once you know where your car is supposed to operate, you know where the gauge should point. The numbers become insignificant. Cool to look at, but insignificant.

The 911 gauge I used in my personal triple gauge is the one from my 3.2 engine. This way, I know what senders to use and it is uncluttered with numbers. 1-5 bar pressure and one of the temp gauges with 3 or 4 lines and no numbers.

just my $0.02

I have the stock 911 temp and pressure (combo gauge) and the fuel gauge is where the radio is in most cars. Temp and pressure are essential for a 911 motor.

Here's a link to the fuel gauge plate I made...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=59512

3.0 engines & up use a 5 Bar setup.

2.7 & below used a 10 bar setup.

I've already ruined 2 70 - 80 psig VDOs and their senders on a 2.4T MFI. It now has a 10 bar sender and a 150 psig guage.

I went the easy route with my six conversion...kept the 914 dash stock (other then using the 911 tach) and added the other gauges to my center console. I replaced all three (ammeter, clock, temp) with new VDO Oil Temp, Oil Pressure and Ammeter gauges. I had to use the VDO reducers for these to work..but the end result was a factory look (in my opinion). The only thing I had to change on the 911 motor was the temp sender.

Here is the end result:

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Atleast get your temp guage numeralized. North Hollywood Speedo will do that and sell you a matching sender. Sure would be nice to have an oil level gauge, but I don't even want to think of that job!

I use one of Mark's - looks very 914 GTish - and better than that it has volts and works great.

I really like the 911 gauges. They can be picked up relatively cheap and modified if needed and fit right in the existing hole.

Here is how I did mine....You may or may not need the check engine light depending on your engine. You can also get a stand alone VDO fuel gauge that can be put in the dash or add to the tach like I did
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Like horoscopes, the oil level guage is 'for entertainment purposes only.' It's cute but of marginal value, and a little distracting. I believe it dates from the times when 911 engines used (leak + burn) a lot of oil, and people couldn't or wouldn't used the dipstick properly (engine warm, idle, parked level...).
Again, I'd keep it in a car that had one originally, but I really don't see the value of trying to add one. If you really want to go through the exercise, be my guest...

I love my Triple that Vintage did for me - I supplied the Face & donor Guage/Can

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If you have a front mounted oil cooler, put a bung in it and install a mechanical oil temperature guage in it. Old electric guages tell lies.

I'd have to agree that the quad gauge is the best, makes it look clean and packed with info. I have a console full of gauges and would love to turn it back into a deposit box.

While the Quad Guage has lots of info, it just doesn't look "Right" to me. Too much info in a small space, especially in a simple car like ours.

I saw a pic of T.C.s gauge a few months ago, contacted Vintage to see if they could make me one...they said they can't, re an agreement with certain suppliers???

I would quite like John's....altho I'm now not sure if it will work with a 2.7? re bar pressure numbering?

But in my little world there's another component....and it may apply to some of us. I have a 6, it came to me with steel flares but without rengine and tranny, so I've started down the slippery GT tribute slope....with faint hope that the insurance company up here will allow it to be classified a collector IF it LOOKS like a GT....(not sure where the lines are drawn in the sand on that one)........

Don't know if any of you have insurers that will give you a break in rates if appearances are correct....

BUT that would mean I go with the old 911 gauge....


May I ask a related question?

The 10K tach....can they be made up from a parts bin.....if so, what parts.

thanks

That makes sense...the triple gauge is really cool. Maybe I'm just used to lots of info (see a Mercedes W114 cluster pictured..ignore the missing clock space)


Question, do you need CHT gauge in a 6-cyl car?...I know they are a good idea in a 4-cyl.

Not the case anymore, spoke with Mark at Vintage this week. He did not in the past as to not step on the other suppliers the gloves are off. Hey, if the others price themselves out of the market, I don't see a problem with it.

Depends a little on what's been done with the case. If it has 'the scavenge mod' you may be able to get away with a 5-Bar guage. 'The Scavenge Mod' began in 1983 and routed oil from the pressure bypass back to the input side of the pressure pump. If you have uprated the oil pump, 5-Bar may still be low... (One of the reasons Porsche went with the 5-Bar gauge in the first place is people freaked seeing (near-)zero oil pressure at idle...)

IOW - you are hoping to reduce rates by convincing the insurance company you have a $500,000 look-alike performance car rather than what it is? Good luck with that, let us know how it goes... I know that one of the requirements for Classic (Antique? historic?) plates here in PA is that the car be in 'original appearing' condition. Don't know how fine a lens they apply to that, and if I can make an RS-look 911 be 'original appearing' if it looks like an original RS. We will see. But I'd think a 3000-unit production volume would be sufficient 'collector' criteria in your case...

so there we are back to 'original what' - because a 914/6GT does not look like an original 914.6 ... I seriously doubt they're looking at dash guages, in any case...

Any Porsche tach will do, although you'd want one that works with whatever ignition you're using. The guage rebuilders renumber the face and recalibrate the electronics. At which point, the only issue is 'does it fit in the dash, and have the right indicator lights.' Hint - IIRC, even the GT's didn't have 10k tachs, but I could be wrong. They show up on EBay and specialised sites (like this one, and Pelican) from time to time. A 911 guage will not have the right indicator lights for a 914...


You don't _need_ a CHT or EGT is any car. They're nice, but pricey. The very best combo CHT/EGT guages are aircraft instruments, bring money. But they're also designed for in-flight tuning which they do all the time, and we don't. Even so, the probes are expensive, even if you go with only one per bank, and it's hard to make them meaningful if you want 6, even if you can find the panel space. It can be done.

Not sure I understand the Question. Collector Insurance will Insure a 914-6 with Flares as Porsche did offer the M-471 through the Dealers for customers to convert a -6 to a GT (as mine has). These companies wouldn't know a GT from a 912, however you won't get away with Insuring it for some crazy amount like $300k.

As far as putting in a 911 gauge vs another gauge, that won't make any difference.

T.C.

I drive in a "monopoly insurance" world....read expensive insurance.

To get basic collector plates, the car has to look as if it rolled off the assembly line. That isn't TOO tough with a 6....UNLESS you start doing mods.

Up here, there is no way in "HE double hockey sticks" they will give collector plates to a 6 that "just got flares"....They get really picky re what is stock, what not....

I have NO idea of what their position will be if I ask to have collector plates on a car that "looks" like an M-471....and then the question is begged, what does/did an M-471 look like...

I doubt it's been done here....and if I don't succeed, it was worth a try, but not anything I'll lose sleep over. In some ways, I just want to test the waters.

I didn't mean the question to become an "insurance question". I do know that in order to have any hope of persuading collector status, I'll have to give them detailed photos of what "an M-471 looked like", which I guess is a loaded question. Having said that, I have no idea whether they'll consider an optioned car like an M-471 as a possible factory car.

To my uneducated ey, it does seem that the photos typically show the traditional 911 temp gauge...and the 10K tach.

I didn't mean the query to become an "insurance question".

My intent is not to insure the car for any greater value than it then has ( and I'll end up getting an appraisal of some sort to help float a general value on that topic. )

My intent is to get some affordable insurance under the collector status....it then falls within the ambit of cars that can't be driven to work, etc, but the expectation of the insurer is that the vehicle is less likely to be involved in an incident, and thus a lower risk/annual premium (read something like $500 per year, instead of $2500)

What I hoped to ask was whether there is any trick to getting ones hands on a 10k tach...can it be made, or do I have to buy OEM, which is a tad pricey. Well, probably both options are.

And thanks for the comments. Despite my awkward question, I got the answer(s)...

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Not sure I understand the Question. Collector Insurance will Insure a 914-6 with Flares as Porsche did offer the M-471 through the Dealers for customers to convert a -6 to a GT (as mine has). These companies wouldn't know a GT from a 912, however you won't get away with Insuring it for some crazy amount like $300k.

As far as putting in a 911 gauge vs another gauge, that won't make any difference.

T.C.
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If you want a CHT on a six (wish I had had one before the ringlands on #1 let go), I would use the sparkplug ring style and put it on #1 or #2 as they get the least cooling of all the cylinders on a six.

If you want a CHT on a six (wish I had had one before the ringlands on #1 let go), I would use the sparkplug ring style and put it on #1 or #2 as they get the least cooling of all the cylinders on a six.

No argument there, and I think you'd definitely want at least one per bank, so you can learn what side the shop towel got sucked into. I won't argue against #1 or #2, but I think I'd also like #6 - it's up against the oil cooler...
I've known a couple of vintage-race friends who have had crank breaks at #2. Donno if a CHT/EGT wouldda helped, but "it couldn't hurt..."