Talked to the body shop today and now I'm confused.
Should I go single stage or base/clear.
Opinions?? Scotty?
74-2.0 code 98 (516 Sahara Beige)

Thanks
Steve

Do you want originality or shine?

Can't I have both??

You can go single stage and mix some clear in with it, this way it buffs out better for shine.

I dont know what ratios to use though.

Yes! A single stage paint can be sanded and buffed if you add hardener to it, and it will shine like the sun.

Yes, you can have both. but it will cost more and be more work down the road.

Single stage paint is softer, more coats required, and more skill required to lay it down correctly. You will need to be far more careful in the polishes and waxes you choose to use. You MUST use the correct wax for the paint used, ie: laccquer, urethane, etc.
but nothing looks as good as multiple coats of lacquer, hand-rubbed with a fine glaze, then finished with carnauba. Unfortunately, most don't maintain the finish properly, and before you know it, you have a dull, scrathed up finish.

2 stage paint will be a simple enamel, then finished with clearcoat. The clear is hard, easier to maintain, and resists stone chips and scratches a lot better. Plus, off the shelf car care products can be used, with no harm. lot less labor to maintain.
Shine is better than all but the best of single stage paintjobs.

Daily driver or any car that will see rain, mud, dirt, etc. = 2 stage paint.

I had mine redone with single stage paint about 8 years ago. Worst decision i ever made for my car.

I did single stage 'cause i did it myself...wanted it to have that 70's feel. It's really deeeeeep black but it's a lot of polishing time.

Also easier to touch up and fix if I have to. If I had a pro do it i would have probably gone 2 stage and complained like hell if it didn't turn out well.

I'm sensing a theme and I think its leaning towards two stage. (BC/CC) sounds like it will suite what I want to do with this car. Durability is what I will need.
Thanks for the education.
Steve

Didmine 10 years ago and hated it from day one...

rich

I know that PPG only has Zambezi color code in their single stage. For me to go 2 stage with PPG I'll have to have them mix a custom color = more $. 2 stage paint will also cost more because you need to buy twice the materials.

I did a 2 stage VW bug paint job a few years ago that cost me $800. If that doesn't scare you go for it. I personally love it. It lays down much nicer IMHO. Looks shiney right out of the gate. You don't have to wait weeks before you wet sand it.

A single stage PPG paint job will cost me $260 for paint plus hardener and reducer.

I took the car down to bare metal and I'm having the shop flatten and straighten all the panals first and a complete paint with bumpers and valences is $3500
Turns out the bodyman is the VP of the local PCA. I think it will look good

Mines single and looks f'n amazing.

I have always perfered single stage for solid colors. what you'll find is the original colors won't have a formula for modern paint finishes which will out perform the old laquer and acrylic enamal paint finishes that were the norm during the years our cars were in production. If your a nut for originality you will want to use a single stage finish and have it applied at a top shop so you won't have to buff it. You will need to be a fanatic about cleaning and waxing the car as the sun will kill the colors as they always have with the old finishes.

If your into a high gloss slick paint have a B/C finish applied. Cutting and buffing doesn't lock in solvents and the new finishes don't absorb the compounds and dull out if you buff them too soon.

I have always used DuPont finishes. To each his own. The paint formula for the Ravenna car is only available in the Imron paint line. I happen to hate Imron. It sux to sand and buff, you can't blend it, repairing it sux, and it's very fussy when it comes to application and temperture for for a nice flow out. Good for fleet trucks which is what it's designed for but suxs on cars.

Here's what I did. I brought a section of the kinked hood down tot he paint store and had it scanned. They had their computer make a formula for a single stage urothane. (Chroma One) We checked the color by dotting some of the paint on the under side of the part and drying it with a heat gun. after a couple tweeks I'm satified with the match.

For the Raspberry car the only paint finish available from DuPont is Centari. I had a pint mixed in Centari, sprayed a test panel for the paint scanner, had the computer develop a formula for Chroma One. Solved.

So, I have a color that looks like the natural finish but the gloss will look like it's on steroids. It will be blendable, blockable and buffable. Problem solved.

so, you can get a single stage paint to lay flat with no orange peal, or you are buying paint that allows you to wet sand it and buff it after you are done, single stage?

Second question...what is your view on the rustoleum rolled on paint job?
Rich

First question: a paint job is only as good as the prep that went into it. Dirty car, poor prep = dirty paint job, poor quality finish. Let's face it, everyone, even the best most experienced painter will get something in the paint and "some peel" in the finish. Having that ability to block sand and buff a modern single stage finish to level not obtainable with conventional equipment on a consistant basis make even the inexperienced painter look good. So, the short answer, wet sand and buff it after your done.

Second question:

Just for kicks...I may try it.
I can always sand it off....
I promise not to do it to the 356...
Rich

Good paints ref with links to suppliers -
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=39488&st=0

Great example of another 73 914 in its original #98 Sahara Beige -
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=101921

AFAIK you can get a good job in either single or base/clear - assuming a good painter with proper equipment & patience/perfectionism, and with high quality materials - i.e.: no crap paints like 1Day, Earl Scheib, Maaco, etc. use!

This may not help any but I did single stage and color sanded the last coat for 3 mil's of clear. Im still very happy with it 3+ years later

TEAM SLANDY

Thanks Tom,
interestingly enough, My car is a different Saraha Beige. It's not the sandy colour of the link. It was a colour used on the Carrera in '74 like this:Click to view attachment
It's going to a full on body shop in Kelowna

Also, base / clear is much easier to fix in the future. You can not blend a single stage paint anything like you can with a clear coat system. Many of the highest end restoration shops will only use base /clear. It's a better system, last longer, and looks better.

Anyone that still uses lacquer to paint a car is making a serious mistake.

For $3500, it better be freakin' pefect. And I mean, concours perfect. And I REALLY mean, concours judge drools over it.
Sounds like your going to Fender's Auto Body?

Close, it's a Fix Auto in Rutland(Kelowna). There are no deals on paint and autobody in BC ,The sole insurer (ICBC) has kept the prices high. I expect it will be spectacular.

I might have to try Chroma One. I can understand staying away from Centari. I sprayed it for years. It's why I shy away from DuPont. It took forever to harden enough to sand. When it was finally sanded it never looked as shiney. If I didn't like how a panel came out I'd wipe it off with laquer thinner when it was still wet and shoot it again. It would always orange peel a bit on me (pre-HVLP guns). If I thinned it enough to lay smooth it would run too easily on vertical panels. I'm kinda surprised it's still around.

I had my 74 painted bahia single stage and had it color sanded and buffed--I was very happy with the results. Paint was still gorgeous after 2 years.

When I had my 75 painted marathon blue metallic, I went with B/C, which by the way was twice the price.

If you can, stick with the base colors and stay away from metallics. Single stage looks great!

Also, in my opinion, 3500 is not too much for a full paint job including body work.

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I suggest you have that conversation with the shop owner and let him know what you expect for $ 3500.00.

The 3/4 gallon of Chroma One mixed in Ravenna is $ 800.00. That is only the paint and only 3/4 of a gallon. That's no activator and reducer, That's no primers of any kind, that's no sandpaper, tape, prep sovents, compounds, polishes, labor or anything else. The shop will have well over $ 1500.00 in materials alone. You car must be outstandingly straight and rust free. Are you bringing the car with no engine? are they doing the trunks and engine bay?
$ 3500.00 is more than a gift.

I agree, for 3500 dont expect it to be perfect unless your body guy is willing to work for 5.00 an hour.....

3500.00 is NOT going to get you anywhere near a "concours job. There are WAY to many opinions rolling around here, and aside from Rick, very little fact.

1: single stage and b/c/ can be equally as impressive

2: the body work under the paint is JUST as important as the laying of the paint

3: single stage requires more up keep. The car needs to be washed and waxed on a regukar basis, or it will chalk up. By chalk up, I am reffering to the older paint jobs you have all seen that look white. Yes the chalking can be buffed back out, but the other down side to s.s. is that every time you buff it, you remove more paint and eventually you will break through the paint and into the primer. That said, keeping the car clean and waxed prevents the need to buff it regularly

4: fewer and fewer painters have the experience with s.s. to shoot it properly

5: Metallic single stage connot be wetsanded if you have too much peel, or a mistake. Sanding the metallic will flatten it, runs in solid colors can be wet sanded and buffed but will show a dark apot duw to the buildup of pigments

6: It sounds like I am against s.s., but I am not. I just see b/c/ as a better overall system for looks and longevity. Attatched are 2 cars, one in single one in b/c/. THOSE WHO DO NOT ALREADY KNOW tell me which is which based on the gloss

Black in b/c/. Show me hand rubbed laquer that looks any better

somehing else to remember is that the lower cost clears will not give you the same level of gloss as the higher priced ones. It is all about solid content. Think of it as skim milk compared to whole milk.

Cheap ( PPG shop line ) Single stage

PPG high end ( 2002 clear ) b/c straight out of the gun. I'll take a pic of the bike later today after I clean it so you can see it in the sun

Good info Scotty, Can I guess at the SS and BC? This is a SWAG only because the photos are pretty good although the second photo has more direct light and looks deeper maybe because of that angle, but I would guess the first photo is SS and the second is BC because of the reflection.

SS and BC are purely a preference in my opinion. With modern finishes both are outstanding.

For me, I like the softening of the reflection in the finish the pigments create with a SS finish with solid colors. To me it's nostalgic.

That said, the Alien is cleared

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I'm counting on a good job and yes my car is pretty strait and rust free (as rust free as can be without getting out the boroscope)
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I'm going with the 2 stage and I'll post some pictures when its done. I'm also counting on the fact that the guy doing the work is a Porsche guy and has a rep to protect.

Thanks all

Sprayed in my garage: $65 Sherwin Williams Synthetic Enamel, $30 hardener, $30 low pressure gun, 2hp air compressor.

oh, then you need 1200, 2000, and 3000 sandpaper...$60 online.

Cut and polish with foam pads and Meguires.

I was quoted $3500-5000 by shops to just mask and spray the car. No full prep and they don;t touch the car after they spray it.

Click to view attachment

In my opinion, you made the right choice going with two stage. I forgot how ICBC drives the price up there. Again, just my opinion, but 3500 is the most I would spend on a 914 paint job. I have spent more on other cars, and I have been quoted a lot more on 914 paint before too.
I guess I have been lucky in finding quality craftsman who will work with me in getting the job right for a reasonable price.
I'm also fortunate that they have always let me do the prep and finish work myself in their shop.
One of the very best paint jobs I ever saw came from a little shop on Vancouver island. A guy named John Neil (I think) at a shop named little valley restoration. His skill with lacquer and urethane was just awesome.
Best of luck with your paint. Sounds like you have confidence in the shop doing the job and you chose the right paint process.
But, that's just my opinion!

I went with BC/CC

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Me too.

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On second thought I'll stick with the S/S PPG. For $260 a gallon I can't expect much. My only hope is that it sands out better then Centari.

Heading to home depot to pick up a pint of Rustoleum.
Just a test....I will post a pics along the way..

Really curious to see how it looks and how it works out.

Rich

Rich I promise you are wasting your time if you will keep the car more than three or four years. It will just be paint that then needs to be removed before you put on good paint. To me the prep is so much work there is no way I will use anything other than a urethane paint. If I can only get a ss color I will just put a good clear over it, after I sand the nibs out. Basecoat clear coat to me just means the base is barely a cover coat and all the strength against the elements is the clearcoat. Thats why basecoat usually doesn't orangepeel so much. Then there is the three coat paints. The base the tint and the clear. I like those the best but I don't have a booth that keeps the trash out well enough for those. You can tell how much the paint is worth by just weighing it. High solids are heavier. Good paint will have more solids in it. Yeah I have seen cut and buffed enamels and none of them will hold up in the sun without being repolished a lot. Who wants to spend his time polishing the shine back in a paint over and over. Also the only paint that melts into itself is the old laquer. I'm not aware of any enamel, or urethane that will melt into itself for blending so the blending is done with the clearcoat and color. I also don't see too many blended paint repairs that don't show the line after two years if you know where to look. Orange peel is something that happens. It's when the paint doesn't level out perfectly either because of the viscosity, the temperature, the pressure or the painter. It can be fixed by sanding and buffing. The thinner the paint or the smaller the droplets the less orangepeel. Enamels are great industrial paints. Rusteoleum is a great lawn furniture paint. For my cars I usually use a ss on the trunk and under the hood and wheelwells because I won't be colorsanding it, then bc the outside. All with two part urethane. I don't call enamel or laquer a ss paint. For me ss is a two part urethane. Enamels with a hardner are a catalized enamel.

If 3500.00 gets a good long lasting high gloss straight panel paint job thats a steal.

You get what you pay for.....Now $3500 is Earl Schieb
Click on the picture....
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how would you suggest to do a matte paint job like this?
My car was originally gold...
Rich

Here's your basic $3500 paint job about 7 years old. It looks great from a distance but up close, it looks like a 7 year old $3500 paint job. Something else to consider is the fact that I drive this car everywhere, park it where I want and don't worry about getting it dinged. If I had an expensive paint job I might be a bit more nervous about where I leave it.

This is a very accurate statement and the trap that I fell into. There is a lot to be said about a car that you can "enjoy" and not worry so much about. I worry every time my car is out and that really sucks.

SS black Sherwin Williams (NAPA private lable) Did all the work myself. About 1800.00 total materials. Visit Autobodystore.com there is a lot of very good info on SS vs. B/C

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BC/CC with flattening agent in the clear. It's VERY hard to shoot. If the temperature changes the shine changes. If you spray a little more in one area than another, the shine changes. If you try to use base with no clear it has no film strength and wd-40 or brakleen or brake fluid or any solvent at all will eat it and it will absorb dirt.

some pain companies ( I know Spies does ) actually sell a mate clear. It was used from the fectory on Mercedes bumper covers in the late 80's-mid 90's. Lays out easier then using a self mix flatener, but still is a bit of a PITA. th eonly other option is to buy satin s.s. from somewhere like hot rod flatz, but like any flat s.s. it is a bitch to lay out evenly.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/kustomshop/HRF266.aspx

Elliot, nice wheels! What are they and where did you get them?

Scotty, what do you think of the PPG single stage?