Hello guys, I have my 914 at the shop now because a left bank went dry at a short track event , engine needs to come apart ... now is time to make decisions and need some guidance from you!!!
What should I put on my 914? keep the stock 2.0 with FI, got to a big 4 (2.7) from FAT Performance? or get a Jake Raby's engine kit for a High erformance 4 or go to a 3.0 or bigger 6 engine?

My car has all the suspension upgrades from a 911 carrera already... help please.

Thanks Gus!

If you have the cash a 3.0 or 3.2 six. I don't regret it, it also increases the value of the car. There are lots of discussions about reliability on the large fours, all I know is that my 3.0 six has been very reliable, most engines go at least 200-250k miles....

$2-6k budget, keep a near stock TIV
$6-15k budget, go big with a custom track-ready TIV
$15k+, get the 6 and don't look back

Some folks will share stories of great deals on six engines, but since your 914 is already in the shop and the wait-n-shop DIY approach is not happening, you will likely pay more to get all the motor, trans, and conversion bits.

Good luck

woops, double post edited
ALSO, it is worth thinking ahead about what club, class etc you plan to drive/race in and how they deal with the different engine options

A bit debatable due to the now proven Porsche roots and 35+ years of the 914. Personally I would say FAT or Jake Raby. You are looking at about $6-12K for either. Versus $12K minimum for a 6 conversion.

BTW if you go to Motor Meister you will be shot for stupidity and banned from owning a Porsche ever again. Just ask my Dad who had to redeem himself by buying a 78 Westfalia with a 3.0 6 just to prove he is worthy again.

words to live by:

Speed & Reliability = $$$$

whether it be a "6" or a "4"

you say "track" but you neglect to tell us what class and sanctioning body you are participating in events with.

That would be the driver of this decision....
At the end of the day, if you go to a six, and a 3.0 or 3.2 you may end up in a class that requires more money than you want to spend to be competitive.

2.0 liter type 4 keeps you in a fun class.
2.0 liter six is also fun and mainly you are with 911's
a Big four or a larger displacement 6 will put you up into the big boys class that DO spend serious money to get the cars competitive.

All depends on why you are doing this...what class, what racing club etc.

Read the rules, look at the previous results of other cars in a specific class and see if you want to go into that class.

Rich

Rich put it well. Build the car for the class you want to compete in. The last POC event near here had 3 different 914-6's that were embarrasingly slow for their class. They were outspent, competing against beautifully prepped 993's with $50k or more invested.

914-4's were much more competitive in class, with $25k invested.

So my advice would be: Keep the stock type IV with FI, including your upgraded suspension, and enjoy the superb drivablility. Then buy a well-prepped 911 for track use. Many, many track cars for sale now for 50% of the build cost.

If you are not serious about track time, consider the 6 conversion for long term fun and investment, but only track on non-competitive DE days.

Thank you guys for your good advice... my car is not and will not become a dedicated track car, I do like to run it in some short track events and AX with PCA of Orange county and with POC in SoCal but this is more of a weekend driver, I did it a few times with the current engine set up and I did really good and is all fun.
I already have a dedicated track car so race prepping my 914 is not what I want to do. My idea falls more in to what a 914 RS should have been like? more power on the 4? a six version only? Stock 4 with less body fat? If I have followed Porsche's trend on RS model cars properly, all I see is that what they do is lower the body fat and add some extra HP (15 or 20) and play with the suspension.....who knows if I'm right but that's what I see.
I really enjoy the car as is today but being a 76 I was thinking of backdating the front and rear bumpers to a fiberglass Gt version, put a high volume oil pump, adding a Patrick Motorsport front oil cooler for engine safety... Then the engine questions as what to do since is out of the car go for a 6, stay with the 4 add a big 4...
I have already installed a set of RS door panels, a custom made roll bar, I will replace the carpet and add rennline aluminum floor mats and pedal cluster, dash has been recovered in leather with red french stitching to match the color of the car, panel behind seats have been removed and firewall painted in black like the 914 GT's had, 911 carrera front end with rotors and calipers, 914-6 rear rotors and calipers, red koni adjustable up front and rear with #180 springs and weiltmeister adjustable Sbar up front, 7x15 Fuchs with Bridgestone Potenza 205,50,15 all around for street and a set of 6x15 fuchs with 205 50 15 DOT khumo racers on them for the track or AX.
Engine has been rebuild back in 1996 with Carrillo rods, Euro Pistons, extensive head work, mild cams, Blue printed and balanced but car sat since 98 until 2008 since then I have been working on it....
Any more recommendations are welcome! Thanks!!

Well, with the added detail, I would stick with my first recommendation. Stay with the stock 2.0 with FI.
But I bet you won't.

its a 76 and you are not smog exempt.
That shoots down the idea of any carbs at all...
2.0 liter type 4 , or a 3.2 with the motronic FI, are probably your only choices so you can pass smog.
Then you would need to keep the thing smogged based upon the later motor...
Its a great motor, either one.

Rich

You're an hour away from me. Which shop is your car at? Don Kravig's?

Yes the car is there with Don, I'm trying to get some ideas so when the engine is out and we know what we have to work with the decision can be made fast and accurate, I do not want to delay it for too long or go around thinking too much about it... Don's take on it was to go 2056 and keep it FI or go big on the type 4 since my car is not smog legal and has not been for a long while.... the 6 is the best option over all because of the pedigree added to the car by making it a 914-6 but will have to be FI for smog reasons...
Are you the owner of the blue 914 at the shop? would you be there tomorrow after noon for the tech talk?

Being in California, that really narrows it down, doesn't it....

Just had a 40 minute phone consult with the original poster.. He is still working to make a wise decision, and I told him to take his time and do his homework. After he shared with me the goals for the project I instructed him to do some more research and call the guys at FAT for some further information and pricing. Since he is local to them and already has an existing engine that may be a better fit for him.

He might want to go with my program, and I gave him all the details of what I'd build for him to include the 14,000 dollar price tag and delivery in March of 2012.

He had some really good questions and I believe he will end up making a wise decision.

My car is a 75 with a 3.2. I am curious being that its a 76 if you would also be stuck with adding a catalytic converter?

the car came with a cat therefore you need to keep the cat.
The 3.2 also came with a cat, therefore you need to keep with the cat.

when swapping motors you need to maintain the level of emission systems with whatever is the newest, car or motor.

Rich

I just got off the phone with Jake Raby, great guy and he answered all my questions...the only thing for me to do now is to chew on all my options and make the best decision for my project, but above all things I will like to tank all of you that give me your imput to help me make a better decision> Thank you all!

It takes more than a CAT. My guess is that your shop has been cheating for you for quite some time.

Hats off to them.

I have a '76 with all the legal gear to let it pass ANY smog station. It cost me $1000 to get it all done right and I am my own mechanic.

Work with FAT

Jake is awesome but California is California.

Nuf said

I have a 2.2 four cylinder built by FAT Performance. I've put about 20,000 miles on it so far with no problems. It produced 147 hp on the dyno. 44idf Weber carbs. Early on I had trouble with collapsing valve lifters and FAT took care of it, no problem. They have been building engines for a looong time. I can recomend them easily. With a 1976 year car, you will have some emissions issues. Don't spend any money until you have done some extensive research because you could very well end up with a car that cannot be registered in California. Don't bother asking the local DMV. They're just a money collecting agency. Go to the nearest CHP office and talk to a tech inspection officer. Good luck.
Cheers, Elliot

And 85% of what we build that doesn't get shipped out of this country is shipped to California. You'll pay more in state sales tax than shipping from Georgia costs... Generally twice as much on a serious purchase like this.

Lots to consider... You need to consider all of it and don't spend a dollar until you have zero reservations that your decision is the best.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

The issue is not solely the money or level of prep (believe me, I've spent bucketloads of cash and time on my little monster and it's still ongoing), it's the rules of the sanctioning org and how they treat each specific model/year/variant. POC rules have never been kind to 914's and (outside of the spec classes) it is essentially impossible for anything but a 911 to be competitive in the big track events. Short tracks are somewhat of a different story as the 914 is better suited there, but it's still a tough battle and you're running a 35-40 year old car against a 0-20 year old 911. I had a modified GT3 in my class for a while...go figure.

I digress - back to the OP's topic, I am a -6 guy unless the car will stay very close to stock in which case a D-Jet 2.0 is a fun ride and will hold its value nicely. I know the modified -4's have a big following but they just don't turn me on. YMMV.

Hi, I saw your car at a few POC short tracks and also at Werks 2 getting some work done to it, my car was actually build by them years ago and they kept it in storage for almost 12 years before I bought it from my uncle Bill Boyd. I'm not building my car to run at POC, for that I have a 944 with a 220hp Normally Aspirated power to the wheel to run against V3 r5 guys... work still being performed but I did run comparable times at Fontana and Willow so once I put it at the track i will have many of those guys questioning my car and traying to put me on GT classes jajajaja
The 914 will stay as a fun but well performing car for weekend drives or some short track runs... all this engine deal came around since I'm pulling the engine out to get some work done to it and the door of possibilities opened and I wanted to see if I was missing something... I guess not, now I just need to make the decision that best fits my project...

When I purchased my car it came without the smog equipment, I knew that from the beginning and I will not try to make legal again, the particulate amounts delivered with the equipment on and off the car are not enough no make me bring it back and spend that kind of money. I had a CHP friend look at my car and he could not tell weather the smog equipment was on the car or not...
If I decide to use FAT Performance they will use most of my parts to build the engine since most is already high end stuff it will be easy to go that route, If I go Mr Raby way it would cost me a lot more but I will get a complete new engine tuned to my style of driving. Putting a 6 will give the car more value but for my car to really gain value the engine would need to be smog legal all the way because is a 76, on older cars you can do anything and the value is up to the build and engine package regardless of Smog issues. California spends millions the wrong way with the smog regulations, 10 different types of fuels are not going to make us 0 emissions, neither visual inspections on diesel trucks, I went in with a full Banks package on my F-250 and they could not tell the difference but I was charged 75 dollar for the certificate go figure.

Or you could always sell the car and buy one that is smog exempt.

This thread reminds me once again why I'm glad I don't live in Cali.

Dion

IF you are going to stay a type 4 with FI as its a weekend driver then go with a 2056 with a Raby cam and Djet so the car is still fairly stock. You get about 120hp and the car is transformed! Light and quick especially if you run 205x50 tires and run the M and X third and four gears for a short ratio gear box.

Again, this is the money question, How much money do you want to spent to go how fast??

With the above set up you can stay with most folks on a short track but on the long ones you run out of hp although you can get up to 120mph with that setup. Its the inbetween speeds that this setup excels with the extra HP and short gears.

If you have buckets of money,put in a 3.2.

I love discussions like this...since i have them in my head about 100 times a day. I'll keep an eye on this one.

I have a 2.0 with carbs and a nice carb-camshaft...also have a 2.7 with CIS on the stand and good carbs for it on the workbench. I just have visions of a 3.2 in my head, but don't have one for a good price...

I change my mind about 2 times a day about which direction to take.

Glad to hear its Don's shop you are dealing with. Yes, the blue 914 there is mine. Its the Oly Blue car in my sig line.

I forgot about the tech session tomorrow. Crap. I would like to be there. I have to get some parts out to Don so I might make it there afterall.

I am dumbfounded that you have been able to get the car registered and smogged. I have a bitch of a time with that with my hotrods and for that reason, I won't buy a Porsche newer than a 75. I am trying to find legal headers for a Camaro right now and its gonna be expensive.

I changed my mind. Do the 2056, but keep D-jet so it looks legal. A smog inspection is supposed to match the US Emmissions sticker on your car to the hardware they can see. If you don't have an emmissions sticker, sooner or later you are going to need one. And no one has to know if the car was a CA version originally, or a 49 state version. They MAY be differnt, and have had different hardware.

Yes, but I am sitting by the pool today, playing tennis at Indian Wells tomorrow, and heading to the beach for the weekend.

I can put up with smog laws. I cant put up with snow. Ever.

Just sent Tavoman a follow up to our phone chat last night.. It included a dyno graph thats a reality for the engine I chose for him..

Good luck with your research, if you decide to choose my solution, my team will give you 100% at all times.
This is how complete my solution comes, right out of the crate

So out of curiosity, what displacement/HP is that motor Jake? Damn sexy, even sitting in that shipping crate, would be even sexier in my 914...

Rich, I think only the CA models came with the CAT and the silly assed 6' tube from the breather to the CAT. Otherwise e.g. a WA car, they were blocked at the breather and a bypass piece inserted in place of the CAT. But what do I know? jm2c.

2270 SS- 175 HP

Its mild. A good daily driver.

You really have to love 914's to invest that much money. For the price of your car and a hopped up four or stock six, you could buy a newer Boxster with more power, powered everything with AC for half the price. If you love 914's I would sell your car and buy one of the nice used one's in the 914world classifieds. You would get allot more bang for your buck. Flame suit on!!!

Hmmmm, just came in from the pool myself after riding 25 miles on the bike and spending all day driving the 914.

It's all relative. I moved here from Cleveland, so to me it's paradise.

I think that's about right. 175 hp
what's the price tag on that beauty!!
F.I. Mile High att.

Steve,

Your car does not need a cat. It's smog exempt in CA as a 75.

Matt

Thanks Matt, I already knew that. I haven't had to smog my car in years. I was just curious about the rules for a 76 and someone already replied on that one.

I'd guess that 2270ss would be 12-14k depending on options. But it's been a while since I seriously thought about a RAT engine...if I only had the $ to back my brainstorming

Gus,

Were you at the POC Fontana short-track / infield event last fall? If so then I do remember meeting you and seeing your car, which is really sweet.

I hope to see you around sometime soon. I'll be at that same event this year too; I think it's in October.

Cheers,

Prices start at 10k, most engines end up at 12.5-13k in reality and prices are only going up.
Building these engines is twice as difficult as it was 2005.
Not cheap, it's expensive to buy someone's life.

Would go with a -6 ….be warned, like many before you , it’s a money pit and it can get to be an obsession too.

Expensive to buy someone's life? Excuse me? All this talk about how expensive a 6 conversion is seems to be a little off. Don't get me wrong, but you can plant a nice reliable 3.0 in any 914 for under $10k. I'd be really curious to hear a debate about reliability. I can't imagine that anyone can make a good argument that a beefed up 4 cylinder that puts out as much horse power as a carbed 3.0 six cylinder is going to last as long and remain as reliable. If you spend $13k on a 4 cylinder, I'd imagine your still end up spending more money for an external oil cooler and an upgraded clutch along with headers. So in reality, the only difference in placing a 6 cylinder in your car would be: oil tank and lines, a six engine mount and a new tach. I believe you can still buy a good used running 3.0 for around $3k, a 2.7 for $2.5k a 3.6 for $6k...

Dan

The bickering about which is best has gone on here since the site began. The search is filled with all the comparatives and points of argument, so there is no reason for this thread to go in that direction.

Enough people choose the -4 solution prepared my way to keep us busier than we want to be. They make the decision with no stress involved.
Heck, if I wasn't going to install a 4 cylinder engine, I'd just go straight to a Suby engine.. The Porsche 6 hasn't ever been my favorite engine.

The beautiful part is that choices exist.

I will like to start by saying that JAKE Raby has not pushed the sale of his engines, he made it really clear that I had to wait for a while to get my engine and also offered the FAT option before his build because of time restrains so this guy is real and HONEST! He never told me once to buy his engine before someone else's... we did talk about my driving habits and what engines he had to offer for my style and the price for each... no pushy sales man just a cool guy helping some one to make a decision.

The argument of a 4 or a 6 on a 914 is long and passionate but my time exploring this options have brought me to put things in a little group:
Daily driver: keep it stock where you can or go 2056 for a bit more than usual power.
Weekend driver AX car: a 2056 or maybe Jake's option to not only get his HP but also the torque need it and reliability with less mass.
Weekend Racer: the Sky is the limit or maybe your wallet has you limited!!!!

I know my friend... and I'm passionate so that's why I'm taking it slow to make the right decision because either choice will require cash and plenty of it and it will never stop. so my idea is to come up with a budget and decide how far I want to re do my car and stop there regardless.... other wise it would have no end!!!

Very smart approach...just try not to end up in the nuthouse creating a pro/con list for each option.

Thanks for those compliments.. We have been blessed with great purchasers that appreciate what we create enough to keep us slammed with business.. That means we we don't have to be pushy or be selfish..

Let me know if you want to get started.. :-)

I went with the 6 conversion. I'm 2K into it and the engine still needs a rebuild, I need exhaust, oil tank, motor mount, modified shifter, throttle cable mod, oil cooler, engine tin and oil lines. Went it's all said and done I'll have 15K easy just into the engine conversion. Some guys could do it cheaper. They trip over deals or have crates of the stuff hidden away on shelves. I've never been lucky like that.

If you just want HP with minimal mods go big 4. I just had to have a 6 which made my choice easy but a bit more expensive.