My recent acquisition is up on jackstands for the first time and I decided to spend a little time under her skirt. I now regret it. I should note that I inherited this car so it only cost me a couple bills to trailer it from LA to my driveway in San Diego. I was okay not knowing much about the condition other than what I could see in pictures (see sig). It's been sitting for 8+ years and has 101k original miles.

I'm new to the 914 and have heard a lot about this "hell-hole". I decided to see what mine was like. As you can see from the pics, it's not good. While I know almost every 914 that has been driven to some extent has this problem, I just thought that due to the condition of the rest of the car, I would be immune. (Not really but one can always wish and hope)

While I knew I likely was not immune, it wasn't till I saw the damage that depression set in. I really just want to get this running again and drive it before I invest (dump) money into it. Kind of like your baby smiling at you to make all other bad memorys go away.

Anyway, I'm soliciting some reasonable advice. My main concern at this point is the structural integrity of the frame. The hole in the pic was not there until after I easily push it out with my fingers. It's about 4 inches. Inside the rocker is filled with, well, rocks, kicked up from the wheel well so it's hard to tell if the frame is compromised. From looking inside the well, the opposite wall is in tact. I can't push through it with my finger and tapping it seems solid. Jack-pad, suspension connections, etc all look structurally in tact. Car is on stands using the jackpad and there is no give.

Is it possible the rust started high and worked it way down over the years of sitting and be isolated to just this area? Does the frame rust out from direct exposure to acid/water or does the rust creep from where my rust is? What bums me out is I don't have the space/tools/experience to do the fabrications I've seen needed to fully rapair this area. My hope is stuctural soundness can be confirmed and add it to the list of things I'd do down the road.


Forgive me for the bad pic. I snapped it with my cellphone as I didn't expect anything picture worthy while under the car. I'll probably go down there again with my SLR and wide-angle to get better pics.

Do some searches for hell hole, rust repair, rustoration, ect on this site. Hours of info on where to look for rust and what's involved to fix it. Also look behind the seats under the floor pan tar, rear suspension console under the battery, rear trunk and any place that may collect and hold water.

PS - the hell hole areas is usually comprimised first due to the battery acid washing over that spot so you ...may.... get lucky.

While it doesn't look good, it might not be as bad as it looks, structurally speaking. That hole appears to exist in the engine tin shelf portion. To really get a good idea we need to see the he'll hole area from the top looking down under where the ecu is. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Was there a battery in the car for the entire 8 years it sat?

If the PO had removed the battery before parking it, there will be far less damage than if he left it in.

Oh, and look up inside the wheel well and see if you can find any soft spots on that side.
If NOT you are in decent shape.

Stu

Battery was left in. Not sure what changed but it appears look newer. I'll check the date but the tray doesn't look terrible. By the looks of inside the engine compartment, it doesn't appear the rust is from a leaky. Doesn't mean it never happened, just not from the battery that's there now.

Yeah...Porsche did a bad job with engine compartment water drainage. I wonder what they were smoking.

I thought VW did the chassis and Porsche did the engine/suspension...

you need to pull the rocker covers...
clean out the crud piled against the longs (under the rocker covers) and explore your jack post and longitudinals

this will help complete the assessment of your frame integrity question

I believe it was Porsche designed, VW built.

you must view this thread ...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=16748

jim

... and better you found it & address it now first, instead of snapping the 914 in half on a hard set of corners!

Contact Sean who has a shop down there & is on here, and he can help you assess & with ways to tackle it - whether you want to do it or have him do it -
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3541
IIRC his shop is in University Heights, but he may respond to & come to your place!

Your other pix on your starting the engine post also showed rust thru at the rear trunk's rear floor, so take care of that too. You can find decent used body panels around SoCal to cut-n-weld in (Terry/xperu (?), Bruce Stone/bdstone & others on here usually have used parts), or use new &/or repro panels.

Many 914 Repro panels can be had here -
http://www.restoration-design.com/Merchant...tegory_Code=914
... check them in the member vendors section for any 914world specials.

You'd better also check your floor panels, door bottoms & under the outer door seals' channels on the doors, and behind the steering rack cover on the underpan - esp. around the front suspension crossmember struts (they sit below the Brake MC reservoir @ L side & windshield washer reservoir R respectively, so can be susceptible to rust through at that critical point).

Based on the total work needed, you can decide whether you want to repair & drive it, or use it as a parts car for your next 914 or sell off the parts. Here's a condition assessment form to help you out -
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_Gen_914CAF.pdf

There's also lotsa other great 914 info & parts at Jeff's websites -
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/
http://www.bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/
http://bowlsby.net/914/WiringHarnesses/
http://bowlsby.net/914/PartsFS/

Another great 914 info source is at p914.com
... as well as here & 914club.com & ClubNARP.com & Pelican's tech areas on 914s.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

Thanks everyone for your input. You all are a relentless source of information.

I attacked my car with a screwdriver and shopvac Saturday and here are pictures of the results. Removal of the rocker cover was almost painless except when a pound of road dirt dumped on my face. I had to grind off one of the screws under the jackpad as it was seized.

From the pictures, how serious is this. I know I've seen a lot worse, and a lot better. I know holes in structural parts are not good but does this render the car undrivable? The choice I'm contemplating is the willingness to invest money in fixing the rust. I am if the rest of the car doesn't become a money pit. I'm not if I'm looking at an engine rebuild or other significant overhaul.

Because I haven't paid anything for the car, I'm not pot committed which is probably adding to my hesitations. The thought of selling the car bums me out too.

One thought I had is if frame is not safe to drive, can I reinforce the rusted section with minimal cost? I've seen stiffening kits that are also used to repair rusted longs.

After screw driver attack and shopvac cleanup. That's the top of the long. There is also I hole I punch through the firewall. Required some effort but it's there.


Where the fuel pump is supposed to mount from underneath.


From inside rear passenger wheel well looking forward. That rust spot is where the battery tray mounts to inside wall.


Rusted just above rear passenger jack pad. That hole wasn't there. It was after tapping around with a hammer that I found a soft spot and poked screwdriver through.


The rust along the bottom seam was a good indicator the frame is rusted inside.


No rust found on the floorpan.

I would double check that ...

What you are looking at is the painted top side of a thick layer of sound deadening material. I bet you a nickle that there's rust underneath, especially since it has already cracked on top.

Do the "crunch" test and apply pressure (especially on the lower portions) and listen for a crunch noise. That's you moving the rust under the tar ...

Fair enough. I did poke around a lot but didn't pull seat surround and look. Really right now I'm more concerned about the rust that will keep this off the road. I'm fully expecting to have to more in depth rust remediation (rear trunk pan...) but that doesn't make it undrivable.

Forgot to include link to the rest of the pics I took.https://picasaweb.google.com/scott.kaufmann


Also, look what I found to see why I couldn't find the gears... nice.

Your Hell Hole doesn't look too bad from the pictures but i wouldn't want to drive it that way.

If you have experience in automotive welding, you could fix that the right way and be done with it.
You will have to open up that back section of the long and get inside. There's really no other way.

If you don't feel up to the task find someone locally who has experience with 914 body work ...

Don't think it's a hell hole
Hasn't made it past purgatory.
With a little TLC, will look like heaven

That is not a hell hole. That is a normal hole. It might still grow to bea hell hole, but currently it is no big problem - but you do need to fix it.

Zach

Rust in the passenger long also comprimises the atachment point for the seat belt, putting your passenger at risk.

Us East Coasters are jealous..... I think it should be a pretty straight forward fix. I'm in the middle of my repair that looked 5X as bad. I have no prior welding experience, and think my repair is coming along pretty well. If I can do it, anyone can.

Thanks all for the encouragement. I'm warming up to the idea of trying to tackle this (if only part of it) myself. I'm reaching out to locals to see what makes sense to do myself and to have others do.

When I do something, it has to be done right or it pisses me off. Sometimes it's best for my sanity and lifespan to have someone else do what they are good at.

Overall it does not look too bad. The problem is, it's always worse than it looks. Pull the motor, put it on jack stands and fix it. buy a welder (name brand), if you dont have one. Learn to weld on some scrap and make it whole again. Then drive the shit out of it!

Sean Malloy - local to you & experienced in 914 rust repair.

Buy a welder and have some fun. What do you have to loose?

hmmm. most of that is engine shelf but I do see rust thru on the vertical section just aft of the jack point.
whacha doin friday? Ill swing by and we can check out your score.

Pull the seat, lift the carpet,remove the upholestered bulkhead(remove the screws ,pull the bottom forward and down) pull the sound deadening material away from the bulk head. That small hole in the bulkhead below the seam in the pics you posted of the hell hole below the battery traywill be there. I just opened up mine yesterday and it looks almost exactly the same as yours-- except a little worse.

Yeah, I know there's rust there. I barely got my screwdriver through the firewall into the passenger seat. It's not nearly as bad. I didn't pull the bulkhead simply because I already know it's there and need not see it right now.

To me it would be a bit like giving my dog's shit a good sniff... it's not necessary.

[quote]Yes it's there. If you are trying to make an informed decision then you need some facts. If yer dog's shit smells worse than usual then maybe he's sick. Or you need to watch what he eat's. No dead squirrels an stuff. Anyway just my nickels worth. (inflation ya know)

nice.

I was tryin to post some pics but not havin any luck. My pile is a 72 1.7 d-jet also. Don't let it sit too long. The pistons rust in the bores in the brake calipers and when you hit the brakes they don't retract. It's happened to me twice now. Really a pain in the ass to get them out. But --- When I got them out I just cleaned up everything and it worked fine----- until it sat. Again. pacific nw weather. If yer getting any moist air off the water you may have the same problem. These teeners can be a cruel mistress. Oh so sweet!! then such a bitch!!! HaHa At least it won't rust any more in AZ

Thanks! That's good to know. I haven't begun to plan for brakes yet. It's on 4 jackstands with 4 flat tires. I figured I'd assume everything is shot so when I get to them, I have a chance of some good news.

sean_v8_914 came by last night and took a look at the car. He gave me confirmation that any effort to get this car back on the road will not be wasted.

Floorpans are basically rust free. The seat surround has only minor signs of moisture damage in the lower passenger side corner. The only signs of non-surface rust are the hellhole and the trunk as expected.

I've already pulled the tank and will get it refinished. Next step is replace all the soft fuel lines and oil/filter etc and see if this thing fires up!