No time like the present to start delegating. IMHO AX is fun, but getting out on a real track beats bending pylons.

Willow wants $2000-3000 to rent 'streets' for the day. Price varies on time of year, but weekdays are obviously cheaper. If we again get a turnout of 75 cars, that's about $30 per car plus $10 track entry per person. There are other costs, so figure $50 per WCC entry.

Assuming other area tracks cost about the same, that seems affordable. But we would need staffing for flags, timing, instructors, safety class, yada yada. Drew, would you be willing to organize this? I'm sure that POC would love to have us in smaller doses for their track days, but do you think they would want 70+ teeners? Would they want everyone to join POC? You know them better, so please see what you can find out.

MikeZ, SB PCA is having their monthly Ventura breakfast @ Camarillo airport 7/3. Thought I would crash, and see what's cooking there. Why are you pissed at them? Anything that would affect AX? Is the SLO group better?

Slits, Toast. Please look into inbred empire locations.

Scott, said you knew some OC/SD Porsche people? What are our options there? Lagunero, any ideas?

Having the event in Spring or Fall gives us more options since we don't need to fight inland heat, and hotel rates are usually lower. I know that may hurt because of vacation schedules, but as Drew said, there weren't many school age kids @2004.

Hopefully we'll have more info when we meet at the deli. Once the track part is going, the rest should fall into place. Opinion again, but I'm not that concerned with tying into swap meets and such unless they happen to fall into our track plans.

I had a thought with regard to school age kids. they do get a week for spring break. That may work out too. The begining of June is not good with finals and stuff like proms, etc. But early spring may allow more families to attend. Just a thought.

Howard; Since several of the recent POC short track events have had over 100 cars and I believe they say 120 is the max. I'm not sure we could squeeze in but I'll keep thinking about it and see what Marty thinks about it. Trying to squeeze that many cars into one run group might be like rush hour commuting. Trying to do our own day at the track still brings up the insurance question.
I feel there may be a considerable number of attendees that don't mind giving an AX a try but would feel intimidated by a full track event even the streets. Don't know for sure, it's just a thought.
If you could find out the possibility of a Ventura AX the weekend of the German Autofest it might be a consideration.

What would be way cool would be to tie into the Long Beach Gran Prix and use that track, but I think that is just dreaming. I will check with some people I know down here and have the info for the meeting. I dont think there is a snowballs chance in hell of doing the LBGP track.

I, for one, wouldn't drive my car at the LBGP. Too damn many walls. Also, there is absolutely no way we could get in there.

Forget the LBGP.
Let's just go to this track.
I have a contact who works there as a Marshall.

Cute, let's just hit the 'ring

Spoke to Willow today. Here is breakdown for 'Streets'. Weekday 8am to 5pm.

Track rental $2000
Event Insurance 667 $5mil
EMS Services w/paramed 350

Total $3017.

Weekends are pretty much all taken, Fridays add a charge of $10 admission per person. Plenty of room to set up AX and still have track available.

No limit on number of cars/drivers. Fast enough that would need instructors, corner workers, flag and safety class. But loads of track time without horning in on anyone's party. Mini restaurant at big track, and we can get a roach coach out.

Forget June to September. It's 100 in the shade and no shade. Could we get enough players on a Thursday or Monday in April to have this make sense? We could go to a nice place to stay (the beach?), and make this a one night stand to open or close the event. It's a little over 2 hours drive from LAX.

Can we get pricing on other locations?

Willow

Howard, do they need an insurable identity?

100 bucks each - 31 people.

sounds reasonable to me.
do we have enough instructors?
I've never run the streets course, is it spin-off friendly?

I've done the big track, but never streets, so I din't know if there were walls, fences or anything nearby.

Slits, not at all. Just trying to get some numbers in the mill. Not sure if I want to piggy back whole event or have our own party. With you and Toast as entertainment co-chairs, I'm already going into training.

Sean, friendly track. 3 times as 'technical' as big track at half average speed. Faster than AX, but mainly 2nd and 3rd with a dab into 4th on main straight for 4 bangers. Hopefully it will be 100 @$31 each, and will go for sponsors (listening Otto?).

Race instructors, no. If we use any track, believe we should adopt POC's formula of corner line diagram class, then being driven around the correct line by an experienced driver in a sedan, then 3 classes: novice 1, intermediate 2, and racer 3. 1's ride with 2's for a couple of laps, 2's with 3's, 3's show off or drive 1's and 2's around.

Track provides short term insurance coverage with them as the named insured, and a certificate of add'l insurance to '914world.com and its members as their interests may appear'.

Buttonwillow can do the same, not sure about others.

Several people bitched (including myself ) about the price of 2004 WCC registration.

If people complained about the $30 entry fee for the AX, then wouldn't they have a bit of a problem paying the additional $100 to do an AX?

Does the AX NEED to be on a track? Wasn't it in a parking lot last year?

Plus, Scott has complained about traveling distances. Streets of Willow is 70 miles from Riverside. Yea, its probably closer from OC, but it is till at least an hour drive! Plus nothing nearby for familys. Plus in the dry, hot dessert.

Just saying..........

streets wouldn't be an autocross, it would be a real track day, more than 1 car on the track at a time.

Toast, I'm not even sold the we need AX/track to make event a success. We could go to a Golf and Stuff and hold a triathalon of mini golf, malibu cars, and arcade. Or Dave and Buster's!!

But everyone keeps telling me we need to exercise the 914's. I'm getting a little old for street racing, so it's AX or Track. As Sean noted, track day with instruction, multiple cars on the track (but no passing except in the one straight), is a hell of a lot better than 10 AX events.

As to cost, don't worry. Let's say we get 75 cars and 25 add'l attendees for WCC 2005. $150 entry, $30 for add'ls gives us almost $12k to work with before sponsor $$. I think it's OK to assign $3k for the track day. 50 AXers at someone elses venue @$30 per car is $1500. I'll bet we can get sponsors to pay the difference.

With the exception of the Glen, 'ring, Mosport, Monaco, and a few others, auto tracks are built to take advantage of cheap real estate, not natural beauty. Any competition events will be held in hellhole locations. I don't think the overall event should be housed at any of them. Rather have one 75 mile commute at the beginning or end of the event.

As to the entire event location, worry. San Jose was obvious up north as most of the admins are in bay area. We shlepped in from all over and paid lodging, food and gas bills they did not. The real test of this is how many NorCal types make the trip down. Track would do it; AX may not.

Unless the event is held within 20 minutes of my home I figure to be in the hotel. Not many of us will be lucky enough to commute, so the biggest cost of WCC will be food and lodging.

I think these events work best when almost everyone is staying at the host hotel. Much more time for BSing at the bar and whatnot.

Lagunero, any ideas?

Nothing Boss. Looks like Willows is doable. But the travel distance/time is still a problem. One of the reasons I had mentioned the expense reports was to see how much from the WCC fee can we count with in regards to AX costs. Toast had/has a good point, what did I pay for? Once the breakfast was rescheduled to 7'ish, it made it impossible for me to make it, therefore missing the breakfast, 17 mi. drive (money in bag that Andy later gave me had the 8.50) and not to mention the boxed lunch for my son and I. Soooooo...100 on top of that for Willow? No thanks. I share my experience so you can see why many questioned the fee. Once we know what we can afford with the 04 budget we can plan events that are enticing and worth the trouble. I believe most people are willing to pay for quality entertainment and a real track is something to consider.

I have to agree, a full track day would be great and I would not mind driving for that. I dont even care much about the temps. I like the idea, a lot. One track day, one beach party day. That would take care of 2 days, how many days are we talking aobut having this? Is there a way we could have like a tech session at one of these places? I know the beach would be more of a party thing, and teh track would be more of a race thing, maybe we could have a day of tech sessions if everyone is so interested in that. I always thought the tech sessions would be little weekend things at someones shop with only about 8 or 10 guys show up. I dont see families coming together and listening to technical crap about cars.

I starting writing the previous at 3ish (I'm busy at work and can't always finish what I start). Sean, BSing at the lobby didn't really happen until Sat. night and since most members are from that area, at least I didn't see them at the hotel. On Friday after Laguna we kinda hung out at the parking lot but no beer. It was fun but I (like most) will like to see more organized after event get togethers, making it posible to have a Willows and not participate in that and still know that I can see the members laters that day/night.

Slits; I don't think we should be ruling out the Festival of Speed. I think we're all just pulling stuff out of the air seeing if anything sounds good. When does the presentation need to be submitted? Before or after the July 10 meeting?

Whoa! It would not be an additional fee. And where did the $100 number come from?

\\Rant on, not aimed at you, Alberto..
How much should we charge? We're not trying to make a profit, but can't have a loss. I'm sure we'll all end up donating time and $$ to the cause without compensation. I bought and printed the name tags for 04, didn't get a dime, or even a public thank you. That's what being a volunteer is all about.

I'm thinking $150 entry per car, about the same as taking the family to a Dodger game (hot dogs, parking, beverages, etc.) Think it's too much? Give me a number. You get to bring the whole family (or support group) for no add'l entry fee, just pay for their meals and lodging. That's a friggin' bargain.
\\Rant off.

If we get 80 @ $150 that's $12k. Is it worth taking 25% of that toward track rental for a day? That's what we'll have to decide. That will leave us 9k for shirts, meals, and goodie bags. But track or AX or lunch or winery tour will not be a separate charge. Everyone pays the entry fee and goes to each event as they see fit. We can drop the entry fee and offer less.

But all we need to decide now is, Our own track or someone else's AX?

Andy, I was writing my diatribe as you posted festival of speed stuff. It all sounds good, and you're right, these are idea tossing. There is no time cutoff for the decision, but sooner is better, especially if we are using another club's event(s) or trying to rent a track.

We aren't 'submitting' this to anyone, just trying to put on an enjoyable weekend.

Slits had posted that the PCA group had wanted a written proposal for doing an AX at Festival of Speed. That's what that was about.

I re-read the thread (lil rap never hurts) and I think I got lost somewhere in it (nothing new). Howard, I wasn't aware you did that. THANK YOU! I mean it! My nose is already brown so know that my appreciation is sincere. Who's Andy?

ANdrew365. And I'll go and read slits's post about festival of speed again

Thanks Boss but no need for such courtesies, just say what needs to be said. Regarding much to charge Still to early to say. Contact Bowlsey. Andy looking forward to meeting you in person. We should end up with more sponsors for 05 or least more out of the previous sponsors. I have a few in the crosshairs and hope to have some good news by the 10th.

There's most of it. It's promising enough that we should keep it on the list. Good leg work by Slits.

Howard, lets see if I can try to rephrase what I said to makes a little more sense.

In WCC2004, the basic entry fee was like 80, plus 30 for each additional. *Please not that i'm not 100% certain on these prices as follows.* If you were doing AX, that was an additioal 30. If you were selling at the swapmeet, that was an additional 25.

What I ment by the additional $100 is an additional 100 for the AX, and additonal XX for whatever, in addition to the base cost.
Did that make any more sense?

I dont know how much to charge at this point.

I do not have a problem donating time and money for WCC 2005. Anyone that does or is intending on making a profit probably should not be a participant in the planning.

Looks like y'all are well on your way to a great WCC 2005...



I found pricing the event was fairly simple in concept:

* Unit price each item and charge per attendee accordingly. Some things like the T-shirts will require a minimum # to get decenmt pricing...its a risk. 100 shirts were ultimately ordered for WCC2004, and in retrospect we should have ordered more. We ended up giving shirts not only to the 72 paid registereds, but also 15 sponsors, 3 'honorary attendees' and a few others. I am sure that additional shirts would have sold at the event for wives, GF and SOs...keep thinking about the /extra things' you'll need as the event develops

* I really support the idea of making it a charity event...wish we had done it...take that idea further maybe? We could spend a couple hours at a kids hospital and give disabled kids open top rides in a 'Porsche'...in additinoal to $$$...maybe? It also allows the finance committee to charge enough to cover unforseen costs...like shipping goodie bags and trophies to participants that didnt show up, or sponsors thank-you packages with their goodies...I had forgotten about those costs...

Dinner time...more later...

"unforseen costs". That's what I'm talking about. Thanks Jeff, your input will be priceless. Ok, I'm going wait til the master plan is given to Howard. Wake me up before you go-go.

Just so everyone's clear on this, I'm against add-on fees (unforseen costs). One fee, per car, for the entire WCC 05. That's the $150 I was thinking about. It would include everything but meals and lodging. And it really doesn't really matter what we charge as all proceeds are going back to the members. You wanna pay $150 and get a hat and shirt, or $120 without? But this, like the sponsor stuff can wait.

What shouldn't wait is AX or Track? When? Our own event or tagging on? Where? City or country location? Ratio of activities, social/Porsche? I believe admin has their own agenda (who the hell is on the finance committee?) but nobody has told me what it is, so let's proceed with those decisions.

Let's consider polling the members as to what they would like, and how to make most of them happy most of the time so more of them attend. Our biggest out of territory market is NoCal and NW. What will it take to get them to make the drive? Someone will bitch no matter what, so stay thick skinned.

And Jeff, pls respond to my email or post numbers from 04.

Thanks for chiming in Bowlsby. And thanks for letting me register late last year.

Howard, I will still believe that seperat cost for AX and whatever should be seperate. Not all of last years attendee's did AX or sell at swap meet. I would still keep AX seperate, at least, for those that dont want to or dont have a car to.

I mentioned early on about doing a poll to find out what members think about location. And possible what they feel about some of the ideas. Like Streets of willow...a personal track day. Or festival of speed. Two seperat locations. Beach party? Twisty drive on mountain with cliffs or flat land?

Some of these things, if polled, could possibly help us decide on a location. Something costal and more northern may bring people from No. Cal but not thoes from AZ. If its in Inland Empire, it may deter North west attendees in Oregon, Wa. or Co. , but could bring more So, Cal. (lol) AZ, and NV members.

Lets do a poll.

Toast, have to agree on this. Will do a poll. Actually several, since lots of questions. And why was there a charge for the swap meet? Did Club have to pay someone? Did the other club charge per driver on AX? That would not apply to us if we held our own event. Let's see what the people want. Back to the main board.

The swap nor the PCA Concours was not run by the 914club, so the fees went directly to the other group that ran it...(Partsheaven) for anyone that participated. Only 2-3 people from our group were swap vendors...so it stands to reason that they should pay their own way for that.

We included the AX in the 'fixed fee' for a couple reasons. We didnt think that the WCC woud attract any AXers if we didnt offfer an AX, and we needed a minimum of 30 cars to run the AX or GGR would not have bothered with a separate track for us. That and we wanted to encourage the great majority of 914 owners to AX...many had not AX'd before the WCC. So everyone paid for the AX, and most drove in it.

Another big cost of the WCC 2004 was the breakfast. When you look into catering a meal like that, you just cannnot pay at the door and guess on how many will show up like its an IHOP. We needed a head count and it was prepaid to the caterer.

No email from you Howard...?

Howard; good job with the polls. They should give a good direction for planning. I'm going up to Mammoth Thursday thru Monday so you won't hear from me during that period. No computer in the cabin! I'm real busy at work trying to get ready to leave town but will check in this evening.

So there was a small "fixed" fee, plus a fee (i think it was 30) if you actually going to drive your car in the AX. Am I correct on this?
I did not drive, but I went to the AX for a while. It was lots of fun watching people wang their teeners around.

No, the price was built-in. The only add-on cost was for a 2nd (non-registered driver). For instance: I registered for $100, autocross was included, but my GF was there it would be an additional $30 or so for her to autocross as well (2 drivers in one car).

I'm pissed at them because they refused to get behind my AX idea for Earl Warren Showgrounds.

I used to run AXs there...then a new Fair Manager came on, tossed us off....he got fired and I made an appointment with the new guy.....he invited us back. All we had to do is a get a safety plan in, get it approved by the Board and boom...we be back.

The SB PCA prez sent me a nasty email note and I told him to go fuck himself and resigned.

Pretty stupid as the AX was always money maker and was local....but this jerk lives in Ventura and likes the Cammarillo airport, which is a joke.

The SBPCA concours LOSES money and he turned down a sure thing....jerkoff.... :finger2:

Can ya tell I'm unhappy???

BTW....if the event makes money....we might run afoul of IRS rules.....

Might want to consider getting an incorporation or status as a non profit.....any scum sucking....err.... lawyers on the planning committee?

Consider a co-op....if the event makes money....refund to the attendants, or roll over to next year for reduced costs....

Good job Slits. The letter pretty much sums up the situation. I'd only recommend that our inability to get insurance not be so prominent in the first correspondence. It kind of puts us in a weak position for any negotiation that may go on. If they want us at their event we'll be covered under the event insurance even is we were able to get our own. Just a thought. I commend your initiative?

I'm going to a POC Instructors Certification Course next Saturday and I will try to get more info and contacts for our event. Howard, does the track arrange for the paramedic crew?

No, but they gave me the numbers for them and the corner workers. Spoke to the parameds, they're fine and go to just about any track we want.

Seems like BB is a bit spendy. But, it is a beautiful resort town on the lake.

Thanks Slits for checking into it!

Since a track has not been reserved yet or a date set, I will contact some hotels by the Ontario Mills Mall in case we decide to go with I.E. or CFOS.

Hi all,

I flew through some of the info you posted. Looks like your working to get this done.

I'm not from California, I'm not on the planning committee for the 05 event.

But I was looking at the map trying to make some sense of the event locations I was reading about. I like the track idea at Willow Springs. I like the beach Idea. What about headquartering someplace in the middle? My mapping software shows Santa Clarita about half way between Willow Springs and Ventura. Looks like about 112 miles from the coast to Willow Springs Raceway.

Like I said, I'm not from California and I don't know anything about the beaches in Ventura and the Hotel accomidations in Santa Clarita. But maybe there is a better location about halfway between the two.

Just for you Rick.

Remap going via Pyramid Lake. 103 miles that way. The way you mapped is all freeway, and faster during non peak hours, but goes through some heavier traffic on I5 amd SR14.

Santa Clarita, Palmdale, and Lancaster all in the desert. Not bad if you like that sort of thing, but not much of a pull for out of area types (or most of us, either). Santa Clarita does have 6 Flags amusement park, but that's about it.

Gotta be mountains or beach to find resorts. This ain't 10,000 lakes here unless you count the dry ones

Thanks for the info Howard. Like I said, I'm not from there. I was looking at those area's purely for the central location. Kinda like the Bay was for 04. Granted the Prune Yard was nice.... I can't speak for anyone else but a bed is a bed. After 8:00 am I'm there for the events. A 50 to 60 mile drive to and from an event should be do-able without wearing you out before you get there.


OK, I'll butt out now..