Here are some photos of the new aluminum oil tank. It has stock OEM fittings, and is a direct bolt in for a factory tank. It has additional oil capacity of about 1 1/2 quarts.

I've got one more in stock, and I've got all the factory tank seals, boots, and 914-6 oil lines.

PK
914 Network
a914man@netease.net

Another photo

A detail shot of the critical area. It uses a stock Porsche filter console. Sorry the res. isn't better.

PRICE... we need pricing. Much better than the cast Vellios stuff... but he really needs to find a better welder or have the sheet pieces cut to tighter tolerance.

I know it goes in the fender... but quality..quality..quality.


B

OH.. can I order them with AN fittings in the -20 variety and -16 ?



B

It looks like it was Mig welded. I wonder why it wasn't Tig'd? Or he just used waay too much rod.

If the pieces dont fit.. the welder has to "fill the gap".

I know Dave Shepard has contacts with Ron Davis. You would think that RD could whip this out "total pro" like their radiators.


B

It does look quite "home made" for lack of a better term. I guess price is the key thing, but honestly I would not be inclined to use a clone part for a crucial application like this unless it were 1/2 (or less) or the real thing became totally NLA.

Don't take the above the wrong way...I am definitely always stoked to hear when people are making specialty 914 parts.

More capacity is gooder. 9.5 to 11 quarts in a stock system.

I do hope that's a prototype... or if not, is priced accordingly.

Are those large seams going to rub anywhere (i.e. through paint and cause rust long-term)?

-Lawrence

Perry,
I think that looks very nice! Contrary to the amateur critics around here. :finger2:
A good welder who can make strong and consistantly attractive tig welds in aluminum is hard to find. I don't think there is anything wrong with those welds.
If it were being made in production quantities I might expect a higher level of precision in the weld beads.
If it fits and doesn't leak it is much better than the cast aluminum tanks.

Being an amateur critic myself, from what I've heard alumn is very tough to make pretty. I think people are too used to seeing master welders on TV shows making alumn welds look like a stack of nickles If the price is low, maybe there will be more 6 cyl converts out there (even though I like the oddball stigma of a big 4).

Looks damn good

Is there any baffles inside ??

How many hours and at what hourly rate does it take to weld up a tank like this? I would think that is where most of the cost is.

Perry,

sorry for all the anoying questions...
I'd be interested in the weight of this one?

do you really think it will be lighter than stock? looks like a toss up, but its probably unreasonable for me to guess on a picture.

thanks and no rush
brant

Yes! And that goes for all of the other stuff that shows up around here.

This is the best reproduction oil tank I've ever seen AND, it's made from a material that's not going to rust. Mechanically it is identical to the factory tank, ie baffling, bolting up, filter console and filler neck mounting, boots, OIL LINE CONNECTIONS, etc.

The factory tanks weigh right at 7.6 lbs and these weight 5.8lbs.

At this time there is not, or has not ever been a reproduction 914-6 oil tank like this.

If you wanted to convert to AN, you can remove the factory oil line fittings and use M22 x 1.5 adapters. AND, it holds more oil.

It may be hard for some to understand this, developing a tank like this takes time which equals money. Not everyone is going to go through the trouble of disecting a factory tank, developing the designs for the custom machined internal parts, and then GIVE IT ALL AWAY, or post all the blueprints on the internet and HOW YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF!

The suggested retail price is around $700. Factory tanks are now over $800.

The Velios tanks were/are like $495 (if you can get one or would want to get one after seeing these tanks), and from my experience one out of four is a leaker. AND they weigh in at probably three times the weight of this new tank. At this point, and the problems I had dealing with George Velios, I wouldn't sell any of his products. In addition to the fact that I've heard he's gone out of business anyway.

$700 to $750 was my guess on price. Hand built and worth every penny. This is the product I will recommend to any -6 conversion customers I have in the future.
Thanks Perry!

BTDT. Before I found my original factory tank I did some measurements, drawings and two protos. My problem was the welding. I was not satisfied with my welds



Are you going to post the blueprints and do some DIY pages ?? That would be great idea, but I think I misunderstood something.......

Not to piss on this parade, but the fact that aluminum does not "rust" does not in any way say that you won't have any problems. I had an oil filter console (aluminum) where the flange outside of the O-ring was completely corroded away. Actually, rust is a particular form of corrosion that affects iron and steel. The biggest problem is where aluminum and steel come together and you get galvanic corrosion. You only have to take a look at any aluminum parts on the car to see what problems can develop. That said, I'd go for an aluminum tank myself. Just install carefully.

The tank looks nice, I have used both factory and the cast tank from V. As long as you get the later tanks from V with the baffle in it, you should be fine. Yes, it is pretty heavy, but aslo pretty sturdy. If you can find a factory tank, use it. Many backyard "Bob's" can make parts, but cannot compete with the money spent to develop a part like the factory can. If this tank is truly in the $700 range, I would opt for a factoy tank. Otherwise, you might as well go buy a good universal tank for $250 and stick it in the front trunk. You can have a 20qt system if you want then, plus lines already run for a cooler etc. I make quick six bars and 914-6 tin for my conversions. But nothing I would want to sell. It all looks like hell, but works great. It takes so long to make the stuff, I would have to charge a lot of money to sell it just to break even. This tank looks like the same? If it could be produced in numbers and the price dropped some, I might pick up a few.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh, V is still around, disapeared for a while, but I picked up a tank from him not too long ago.

The point I was making is that I don't know anyone that's going to pay a fabricator and a machinist to prototype a tank for free. I don't know for sure, but I'd guess it would take several weeks to do all the work, and get it right. Would you pay someone to develop something like this, and then give the design away for free? Part of the price of virtually any product is development.

PK

I would post the information but then I'm not as capitalistic as most. I try to write up stuff that I do to my 'toys' and post it to my web site so I can help others. My alternator conversion is a good example. To be fair, I'm in it for the hobby and not to make a living -- that does change things, of course.

With the suggested pricing given you can be sure I would buy the appropriate gas and put my MIG welder to use!

Yea, and if it leaks you are going to spend money on shipping, and then wait for that %#@** to make it right.

The last time I ordered four tanks, and paid for them up front. I got one after about three weeks, another about six months later, and after fourteen months of calling him every three weeks or so, and getting continually lied to, as well as threatening him with legal action, I finally got the other tanks, one of which LEAKED!

I wouldn't deal with that guy even if there was a gun to my head, and I wouldn't suggest doing business with him (even to someone I didn't like).

The last time I spoke with him (and threatened legal action if he didn't send me what I had already paid for) he pissed and moaned about having his bulkhead engine mount ripped off. Well too bad. When you make it difficult for people to conduct business with you, or are dishonest, you get what you get.

PK

Your money would be better spent buying the oil tank!
Trust me on this one. Unless you have experience fabricating and welding aluminum, it's just not worth the trouble. BTW, Mig is not a good choice for this sort of work IMPO.

I have some experince welding aluminum besides I like learning stuff and it doesn't look that difficult. And if I decide I can't do I'm not above having an expert take over but at least I tried and learned.

I'm not trying to insult, but you aren't going just "buy the appropriate gas" and start aluminum welding.

Have you ever tried welding aluminum with with a MIG? First of all you really need a high quality MIG welder, and a spool gun. Unless you've paid a couple grand for your MIG, you are mistaken. But don't listen to me, go get a spool of aluminum wire and some pure argon, and see what happens.

These tanks aren't MIG welded. Anyone with welding skills and experience knows that.

Then there is the issue of design, and the requisite machine work. This isn't something that someone just stitched together and threw it out there to see who would buy it. There are critical sub assemblies to the oil tank (factory or this one) that have to be manufactured well before you grab your trusty MIG and start squirting aluminum around.

Lastly, and this is my own .02. I've built a few six conversions, and from my experience the $200 (between this tank and the other aluminum conversion tank) is not going to be the "make or break" difference in putting together a six cylinder conversion. $200 is a spit on the griddle, especially if you are trying to do a class job. I don't know anyone that's built one for less than $10,000. The oil system is a critical component of any quality conversion. I mean, we are talking about an engine that would cost upwards of $5000 to rebuild.

Sure you can get a race tank and hack up the front trunk and everything in between to plumb it up. How many oil tanks are out there that you can fit with all the correct factory components and bolt right into the car, AND add oil capacity?

As far as giving technology away, if you want to do it , that's great. But if you are in the parts business(for the last 20 years) and develop a product like this to sell, you'd be a bonehead to give the design away.

I mean, I don't care if you buy a tank or not, sure I'd like to sell you one, or have you get one from GPR. But when a respected professional fabricator (like Chris Foley) says that it's a fair deal, what's the beef?

FWIW I found a NOS factory tank for $400 not that long ago. Cash deal, no shipping or taxes. Scores are still out there if you have a bit of luck and timing.

Again maybe it's just me but I do not see anything compelling to lead me to buy this product at no significant cost savings compared to the factory part...now when the factory tank becomes NLA Any Day Now then we will all be kissing the ground that somebody makes these specialized parts.

Perry, I wish you would have a little conviction and quit sitting on the fence about this issue!

Good one James! I feel this way about your stuff too, I just haven't sold any yet.

PK

Don't get me wrong, I don't know V at all. Just used his tanks a couple of times, but purchased them through dealers. I have never paid more than $400 for one of his tanks. Only having installed and used a few, I probably don't have the history to make proper judgments on the guys work.

On another note, I have heard a couple of people mention cost. Long have I visited this site without sticking my nose into anything, but thought I should start chiming in to let people know converting to a 6 is not hard or that expensive. You single largest purchase will probably be the oil tank.

I still stand by if this tank is $700 (it looks great), then I would buy a factory tank for $800. Although, I wouldn't spend more than $400 on any tank, but that is just me. Sheese! I can remember doing some of my first conversions when you could pick up a factory tank from GPR for $450!

If you can weld mild steel and like to tinker and build things, then you can make most of what you need on your own. A quick six bar is a piece of cake. The 914-6 is also not hard. The throttle linkage is also not hard. All low dollar stuff. Heck, I have numerous plywood jigs for tin, bulkhead and quick 6 bars I have made over the years. Nothing pretty, but I don't think I ever spent more than $100 making the throttle linkage, tin, cross bar or bulkhead mount and oil lines. The only item I have evern spent money on is the tank.

Exhaust you ask? Even easier. Go to ebay and pick up a set of headers for a 911 that someone decided it was not worth the trade off for heat. $50 and $10 in exhsaust pipe will stretch those out.

Cheap, just think cheap. I have even seen two differnt 914-6's with early 911 oil tanks (not bad installs at all). Just use the imagination a little. It will save you thousands.

Jeezus fucking Christ, did I hit the right buttons or what? If you read past my first sentence and you'll see "To be fair, I'm in it for the hobby and not to make a living -- that does change things, of course", conceding that if a business was the designer/builder then it makes sense to not give it away in one form or another. I also posted another response two down stating I've aluminum welded before. And I don't give a crap if a company TIGs their products instead of MIGs, for the hobbiest and their own projects that they are not selling a MIG is fine.

Here, have one on me

Sorry, OK. I didn't mean to start a big arguement over this, and I didn't mean to hack you off Toby. I was just showing off a new product, that I think is great.

I really don't think it's something that a guy could reproduce in a home shop, but that's just my opinion, it doesn't mean you can't do whatever you want!

The welding reference comes from my own personal experience. I'm a pretty fair welder when it comes to putting together and/or rustoring a 914. Not having a world of experience welding aluminum, I thought that I'd buy some aluminum wire, a bottle of argon, and away I go. Boy was I wrong. All I got was a big birds nest of welding wire in the feed mechanism. After calling around, I find out that you've really got to have a spool gun, or one heck of a good MIG welder to feed aluminum wire through a cable-hose. So I get myself a decent TIG, and think OK here we go. Let me tell you it takes lots of practice to make pretty welds with aluminum. Steel, isn't very hard, and stainless makes very pretty welds, but aluminum is a challenge. Does this mean I'm an expert? Not by any stretch.

The point I was attempting to make is that, for the money, and if you are doing a six conversion; this isn't a bad deal. And, when it comes to fabricating stuff for your conversion, most guys (me included) are probably better off picking an easier component to build. Thats all. I wasn't trying to piss you off, or come off like some sort of freakin' know-it-all. For that matter I try not to piss anyone off!

Again, sorry, if there's any chance you'll be at the Seattle dinner on the 18th (I don't know how far it is for you), the first one's on me OK?

PK

ps I checked out your alternator conversion page, and it's great work.

Can you actually use 911 style headers in a 914?
I guessed the way they are shaped you'd run into clearance problems at the firewall

cheers,

Jeroen

It's cool. I can understand the passion

I won't be able to make the Seattle meet

Not really, by the time you turn them around it becomes a mess under the 914 config. You know, that is another miss conception about 914-6's. You don't need actual heater boxes unless you drive in really cold weather. I have put a pipe that makes a very simple/clean "L" shaped bend from the tin down to about the spot the factory heated outlet is. Hook up all the hoses/heater vavles etc. and you have heat. Granted, it will not burn the hair off your toes or melt your sneakers like SSI's will for $1800, but it is certainly warm air and because you don't loop around anything, it actually blows really good. Around here in Seattle most of the days don't really get below the 30's at worst. Works great! My next set I make for like $10, I will post some pictures. they are clean and simple.

OOPS! Sorry, I think I misunderstood. The headers from a 911 you can, the heater boxes from a 911 you cannot.

Everyone got a little excited about welding aluminum, but several members have obviously developed decent skills welding steel for body repairs. Is there any reason this tank could not be made in steel? You still need to understand the internal requirements, but steel may be more realistic for the do-it-yourselfer.

I remember in the past on the bird-board a fellow hammered out a six-tank using sheet metal and I think 911 tank fittings. I don't know how it worked but he did do it.

Perry, when TIG'n the aluminum (or any type of alumimum welding) did you use different shades for your eye protection??? I've found that for different materials, special shades are needed so that you can see the "puddle" much easier.

I'm using an auto darkening hood, to be honest I don't know which shade it is. Good suggestion, thanks Mike!

PK

Mike I also haver an auto dimming hood, I adjust the amount of darkening depending on what is being welded...

Tig on alumi have it at about 9.5-10

Mig on steel is at 11

for gas welding aluminum, I have a special color lens, it filters the light so that you can see much better....it's green I think, instead of the gray/smoke color

Mike,
thats to filter out the glow from the flux so the puddle is visible.
Tig welding has no flux involved, so no need for color filters.

Umm...back then when I learned to do a bit of aluminum welding at a workshop, I was told to use the cobolt (blue) lens for aluminum welding as it's easier to see the "puddle" when welding. I used one at the workshop and was impressed, especially using thier precise gas welding torch!

I 've not been able to find one for a long time and have used the auto-darken hood with the shade of 10 dark gray, it sure was hard to see the puddle, but do-able to get the job done. Currently, I use the Miller TIG instead of gas welding the aluminum as a hobby....damn best tool to have!

j

Some thoughts:

- I agree that you should never deal with Vellios. What a pain in the ass.

- However, what's wrong with the Vellios tanks? Are they really that much heavier, I never noticed... I've used mine for about 7 years and it's been leak free. What else is it supposed to do?

- Why doesn't someone make a repro STEEL tank? To be honest, I wouldn't really care if a larger factory-style steel tank was a couple pounds heavier than the factory tank. Wouldn't steel be a lot easier to work with (cheaper), and with the proper new coatings last forever as well...

-Steve

Ya, Sheet steel could work nicely. coat it with bed liner stuff. LINEX or Tuff coat or something.

BTW. For what it's worth. try rolling the edges of the flat aluminum pieces before welding. The look is cleaner and the warpage is minumized. There are several examples of this in "Metal Fabricator's Hand Book" By Ron Fournier.

Thats one good book !!! One of my favorites.



I wonder the same thing. Properly done it should work very well.

When I tried to do my tank (before I found my factory original tank) I was going to make it from sheet steel. I made two protos, but I was not happy with them. The welding was the problem. I have only MIG and I think it should be welded with TIG or soldered with brass. Maybe someone can, but I couldn´t weld it with MIG so that I could be 100% sure that there is nothing inside that could get loose and go to the engine. There is no filter between the tank and the engine. So, I was afraid that one short piece of MIG wire inside the tank could rust in two after some time and that piece could ruin my engine.

Yes, tig it or gas weld with it mild steel filler rod. It may not be as light as sheet Aluminum but the function would be the same. If wieght is a concern go on a diet.

It's great to see someone bring a low cost conversion part to the market. Cost of all the excessory parts (mount, oil lines, exhaust, tank, throttle linkage, etc.) is what makes the 914-6 conversion out of touch for most.

The key to success with any aftermarket part is to keep cost down. A tank that fit and functions like the factory tank should be priced like the Vellio or less. If I made the part I would attempt to price it around $ 225.00 to $ 350.00. It's a tank with a screen to knock air out of the return oil. I had a book make once to a site with a cut-a-way of the 914 oil tank. I can't find the link or I would post it.

What ever happend to the plans for that Carbon Fiber oiltank?

cheers,

Jeroen

The aluminum tank looks OK...from what I can see.
The inside is more important than the outside. Aluminum would seem the best choice for fabrication.

As long as the thing fits up properly & don't leak, who cares how it looks? At some point the stock tank is gonna be NLA......cept for someone looking to retire off the thing.

The stock tank is copper plated for corrosion resistance...in and out. This is no place for amateur hour experiments. Mine ALWAYS shows moisture when I look at the cap/dipstick. God knows what kind of caustics are formed in there.