Hi folks!

I would appreciate any information on racing rubber.

I'm running the PCA-GGR TT and Auto-x series for GGR and am running Hoosier road racing slicks (23.0x9.5x15) mounted on 944 15x7 rims picked up from the wrecking yard and swap meets. I'm running the rims for $$ reasons but plan on upgrading soon. What are the pro's and con's to staying with hoosiers and buying lightweight 15' rims like panosports, or switching to a 17" or 18" tire/wheel combo? The car has a 2.7-6 in it with 911T Front End (bought from Brad!) and Bontempi's fiberglass racing fenders. I could stuff wider tires definitely.

I do like the hoosier slicks as they are wearing very well for a 2 driver car (my wife is driving as well), but I can get more choices of rubber if I move to 17" tires. The cantilevers have a different feel than the low profile 18" rubber on my 911, but they handle great non the less.

I would appreciate an education on the slick versus hoosier/kuhmo dot-r's.

I've attached a pic of the car....lot's of room under the wheel wells, even with 9.2 inches of slick on the road!

Bill Pickering ??

B

Hey B!

I'm actually starting to learn to drive the thing! It's alot of fun!

Yep...it's me Bill. I'm still waiting to hear about the SSI Heat Exchangers for my '88 Turbo....the GHL's resonance really sucks in my car....

Anyway, do you like the cantilevers or the newer dot-r's?

Bill P.

COOL.

Welcome Bill. Sorry I didnt let you know about our little corner of the web. This place got real big real quickly.

Anyway. Stick with the cantilevers. They are cheaper and will last longer than the Hoosier Radials. You could step up to the Goodyear canti' later on. Bontempi has set many a track record on 7 inch wheels and Goodyear canti's. The key is getting the wheel spacing correct.

What do the rules state for your class ?? Or tell me what class your running.

B

I had NO idea the car was a 6cyl. I thought all along the car was going to be a 4cyl car.

For some reason I thought you where headed to BP..which is why we went with the early 911 brakes.


B

I was heading for BP. But the 6 fell into my lap fully built and prepped. I'm running GM class (street modified). I have mostly free reign on suspension setups. I'm currently running 1.5" spacers in the rear and none in the front. I have adjustable swaybars all the way around. 22mm sway...23mm torsion bars...200lbs springs...bilsteins all around. Porterfield R4's all around as well.

Can I put a bigger brake setup on the 911T front? Or will I have to swap out?

BTW...the cantilevers are way cool when you cook around a corner and they snap back!

Nice looking car! Cant offer any advise on the tires tho, Sorry.

Dammit B I am shooting you down all week! The hosier slicks are faster than the current generation of Goodyear slicks. But Goodyear is catching up. Both the Hosier and Goodyear slick WILL NOT last longer than the hosier DOT tire. The slicks are good for 8 heat cycles and then go off big time after that, like 1 second per mile of track. I have real data from the past three years. And 1st and 2nd NORPAC EP 2000, 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th NORPAC 2001 championship, and 1st and 2nd 2002 NORPAC EP championship.
-Tony

There are currently no adapters to run a larger caliper on the T strut (I could remedy this fairly quickly) I still have several sets of T struts that I could do mock up on for an adapter.

OR..OR I need to get rid of a complete 930 RSR setup ready to bolt onto a 914. The rear control arms are modified for the 930 calipers and rear rotors. Very trick setup but pricey. I would consider taking what you have in a partial trade to help offset the cost if need be. Its the biggest brakes you can get under a 15 inch wheel (which is what all the vintage racers want)

Hum.. we need to get your front track widened.

Hell... I'm just happy your on the track...LOL


B

Your not shooting me down. The feedback I have is from a 6cyl 914 in the same weight range as his car. I did mispost when I said they would last longer than the Hoosiers... I meant race tires..not the DOT's. I know we can get 10-12 heat cycles out of the Hoosier DOT's.

Somebody has to keep me in check.


B

We need to get a smiley with it cracking a whip. There has to be one out there somewhere.

-Tony

BTW I just got an email from a local Fran-AM team that is looking for young local talent and wants me to do a testday. Finally a "real" racecar to drive!

STOP IT. FranAM ??

This is what Peter Nosler is running. I think the Fergusons run it also.

Am I on the right track with the class ?? Closed body Radical style cars ??


B

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the data on the heat cycles. I'll keep that in mind. I have been testing the R45 and R60 compounds to see how they wear and feel at each of the tracks we visit. I use the the R45 for AutoX only.

B,

I'll have to see what my wallet feels like...I won't need the brakes just yet, I'm still puckering up going into the turns so I know I'm breaking way too early. But I'm getting as much seat time as work and finances will allow and I get an instructor at least part of the day everytime.

How much out should I space the front? The same as the rear? (1.5")

Stick with what you have right now. I'll show up at one of the events and work with you on the car. I would like to see what it is doing and what you have to say before any changes are made to the car.

Any plans for next Monday ?? ha ha Open track day at Buttonwillow for 230$


B

B, No Fran-am is an open wheel car. The car that I will be testing is the faster 2000cc car. Carbon tub, 6sp sequential, 180hp, ~1200 lbs. It is a relativley new series in the US.

Bill, For the weight of your car you wil probably want to run the r60's. On our cars (~2300lbs) we would use the R60's, if the actual track temp (not air temp) was below 70degF we would use the R45's.

-Tony

Ahh yes... the replacement for Indy Lights....LOL

I'm going to miss you... LOL



B

No, not that level, but much more complex and current than a Formula Mazda. Well at least untill the new Pro formula mazda is released next year.

It's just a test, but we will see, you never know. They already know I have NO money to give them and they still want to give me a testday.

-tony

Humm...

How is Scott Speed doing these days ??? LOL


B

Thanks for the inputs....and the info about BW. I was there a couple weeks ago...alot of fun. I'm going to CRAB 30 this weekend and auto-x, and I'll be at Laguna Seca the following weekend for the GGR TT.

With 2 drivers and 8 heat cycles only per set, would it make sense to use a set of tires that are wearing okay for practice and save a fresh set for timed runs at the time trials until the 8 heat cycles are up?

I currently get the slicks from Hoosier heat cycled, but I do an additional track heat cycle and pull them off and store them.

B or Tony,

What about lighter weight rims in a 15x7? At least lighter than the 944 cookie cutters!

Bill P.

I personally would have a second set of wheels if not a third.

I know the weight on the Panosports..but not on the Cookie cutters. You might be surprised that they are not much heavier than the Pano's. I know a Pano 15x6 weighs the same as a 15x5.5 914 Fuch.

The look of the Panosport is tough to beat on the 914. They look good.

Yep. CRAB landed on my swap meet this year. Last year they held it a little later into the Spring.


B

I've actually got 3 sets of rims going 2 sets hav R60 compounds and 1 set has the R45. My wife is asking when the 4th set is showing up in the garage. I just tell her not to look.....I'll have to weigh the rims to see how much they are. I have one left unmounted.....

Do they make the panasport in a 5 bolt pattern?

Bill P.

You get them heatcycled??? Not the slicks I hope. The DOT tires yes. The cantilever slicks are the fastest as "stickers." But will only be good for 4-6 laps. You should then let them sit atleast 24hours and then they will give you consistent 20-30 min sessions for the next 8 heat cycles. What we would do is the following: Sticker tire was used for qualifying. Next heat cycle was the race. The 3-8 heat cycle was used for practice at the next race weekend.

-tony

B, Last I heard Scott is in europe runing the F3 series.

Yes Bill. They make the Panosports in 5 lug.

I can come up with 3-4 other wheels that are nicer looking than the Cookies.

B

Damn! And I thought I was doing a good thing getting them heat cycled by Hoosier....oh well...that's why I'm checkin in...trying to figure this all out.

More notes for the racing binder........

Use this for your avatar Bill:

I set it for the correct size.. so it wont be distorted.


B

Thanks for the avatar B, I've got it loaded....

Gud thread. Random thoughts in no particular order:

Weight......big diameter wheels & tires are heavier than the same width smaller dia combo.

Height.....up we go. A half inch in increased ride height for every inch in wheel dia....unless you take it out of the tire side wall 50 to 45 to 40....yada.

Expense....I'm a CSOB....and I like em' low and light.
I know zip about slicks.

Nice car, Bill.

I also like the looks of the Panasports but have never seen them on a 5 bolt. Anyone know where to look for them?

google? A search turned up plenty of vendors.

America's Tires or Tire Rack, I forget which one, can get Panasports....HPH sells them also



Tony, one of these?

Is that a Fran-Am car?

It sure is purdy.

I've used the Godyear cantilever slicks for nearly 4 years. So far I have only worn one out, they get so hard you can't use them it seems on a 914. I find the temps across the tire and wear is nearly perfect when I use 25# hot air pressure and this is with the soft compound. My car is a 4 cylinder and weighs 2278 pounds with me in it. The last set I bought was at Willow Springs raceway and they have only gone up in price a few $$$ over the years. Before I drove up to LA and picked up 2 sets at Carrol Shelby's warehouse and saved a bunch on shipping. Good luck

Mueller, THAT'S IT!!!! I can't wait. I will have more details next week about when/where the test day is. I am actually really excited, it's been way to long since I drove a real car and had pressure to do well.

-Tony