i am finaly done fixing the swiss cheeze on the car , it is all gone, i will be soda blasting the car within a couple of days and i will be putting the primer on myself to be able to do the most of the body work myself and i have looked into the different primer and now i am confused?? i will be using the omni line of paint from PPG and there is a couple of different primer--
the epoxy etch, but it contains chrome ( very toxic) so reject as i have a home made paint booth
the regular epoxy but apparently it is not sandable ( wtf it means)
then there is the high build 1K no epoxy ??
then the high build 2K epoxy

the car is strait and very little pitting on the outside i had to joint the quater panel half way and i did a couple of patch but they are but weld so very little bondo

what is the best price versus quality way to do??

I know i have to primer, putty, primer and then paint , which one should I use for which

thanks you very much for your help

I will be priming my GT6 this week [it's down to metal]. I can get the info for you from my paint shop where I will be doing the work. We are using an epoxy but the shop owner says he has a better product than say Dupont or PPG for less money. He does a lot of high end cars so if you want I can get you the details.

Peter

PS...be very carefull what you use to blast the car..it can screw up the metal.

AND...putty first...then primer. Medium then fine. Use sandable primers to do the final prep.

Ive read that epoxy primer is the best to use over bare metal. Do not putty before priming. Bondo and the like are best applied over primer then reprimed.

Since I don't know what way I'll be going with my car, I'll strip my car, apply POR15 to the rough spots and use a House of Kolor system. There prices don't seem too bad and I hear they're pretty good.

I'm not questioning your knowledge of the subject but why would you apply "putty" over primers? You always get better adhesion over the metal...so I have been told by a pro.

I want to know before we go any further.

head over to:

http://www.autobodystore.com/

and they have a great webboard you can search....
talk to your paint shop that you intend to buy the product from and follow their directions...

I think your going to want a catalysed primer..
I've used omni cataylized and non-catalyzed before...
Is it the MTK? can't remember what their newer version is called, but the guy that is selling you the top coat will know for sure...

brant

I do not have any knowledge of paint, just of mechanic and welding, i am just guessing

I taugh i cant apply putty right on metal?? right??? ,, some conflicting info here,,so I need to add something on the part before or after primer,,, wierd, I will read the bondo can!! and see

I too am only going by what I read and what I've seen on my car. I've heard that products such as bondo allow in moisture and promote rust. Applying body filler over primer keeps the metal sealed. My car looks worse now than before I tryed to cover up the bad parts.

I'm in the middle of putting epoxy primer on my vehicle. For me, it's the way to go.

I don't know much about paint, but I'm learning. Here are a few things I've learned:

The word "primer" means a lot of different things......

-Epoxy primer is great over metal or over old paint after you've scuffed it. It's not sandable. It doesn't absorb water (key point) and seals against water getting to the metal. It's tough and can be topcoated directly or left as a topcoat (for your underbody or interior of a race car).

-You can put body filler on top of the epoxy primer... before 7 days (depending on your epoxy primer)

-Once your body's flat or straight you should use a high-build primer and sand it down to smoth out the sanding scratches

-Then you need to seal that since both the filler and high-build sandable primer can absorb water, so you use a primer sealer

-Then you can put on the color coat, followed by a clear, if desired.

See, "primer" can mean a lot of different things......

There are many variations to this process and not all of them will work, but some will. You're also not supposed to mix paint systems.

Bondo is just a product name...there are much better products on the market [go to a paint "jobber"...not and Autozone]. When stripping the fillers from my Triumph I saw no indications of rust below the putty that was there and had to grind it out. Most good putty dries in 15 minutes or so and can be worked, shaped, etc.

I will talk to my body man and get you more details.

Alright here is the skinny:

I have used all of the following:
Marhyde High build Primer 'Yellow"
Sherwin Williams Green etching primer
House of Color Epoxy primer and sealers
SM flexible primer
Dupont Basecoats
House of Color basecoats
PPG Basecoats
Dupont Clears
House of Color Clears

My car was done in Dupont and I have always favored Dupont products they are easy to work with. The basecoats are not activated like PPG. I do not like PPG paints. House of Color Products are very nice, a little more expensive but nice and pretty easy to work with.

The Sherwin Willliams etching primer is great for Fiberglass and Bare metal. I have shot Epoxy over bare metal without much problem. You can sand little areas of the epoxy but for the most part it is not worth it. The Marhyde primer is high build and really sands well. I mean really well. There is no reason to use a "high build" primer to cover the sanding scratches. You use a high build primer to help speed the flattening process. I tend to thin the last coat of primer a litte more than recommended as it tends to lay down a little better. I would stop dry sanding at 220grit and proceed to wet sanding at 320 and finis with a 400-600 grit.

Always apply Filler products to bare metal. Never apply over primer. I have always used a polyester based filler as it doesn't grow as much as Bondo and is a little more flexible. I think the name of it is Rage but I haven't looked at the can ina few months. I also use a two part polyesterspot putty that is really good. If you apply the filler and rough sand then prime you should not have a problem with moisture. If you could be letting it sit in a moist enviroment then you might want to put a light top coat over it just to seal it for an extended time.

Good paint work is painstaking work. The beauty is in the small details. It will take you a long time to get it perfect, but the more time you spend working on it the better the finished product. I could see the color of the surrounding environment in my paint job at 50ft. Good luck with it.

After speaking to my body shop it is with out question:

"Always apply Filler products to bare metal. Never apply over primer."


If you miss a spot after priming you must go back to the metal for the best result or down the road you will have problems.

I have been using Dupont Chroma Base and Chroma Clear for about 8 years on all of my models. I find it is very easy to work with but my body shop thinks the clear products don't harden off enough. Stay away from PPG.

You don't have to stay away from PPG...
Its personal preference..

they are reputable and not a terrible product..
I just had a 3rd car sprayed with PPG on saturday...

Different shops will always have different favorites..
but I am a total amateur and have personally sprayed PPG - omni before with decent results on a BLACK car no less...!

b

Click on:

http://www.ppg.com/refinishftpsite/docs/p1..._Filler_pix.pdf

It clearly says you can apply this filler to epoxy primer as well as cleaned and sanded metal in addition to some other primers.

Are you sure about "always"?

after managing to get a hold on one of the technical expert at PPG he told me the steps to follow , he also said that they can be changed depending on the occasion but the best result short and long term
here are the steps

on bare metal apply epoxy primer ( etch or not)
then apply regular primer ( to smooth out the surface)
then bondo no explanation needed
then primer over bondo ( need to covver bondo
then paint color!!

it is the short of what he said over 15 minutes discussion

I have to disagree...the pro I have talked too stays away from fillers over any type of paint. It's no big deal to cut back down to bare metal of you miss a spot and this way you know the filler won't lift down the road. In addition I think if you do the putty work and then seal the entire thing with the epoxy you will deter any moisture from getting to the putty.

Just info from "the field"

I have done both.. over metal and over primer. I would say they are about the same. You are not really gaining adhesion by putting right over metal and then priming nor is it an advantage the other way.

There are a few important things to remember when filling / primering.

1) Use good product (read as NO BONDO). I myself prefer All Metal (made by US Chemical) for metal to metal contact as it is totally impervious to water and then a lite epoxy filler for small imperfections and to smooth after priming but before final coat I use Icing (very thin very sandable putty). I have several friends who are professional body people and they use putty over primer all the time. If it is good enough for Ferrari's then well.....

2) Always bake your filler in UV light for at least a few hours. This can be done simply by pushing the car outside to set in the sun. This helps shrink the filler now so that it does not shrink under the paint over time.

3) For primer on bare metal I like Z-Chrome by Claussen. After that any old epoxy primer will do the trick. I like high build primers so I can sand down to the imperfections instead of adding more filler. I think the key to primer is the final wet sanding, can make or break a paint job.

Just my .02 guys.... mostly it's about what your comfortable with and how much you want to put into it.

GOOD LUCK

Old school: filler on metal (can't feather it out if applied over paint) New school: better products filler over primer OK. I'd go with the acid etch first if you plan on keeping the car for many years. Fillers cure buy the hardner that you add to them. Most novice add too much hardner and it don't mix well enough and then have to deal with pits when sanding. Or mix the hell out of it and get air in it. I've never baked filler and good fillers have little air and don't shrink. Besides, if you work the metal correctly, you should have a very thin coat to finish with. I know there are guys out there that mix products but I've seen some get burnt by it too (ever seen a clear coat peel of like plastic?). If your going to use PPG I'd stay with their system and go from primer all the way to clear coat. They have a good product and lots of custom colors and paints.

Before I went to just engines i used to do full resto's for a living.

IMHO PPG epoxy is the best base, and I've tried almost all of them. If you're blasting you must cover the bare metal ASAP, as rust will start to form in short order. Then the rest is choice, Marhyde 2K works good as a sanding primer and it about the cheapest. A lot of body guys use the fiberglass bondo over welds as it seals any pinholes, not the best method, but if you have done some rough welds then it does work.

I did my bug in all PPG and it lasted 13yrs, but most of the time I used dupont colours, just because I passed their store every day.

Prep is the total key to a good job.

I've heard filler over primer also, usually over expoy primer.

Doesn't have anything to do with air.

Fillers shrink as they dry, it's a fact. All of 'em. Just some more than others.

I do agree with your comment on sticking with one system though. Certain brands do not interact well. The most specific example of this that I can think of is when GM in the late eighties - early ninties mixed different clears and base coats and had delamination problems, although they blamed the paint companies for it

Most of their problem came from Top Coating over their E-Coat and not using Primer to cut cost (which had their vendors blessings). The problem is that the E-Coat is great for rust protection but UV rays tear it up. The top coat didn't give enough UV protection and the E-Coat for lack of better word started to get "chalky". That caused the problem with the top coat delaminating and flaking off. They learned quickly that the primer coating over the E-Coat (35 microns +) protected it from the UV rays.