Hello,

since I have a spare engine I plan to build something bigger for the LE. The car is numbers matching so I will put the original engine on the shelf. I want to get around 130 - 150 HP, does the following look OK or what would you change, what else will I need:
Camshaft: 78mm - http://aapistons.com/index.php?main_page=p...;products_id=93
Rod Set: 5.4“ - http://aapistons.com/index.php?main_page=p...products_id=121
Cylinder/Pistons: 96mm - http://aapistons.com/index.php?main_page=p...;products_id=59
Carbs: 40 dual Weber
Heads: Type 4 Cylinder Heads with 48x38
Cam: Web Cam 86B/86C Type 4- http://www.vwparts.net/WC00-662.html
Lifters: T-2/914 set of 8 - http://www.vwparts.net/CB2200.html

Current plan is to order the parts in the next weeks and start to assemble everything over the winter months. I already have the Weber carbs (Italian), that's the main reason that I plan to use 40 instead of 44, will they be too small?

- Juergen

That's about $1200.00 in parts so far

Plus around $1,400 I estimate for the heads so overall I hope to stay under $3,000.

Couple things I can think of:

-cromoly pushrods (you need to set the length)
-swivel foot adjusters
-some type of header/decent exhaust system
-gasket set, bearings, sealants, etc
-bigger venturis and jets for your webers

Looks like the crank has 2.0L porsche journals and the rods have chevy journals, so be aware of that...

Have fun and take pictures!

There are many options to get 130-150 hp. If you are looking for driveability the option most overlooked is a 2056 with a Raby 9550 cam and stock fuel injection.With proper balancing,a better valvetrain kit,stock cyls bored to 96mm KB pistons you could get up to 115-120 hp and have a flatter torque curve than a carbed version pushing another 10-15 hp.the car will run smoother and be much quieter.The 2056 combo is easier to build and less expensive that the 2260 you are proposing.In either a fuel injected or carbbed version.

The 2260 will need 44 mm webbers to optimise the pontiential of the engine and you will need some cases work to clearance the rods.The parts you are sourseing are chinese made and require some tweeking to fully optimise.A stroker motor like this will end up costing in excess of $5k if you add in the cost of gaskets,bearings,machine work,balancing,a better ignition,and a valvetrain kit.I don't want to discourage you but really look at what you want out of the car bdfore you spend your money.I have a 2056 carbbed engine that makes most of it's power at higher rpm's and makes a lot of noise through the intake and carbs.Fine and cool for short runs it sounds like a hot rod.if i have to drive more than a half hr I envy the guys that have fuelinjection for the smooother acceleration and the flatter torque curve.If you plan on racing driveability will be less important but if it's gonna be a street car and your budget is $3k the 2056 will be easier on your wallet and you can use your 40 webbers or stock FI just source the proper cam.

I'd keep doing homework before you buy a single part. I see lots of things about that combination that could be further optimized, especially the "48X38 heads".

It also looks like you are shopping price. i see lots of Chinese parts there. You will get what you pay for. Do you like to do things once or twice? Three times?

Im having a 2.2L stroker built right now. I will have $6500+ in parts & labor in the motor by the time it's done. It should be finished within the next few weeks. I'll post the build sheet and dyno when I get it.

This was the first Type IV I had ever seen and didnt know enough about the motor to tell what was missing or what could be reconditioned when I got it. Other than my heads, which needed ~$1800 worth of work, none of my core parts were useable. If I ever have to do this again, I will start with a solid 100% complete running core motor and buy a kit from Jake. I think I could go the DIY route with the support that he provides.

Yeah, I would boost your budget just to be safe (realistic). I built a 2270 (that hasn't ran yet), and I have at least $5k in parts. I have over $1100 in my Dellorto 45's after purchase and rebuild from ACE alone! I agree with Brents list of CroMo pushrods, swivel feet, etc. The swivel feet are like $20 each multiply that by 8. These are the things that are easily overlooked but add up fast. I'm not sure what the type 4 main bearing market is right now, but when I bought mine they were going up like gold. I think I paid $175 from the one vendor that had them available at the time. You haven't listed an ignition, that will probably come in around $500 all said and done. AND, make sure your cam is reduced base circle! You will probably have to get it straight from WebCam.

As far as your carb size (40's), you plan to use those with heads that have 48 intake valves? I think you have a huge mismatch here. I'm using Dellorto 45's with 42 intakes. I'm no expert, and mine hasn't run so it may very well be a dud but my advice, don't build around the wrong part just because you have it.

When the valve size is bigger than the throttle plate size you have just defined the term "misconfiguration"

Ok, thanks for all the input, looks like I have to read a bit more. If I get it right the recommendation is to go with somehing like 42x36 for the heads (got the same input from a very reputable engine builder here ). I checked for the rods and as it looks it's better to go with the 5.4" Forged Chromoly H-Beam Rod VW, is this true?

I still plan to use the Dual Weber 40 I have for the moment, I can later switch to 44 if needed (at the moment spending most of the money on the 911SC Cabriolet so not too much left for a bigger Type IV).

- Juergen

Imagine you have a tube of toothpaste with a 3 inch nozzle on the end with a shape of a bellmouth where the tube side of the nozzle is normal sized and the opening is an inch... You have an area of high pressure headed to an area where the pressure will drop.... it would take forever for the toothpaste to reach the top and you would have too much despensed in the end. That is the best way I can put it....

Also with the 48mm intake valves you would want to have a set of intakes with the same sized runners. There is a lot of research I would advise you to do prior to building this.

Honestly you could probably use a lot of what is already there with the stock 2.0 and make the 130-150hp your looking for. Your $3,000 budget would be more "Doable" as well. Not that I am a spokesperson for Jake but he took a Stock 100k mile 2.0 Type IV and made it into a 2056 with most of the stock components aside from 96mm P+C and cam I believe it made somewhere around 150hp and went an additional 160k on the stock untouched crank and when it was torn down it wasnt due to faillure... It can be done without going all out. It is the small details that add up on these nice little powerplants!

Just my $.02 for what its worth...

Thomas

Just go with a easy to build 2056 and use the right cam and carb combo for 130+ hp...or stay with Djet and 120hp with a Raby 9550cam...

You are going to spend way more in the end to build a decent 2270 that runs right in the end. Heads are uber important along with cam.....

Hi Geoff,

what's the right cam/carb combo for a 2056? If I would use the dual weber 40 I have what cam would I have to use, does the one I have listed in the first post work?

- Juergen

Use either Jakes 9530 cam kit or a Web 494. Set your main vents to 30mm. 50 idle jets. 135 main jets. F11 emusion tubes. Balance everything that moves. You will love it.

Jakes cam is more expensive then the Web cam, but it comes with EVERYTHING you need. If you go with the Web cam, you MUST use the matched web lifters. If you buy all the valve train stuff that comes in the Jake kit, the web will be just as expensive.

Zach

I have my final invoices and dyno sheet from FAT Performance. 153hp and 173ft. lbs. of torque peak (corrected). Total damages were ~$6500 in parts & labor + the $1800 for the work that was done to the 2.0 heads earlier. FAT basically had to build the motor from scratch and supply all of the core parts. End-to-end, with the phone calls and changes it was maybe a 3 month process. Anyway, I can't wait to get it in the car and nail the 2->3 shift for the first time @ 4500+ RPM Thanks Greg!

Also, Thanks to fellow forumite Bruce Stone for helping with the tin and other random stuff. Bruce brought some of the stuff I needed to Greg @ FAT.

It's here!

Shuie,

What is the configuration of that motor and specifically the heads?
What stroke and what piston size.
Also, what valve size is FAT using nowadays?

Rich

Stock 2.0 head config. Stock valve sizes. 96mm pistons x 78mm crank.

I have a similar engine built by FAT 8 years ago. It's a bit smaller with a 76 crank and 96 p/c. The C/R is 8.5 : 1. On the dyno it produced 147 hp at 5,500 rpm. 44idf Webers with 130 mains and 175 air jets. It took awhile to get the carbs set up. (They didn't come off idle smoothly). After a little tweeking, they are much better. I've got about 20,000 miles on the engine. It still runs strong and I love it.
Cheers, Elliot

I have a FAT engine which was built in the mid 90's. 78 x 94, ported
039 heads, 8.5 to 1 compression, and the 442 cam with 44 webers.
Stock 914 gearing replaced the m-s-x.

FAT does 1.7 and 1.8 heads with 42x36, 1.8 heads with 44 or 48x38,
and 2.0 heads stock, modified and full race.

FAT has proven combos as well.

Nice to know there isnt just one builder out there, who also have "proven combos"