I'm building a 2056 motor, #73 webcam, 8 to 8.5:1 compression, etc. Not a race motor or anything. But I'm wondering what pistons and cylinders are recommended.

There are the Mahle sets, but I think these are dished heads for fairly low compressions (close to US stock C.R.). I've also heard that these may not be available anymore.

There are the AA japanese made set like these on e-bay. Generally I've heard good things about these and am currently leaning toward them:

AA P&C's on ebay

There are some of these hypereutectic piston sets also on e-bay. Haven't heard anything about them, but the difference in thermal expansion concerns me.

hypereutectic on ebay

There are also the Keith Black sets. Maybe similar to the hypereutectie ones listed above? I only know the name and not much else about these.

That's all that I know of. And no, don't suggest Nickies or any of those real high dollar sets. Sadly, they are simply not in my price range!

Thanks!
Demick

The quality of the cylinders on those aren't very good. They are made in China and are said to have piston to cylinder slap brand new.

The better way to go is to have your German cylinders machined to 96mm and use a set of KB pistons.

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewprodu...EPS0011&cartid=

I thought someone was selling Keith Blacks with bored out German cylinders? Or was I just dreaming?

Demick, are running FI?

If so I would like to hear what mods you find are needed during your rebuild and tuning.

I will be sending my P&C to jake for fitting this winter. Are you going through the engine 100% or are you leaving the crank alone and replacing the cam only (internally speeking)?

Just curious.

what about these guys? EBS racing
I have never delt with them... has anybody?
Does Jake have a P&C kit??

EBS Racing is a good dependable parts haus. They are actually dealers for Nickies and suppliers for all my custom 911 pistons, since they typically have what I need waiting on the shelf ready to go. I can't say from whom they get their stock p/c's from, but I do recommend that you just cryo & overbore your existing cylinders, then match hone to a set of KBs. If you want JEs, Jake or I can provide you with a set that will work really nice.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

The 96mm sets that EBS racing lists are the AA sets. I spoke with a guy there who said that they are not quite up to the quality of the OEM sets, but they still recommend them (for the price) and sell lots of kits and see no issues.

My existing cylinders are already 96mm Mahle cylinders. Obviously can't rebore these to 96mm. Can I just re-hone these and use them again? Is it really as simple as that?

Kerry - yes I am going to run the d-jet F.I. I'm going through the whole engine. No real mods besides what I have already listed. F.I. will have to be tweaked (but it was already tweaked to start with).

Demick

I have some sets to sell, but mine are not cheap as we rebore oem cylinders, correctly true each end and then match the pistons to them(skirt clearance wise)
When I have extras I sell them for 450.00 per set and you MUST have 93/94mm cylinders as cores that are rebuildable.

Junk cylinders make for high oil temps, horrendous blow by compression and head leaks in short order.

ALL the aftermarket cast iron cylinders suck...

If you have older 96s thay might be NPR.. if so reuse these and get new rings they use the same rings as a 2.3Liter ford engine and I have them..

Demick:

What did you decide to go with?

I didn't.

There seem to be no good options. I have no 94mm cylinders to re-bore. I'm hesitant to re-use my 96's. And it seems nobody sells quality 96mm p&c's.

I'm almost ready to buy some Mahle Euro 94's and go with the stock disp.

I have been looking around also, and I agree, there seems to be no good options, at least if what everyone says about the aftermarket Jap kits is true. What does George out at AutoAtlanta recommend?

What about these?

96mm Type 4 Piston and Cylinder Sets

Price: $ Varies according to options
Part #: EPS0007
These SLIP IN to all 1800 and 2000cc engines for a nice increase in displacement. VERY reliable. Choose forged or cast pistons, and 22 or 24mm wrist pin size. We now supply these kits with top quality cylinders (stock cylinders, bored and machined in matched sets) because the quality of the "budget" ones sucked.
It is important to note that we only carry kits for the 1.8 and 2.0L engines, the 1.7 kits are junk. You can use the 96s for a 1800cc engine on your 1.7L engine IF you bore the heads out to the larger 1.8/2.0L size. 1.7s use a smaller head opening then the 1.8/2.0 engines, though the case hole is the same. As a result, the cylinder is TOO THIN on the top of the 1.7s to reliably install 96s. If you go to 96s on a 1.7L, we recommend you either use 1.8/2.0 heads, or bore your 1700 heads to the 1.8/2.0L size.


96 mm P & C

I had thought this would be a good option. So I e-mailed their tech support (they have no phone tech support). Here was my question:

> Hello
>
> I am interested in your Type4 96mm big bore piston and cylinder kit. From what I can gather this
> uses OEM cylinders (Mahle) and bores them out to 96mm. I also assume that you are supplying KB
> pistons if cast pistons are selected. Is this all correct?
>
>What is the nominal compression ratio using this setup?
>
> What all is included in the kit?


This was their response:

>the cylinders are not OEM, which is why we recommend that you have your
>original cylinders bored out by RIMCO. The kit includes pistons, rings,
>pins, and clips


Not too helpful is it. Sounds like they don't even recommend their own kit.

Demick

OEM used 94 cores are readily available, you just have to look around (HPH and others).

Must have been aircooled.net.... Atleast John knows the aftermarket cylinders are lousy-

One day someone will listen to me!

I am not taking any chances this time. My engine has 6,000 miles on it and it smokes like a crop duster. The engine builder said the original cylinders were within spec so he honed them & installed new rings.

I just put a check in the mail to Jake.

what??? you've got a bunch of options...be cheap and go with the import parts-Japanese pistons/rings w/Taiwan made cylinders (which I have used and they do work, you just have to inspect them carefully, which one should do with any part regardless of price) or go with what Jake and aircooled.net does, re-use factory 1.8/2.0 cylinders and go with new pistons or buy brand new OEM parts (if available)

I believe the saying pay now or pay later applies to these parts.......

to me it seems people want to pay next to nothing to get OEM quality or better, and it's not going to happen...period

Not trying to pay next to nothing. Just having a hard time swallowing the idea of paying more now for used parts than the quality new ones did when they were available just a couple of years ago.

P&C's have always been throw-away items during a rebuild. So the idea that the good quality option now involves buying these previously worthless parts that were destined for the dumpster and then having them machined for my use seems a little crazy. But maybe that's just a hurdle I've got to get over in my own mind.

Demick

I had to read your response a few times to get it right, hahahahaha


yea, it does seem odd that "best" option is paying for something that "used" to be thrown away in the past.....I guess rebuilding these motors are sorta like a wedding: "Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue"

old=cylinders
new=pistons
borrowed=advice/tools
blue=the owner after paying for all of this, LOL

Ok, but since most engines have been rebuilt before, how do you know that your existing cylinders are original and useable and not aftermarket?

Those "Used" cylinder hve something that NONE of the new ones do- The correct cast iron material for proper expansion!

I'll take a 30 year old, German part after its been ran over by a Bulldozer and rebuilt- over new junk that has no qualioty control and made in some 3rd world country for a nickel an hour!

Its easy to see OEM cylinders, they have an 029 or 039 part number near the base. I have literally put my name on over a thousand engines with OEM bored cylinders- please don't argue with me that anything beats them after they are properly set up for the 96mm bore.

Even the older aftermarket OEM replacement cylinders are better than the new junk that graces our market today! Hell they come out of the box with cracks, tapers, incorrect roughness averages and inconsistent skirt clearances.

Lose a few thousand dollars because of junk parts, and see how you like it.

keep in mind that 80% of what we build runs a 96mm bore, I know those cylinders like the veins on my own penis!

Where else are you going to get advice like that?

Not many places!! I figured that was the ultimate way of expressing myself! LOL

Shouldn't it be fairly easy (and cheap) to find some 1.8L core cylinders?

Yes, just ensure they have not had severe head leakage, else the surfaces will need to be excessively machined and deemed not usable for a good project..

This is why I think you need your own reality show on Discovery, Jake. I think it would be a big hit. You can't get writers to make up dialogue like that.

Monster Garage
Monster Casino
Monster Type IV <-------- Would be a hit!

Don't laugh! The guys that do my videos have been asked to help with a series next year that will have plenty of VW related info- including...

Oh No!...It's " American Teener" a new Discovery series! Or Jake's "Monster Aircooled Technology"! WOW!!!

So, is there anything wrong with getting a new set of Mahle OEMs? Or are they made poorly now as well?

Not as good as they used to be, just make sure they are balanced. I have seen them 20 + grams out per set!

where would one get their stuff balanced and clearanced?

Does anyone know if the Mahle P/Cs are still made in the Fatherland (Germany)?

Nope, made in Brazil..

I clearance and balance stuff pretty much all day long and have the best equipment in the industry for doing such..

Are there issues with overheating or durability with the stock 2.0 cylinders machined out to accept 96mm pistons? Does anyone know if the stock valves are used on a 78 crank stroker? Am I correct that the heads don't need to be machined out to accept the 96mm pistons.

Most of the times we see engine temp reductions when going to a 96mm piston from a 94mm....

The OD of the 96 is the same as a 94 at the head and at thecase registers.. They slide right in.

As for stroking:

The stock valves work okay, depending on the camshaft that you choose. Its all in the cam and the rest of the combination....

OK. Jake is setting me up with a set of 96mm pistons/cylinders. Thanks Jake!!

Demick

I have 2 more of my sets made up..... anybody else want any??

The cost ?

Me too..What is the cost

pin size ?

Dave,

I sold Anthony S. a 2.0 motor last year (dirt cheap) which included used factory pistons and cylinders...maybe he'd be willing to sell them????

22 or 24mm pins.. Stroker or stock pin heights!

425.00+shipping and I MUST have your old cores and they must be OEM.. Either 93 or 94mm bore size is okay.

how do I know if they are oem cylinders?

Seanery, Look earlier in the post, top of page two and you will get your answer.



Jake, are the piston already loaded in the cylinders and are they the KB you normaly use. I have a stock never touched 2.0 with 80K just pulled from a car due to rusted body. I noticed that the bottom of the cylinder, on the fins are rusty. Is this typical, and are these what u consider useable. I can send pics if need be.

I need pics...

Massivetype4@aircooledtechnology.com

This is the best I can do until i break the engine down. I just pulled it last weekend and just haven't had any time.