My son, almost 5 years old, occasionally gets to ride in my 914.
When he does, I install his Britax Frontier car seat. Obviously, there's no LATCH system, so I install it using the original 3-point (lap/shoulder) belts in my '74, with a locking clip to keep it tight. I also connect the top buckle on the car seat directly to the seat belt anchor on the inside of the targa bar, to keep the seat from tilting forward under braking (or in a crash).
Hopefully, I'll be driving with my son down to Scotty's shop this Saturday. That means about 2 hours each way on interstates, far longer than his previous rides and at highway speeds.
The Britax Frontier seat can convert to use it as a booster by removing the harness straps. My son is within the limits to use it as a booster (over 42", over 4 years old, and over 40lb).
So here's my question: What is safer, installing the seat with the seatbelt & a locking clip and using the harness, or removing the harness and just using the seat as a booster?
The harness is safer in general, but I'm not so comfortable with the jury-rigged nature of the install using a locking clip. At least as a booster, both the seat and the seat belt would be serving the purpose they were designed for.
To all the non-parents out there, I'm sure this is pretty Greek. But I need to reassure the wifee that I'm keeping our son as safe as possible...
Full Version: Fitting a child seat
booster seat and stock seatbelt with no locking clip so you can get him out if anything happens.
Drive super defensive.
Rich
Drive super defensive.
Rich
IMO the car seat and clip is safer.
Both my kids only use boosters when they have to in any car, even though they are old enough to use them full time. Side protection ect is a big advantage.
I would trust the full lock position of the locking clip before I would trust the seat belt by itself to "lock up" if needed with a light weight passenger.
Both my kids only use boosters when they have to in any car, even though they are old enough to use them full time. Side protection ect is a big advantage.
I would trust the full lock position of the locking clip before I would trust the seat belt by itself to "lock up" if needed with a light weight passenger.
QUOTE(Ferg @ Sep 26 2011, 02:14 PM) 
IMO the car seat and clip is safer.
Both my kids only use boosters when they have to in any car, even though they are old enough to use them full time. Side protection ect is a big advantage.
I would trust the full lock position of the locking clip before I would trust the seat belt by itself to "lock up" if needed with a light weight passenger.
I've taken my daughters out a couple times each. My older one is big enough for booster, but we felt best about the full carseat over the booster. I agree, locked in with clip seemed better than trusting inertia lock, plus better side protection.
(As you can see in my avatar, when the 5 year old is joy riding, she doesn't make the 3 year old wear her seat belt!
)
Seat. I bet it would be easy to remove the passenger seat and make a platform for the child seat.....I know I will when the time comes 
The kid must fit in the seat in order to use it. The harness must be just above the shoulders.
Well anchored seat should be better. In case of impact, the seat harness spreads the pressure over more body area, preventing cuts.
The seat is also leaned backwards so part of the forces in the impact will go to the butt, reducing the body tenancy to tilt forward.
I would be more worried about my kid playing around Scotty
And don't forget to turn off the air-bag!
Well anchored seat should be better. In case of impact, the seat harness spreads the pressure over more body area, preventing cuts.
The seat is also leaned backwards so part of the forces in the impact will go to the butt, reducing the body tenancy to tilt forward.
I would be more worried about my kid playing around Scotty
And don't forget to turn off the air-bag!
I welded "eye" hooks to the seatbelt bolts so I could use the latch system for my son. for me it works great. I don't trust the seatbelts in my 72.
Car seat. The harness will restrain him MUCH better in the hopefully-never-ever-gonna-happen event of a collision. In addition the car seat provides significantly better protection in side impact situations. The car seat, being much better fitting, will help distribute the impact load as well.
That being said, I would say that the car seat, while also being safer, is much more likely to be more comfortable as well.
Our two girls both ride in Recaro's... And while it does the racer-geek in me proud to see my kids in Recaro seats, my research found them to not only be superior in protection, but fit and comfort as well. The kids love their seats.
I have harness mounts in my car that latch anchors could connect to as well.
And yes, I'd trust a locked seat belt over the 40 year-old factory inertia reel any day.
booster (6 year old) and car seat (2-1/2 year old)
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
-Josh2
That being said, I would say that the car seat, while also being safer, is much more likely to be more comfortable as well.
Our two girls both ride in Recaro's... And while it does the racer-geek in me proud to see my kids in Recaro seats, my research found them to not only be superior in protection, but fit and comfort as well. The kids love their seats.
I have harness mounts in my car that latch anchors could connect to as well.
And yes, I'd trust a locked seat belt over the 40 year-old factory inertia reel any day.
booster (6 year old) and car seat (2-1/2 year old)
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
-Josh2
Are your belts original?
We often forget that no part of this car was designed to last this long. I will be replacing my seatbelts soon. As long as I have to have them, they might as well work.
We often forget that no part of this car was designed to last this long. I will be replacing my seatbelts soon. As long as I have to have them, they might as well work.
If vehicles built in the 70s were unsafe the majority of us would not be alive to make these posts today..
If only my girlfriends parents understood that Jake...
You need to check the limits of the harness in your car seat. If they are only designed for a 40# or less rider, you have your answer. I have the recaro seats in the second pic above, both my kids have riden in my 930 , one with the booster seat, the other in the harness, either way the seat depends on the seatbelt to hold it in. If the belt is going to fail it's going to fail either way. Check to see what fits the best, harness works best if you can get the seat strapped to the car as tight as possible, if you can't getit nice and snug you're asking for trouble.
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 26 2011, 03:50 PM)
If vehicles built in the 70s were unsafe the majority of us would not be alive to make these posts today..
Cars are not unsafe. Bad drivers make them unsafe.
For those who are interested...
My wife appreciated the input from the 914 community, but still wanted me to seek "professional" advice. There's a police officer in the district where my wife teaches, and he's known for being the force's expert on child seat safety - runs their inspection program, etc.
I found his email address and sent him the question. Below is his reply. Just sharing in case others are interested.
My wife appreciated the input from the 914 community, but still wanted me to seek "professional" advice. There's a police officer in the district where my wife teaches, and he's known for being the force's expert on child seat safety - runs their inspection program, etc.
I found his email address and sent him the question. Below is his reply. Just sharing in case others are interested.
QUOTE
Mr. Blumenthal:
Wow, great questions. First, thanks for keeping a 914 on the road. And your son will remember and thank you for the rides in it. My dad had an MGA (yes, that’s how old I am.)
Second, generally, a child restraint with a full, integrated 5-point harness would be safer than a booster (assuming correct installation and appropriateness of the restraint for the child’s size and weight [kids outgrow restraints both by exceeding the listed weight or getting too tall to where their shoulders are higher than the highest set of harness slots or their ears are above the upper rim of the restraint back – unlikely with the Frontier]). A 5-point harness simply wraps tighter around the kid’s body, and across more of the body than a three-point vehicle seat belt, so crash forces are spread across a greater area of the trunk. Also, a 5-point restraint harness limits sideways movement more than a lap-shoulder belt – better protection in side impacts.
But a booster is still an appropriate restraint for an older child the size of your son. So, if you want to use a booster, one more thing to consider. Because a high-backed booster like the Frontier is essentially another chair he is sitting on, atop the existing vehicle seat, the booster itself is positioning him a little closer to the dashboard, windshield and A-pillar than if he were sitting in a backless booster. They’re cheap and simple. $15-20 for a little backless booster that can stay in a trunk when not used (maybe not a 914 trunk) but still a perfectly safe device – again, if it is used correctly and does three things: places the kid’s hips high enough that the lap belt hugs down around the hip bones instead of sitting up at belly level; positions the torso and shoulders so the shoulder belt drapes across the front of the chest and into the V of the neck-shoulders comfortably (if uncomfortable, the kids – and sometimes adults – pull the belt behind their back or under the arm); and lets the kid’s knees bend comfortably and hang down so they don’t scoot forward and down in the vehicle seat, which ruins the positions of the lap and shoulder belts.
I’m sorry the answer is long, but little is simple in this area. Let me know if I can answer any other questions.
Wow, great questions. First, thanks for keeping a 914 on the road. And your son will remember and thank you for the rides in it. My dad had an MGA (yes, that’s how old I am.)
Second, generally, a child restraint with a full, integrated 5-point harness would be safer than a booster (assuming correct installation and appropriateness of the restraint for the child’s size and weight [kids outgrow restraints both by exceeding the listed weight or getting too tall to where their shoulders are higher than the highest set of harness slots or their ears are above the upper rim of the restraint back – unlikely with the Frontier]). A 5-point harness simply wraps tighter around the kid’s body, and across more of the body than a three-point vehicle seat belt, so crash forces are spread across a greater area of the trunk. Also, a 5-point restraint harness limits sideways movement more than a lap-shoulder belt – better protection in side impacts.
But a booster is still an appropriate restraint for an older child the size of your son. So, if you want to use a booster, one more thing to consider. Because a high-backed booster like the Frontier is essentially another chair he is sitting on, atop the existing vehicle seat, the booster itself is positioning him a little closer to the dashboard, windshield and A-pillar than if he were sitting in a backless booster. They’re cheap and simple. $15-20 for a little backless booster that can stay in a trunk when not used (maybe not a 914 trunk) but still a perfectly safe device – again, if it is used correctly and does three things: places the kid’s hips high enough that the lap belt hugs down around the hip bones instead of sitting up at belly level; positions the torso and shoulders so the shoulder belt drapes across the front of the chest and into the V of the neck-shoulders comfortably (if uncomfortable, the kids – and sometimes adults – pull the belt behind their back or under the arm); and lets the kid’s knees bend comfortably and hang down so they don’t scoot forward and down in the vehicle seat, which ruins the positions of the lap and shoulder belts.
I’m sorry the answer is long, but little is simple in this area. Let me know if I can answer any other questions.
QUOTE(johannes @ Sep 27 2011, 02:30 AM)
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 26 2011, 03:50 PM)
If vehicles built in the 70s were unsafe the majority of us would not be alive to make these posts today..
Cars are not unsafe. Bad drivers make them unsafe.
That thinking is not real popular among the folks in our country. It evokes images of "personal responsibility", which is decidedly out of fashion here ...............
The Cap'n
QUOTE(johannes @ Sep 27 2011, 05:30 AM)
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 26 2011, 03:50 PM)
If vehicles built in the 70s were unsafe the majority of us would not be alive to make these posts today..
Cars are not unsafe. Bad drivers make them unsafe.
I agree it's the drivers, but it is worth noting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMK1WZjP7g
There may not be significantly fewer accidents as a result of automotive technology alone, but you are more likely to survive those accidents.
When your number is called it doesn't matter if you are flying in the Space Shuttle or a Model T... or a 2012 Volvo.
I drove a 68 VW Double Cab in this morning.. It has 220HP of MassIVe power and I wasn't afraid.
I drove a 68 VW Double Cab in this morning.. It has 220HP of MassIVe power and I wasn't afraid.
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 26 2011, 04:50 PM)
If vehicles built in the 70s were unsafe the majority of us would not be alive to make these posts today..
Thank you Jake! sometimes I think we all worry a little too much. Evolution works for a reason
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 27 2011, 01:29 PM)
I drove a 68 VW Double Cab in this morning.. It has 220HP of MassIVe power and I wasn't afraid.
I'm afraid......that we're gonna need some pics/video of that
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 27 2011, 10:29 AM)
I drove a 68 VW Double Cab in this morning.. It has 220HP of MassIVe power and I wasn't afraid.
Everyone else on the road was though...
-Josh2
My question is what do you do with your other cars? Why treat the 914 different in respect to kid seats?
I think the officer had a level-headed response.
BTW, our kids are teens and driving now, but laws kept changing when they were young and we had to purchase "new & improved" seats - economic stimulus I guess. Now I hear they are recommending boosters for kids up to 4 ft tall. I'm sure that will become law at some point. Where will it end?
I think the officer had a level-headed response.
BTW, our kids are teens and driving now, but laws kept changing when they were young and we had to purchase "new & improved" seats - economic stimulus I guess. Now I hear they are recommending boosters for kids up to 4 ft tall. I'm sure that will become law at some point. Where will it end?
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