Ron, love you, and think your poll on the tech forum sucks. Asking "How far would you drive to have exclusive 914 club track use for one day?" would probably get a far different response. I know you and toast want to do an AX and and have it closer to your homes, so find it and we will come.

But it does show where the power comes from in the club. The bay area guys ARE the club, and will dictate what we can or can't do anyway; venue, sponsors, even using the 914world.com name. I was going to post this as a response on the main forum, but will keep it here. None of the Bay area 'leaders' have contributed to the planning, or even visited the forum as far as I know.

I will not use my credit card for deposits to secure the track or accomodations and will not proceed until we all agree AND get admin's approval on how, when, and where to hold this event.

Even if all this happens, I will not sign the application for track or AX rental. The unlimited liability exposure is too scary. And personally, I would rather not have track or AX at all, just a fun few days. I get in plenty of track time, and after running on the track AX is a lot less satisfying.

Here's the unposted post:

Where are we going here? Brad and Dave, please visit the 2005 planning forum.

1] I can't easily put on an AX because of insurance issues
2] Track vs AX. I don't remember anyone breaking their car at Laguna Seca, a much faster track than Streets of Willow.
3] Willow would not be a timed event, just a bit of sporty driving without CHP or oncoming (hopefully) cars.
4] As Slits says, 3 groups of novice/touring, amateur, and racer boys have the track to themselves.
5] Delete word 'Compete'. This is for fun.
6] IMHO you can do far more damage to your car in timed AX than untimed open track driving.
7] In my not so humble opinion, AX is like throwing a temper tantrum in a closet. Open track is like dancing in the moonlight.

I agree with Howard. And I also think that, as bus driver, it's his responsibility to start threads/polls like the one Ron started. I almost deleted the poll when posted, but that's not my place.

If Howard is driving the bus the others must let him. No one else jumped in and volunteered to drive, but I think there were some that wanted to. Please respect Howard and allow him to do the job before him.


Howard,
I've asked Brad to stick his head in here, but to the best of my knowledge he hasn't done it yet.

Sean, thanks for your support, but no hard feelings about the poll. Ron and I are Siamese twins separated at birth. I believe we have all the input needed to know what the membership wants, but whatever.

What I am looking for is, Who is running this effin' show? Brad who? Andy who? Brad doesn't post his email address, and Andy says he had nothing to do with 2004.

Let's say SoCal finally agrees on a plan. Do we bounce it off any one person? Does anyone at 914club have veto rights? Wasn't there something before about not contacting sponsors? Any other no no's ?

As far as sponsors goes, I know brad has been working on some sort of master plan. Jeff ran the show for '04, but he was given some direction, which you have not. I really wish Brad would show up here to do that. The best way to get a hold of him is to call HPH. I gave up on email and that's the only way I contact him now.

I have hessitated to post this several times. But.......
I dont see that we need to get approval or go-aheads from anyone. We Volenteered to plan and orgainize the WCC 2005. That means We should be able to make the decisions about it.

Now, if anyone disagrees with what is being planned, then there advice and opinions will be greatly accepted.
Also, any leads for sponserships, and any ideas and suggestions will also be welcomed.

But as far as getting appovals, I believe they would be content with us making the arrangement. I havent seen any of them (except bolsby and seanery) here helping out or disagreeing so far. So........
let's have at it! Do it the So. Cal. Way! (whatever that may be)

Oh, and Howard, Slits and I are still working on it.

Toast, that is a good point, but alot of the people who are "nonposters" on the boards, take drastically different oppinions.
But I do agree with you that they'll do what we say.
Slave drivers HA

(didnt have much to say... but I wanted to post here.. Thanks Howard, I will try to help as much as I can)

Andrew

Don't go deleting shit, Batman. Read what I wrote. Do you want to sign for track, AX, whatever, wondering if 'they' won't like what we're doing? We can't even agree.

Hotel is available last weekend of April. Streets of Willow available first Monday in May. Call and Book???

I had to work today so I missed the poll. Apparently Slits deleted it because I don't see it. As much as I don't like going around in circles there's no need to start panicking. We have 10 months so if we kick it around for another week or two there's really no harm. I agree with Toast, we should be able to make our own decisions on what the event will be and only make changes if someone has strong objections to the direction we're taking. I don't think that will happen as I feel this will shape up into a pretty good weekend.
If we try to do an AX we have to do it with PCA and that would make us at their mercy on a lot of things.
I think the whole process will move along better if we decide on the track day at Willow. The main stumbling block is the drive between Willow and Oxnard. Since there are no tracks in nice beach areas we're going to have to accept this and do the best we can. Any one that wants to have their day at the track will make the drive and I feel pretty confident there are going to be plenty of cars there.
Howard, if there's a liability issue, then several of us may need to have a sit down and discuss it to see what we can work out. The POC has every entrant sign a release and waiver of liability. There's really no reason we couldn't start an LLC to put on the track event. It would cost less than $500 and take care of the issue.

I wanted to respond to Rick Ollah but I see all the other threads are closed so I'll do it here. Rick, you're not butting in. I value your opinion, we need to know that the event we're planning will draw the members that have to make a long trip. So hang around and let us know if we're hot or cold.

i was not actively involved in any of the WCC '04 planning.

we did have a initial discussion about the overall plan (how many days, what venues and in what order)
but then it was up to a few (bowlsby in particular) to make it all happen.
brad might have chimed in here and there, but he wasn't the *driving force* behind WCC '04 ...

if you guys don't like AX, then don't do it.
if you like a track day, then do it.
if you like more social events, by all means, do it.

as for the finances, i do know that jeff did fork out some of his own money upfront to make reservations etc.
he was also the focal point for registrations and handling those $$$.

as for the sponsors, i'm sure brad has a list of people that are interested, but i don't see any reason why you guys should not be able to persue potential sponsors yourself.

yes, WCC '04 was under the "914 Club" umbrella, but because we are no real club,
it came down to individual dedicated members to make things happen.

i'm sorry if it seems that "the club" has neglected you guys, but simply because i (and others) have admin status here does not mean that we played a major role in the last WCC ...

please let me know if i can help with anything,
Andy

Ok. Let me read through this quickly and respond.


B

I own all 3 .com/net/.org

Just thought I would let you know.


B

Seems to me (just another voice in the crowd) there has been too much pandering to the masses. I think it would go much more smoothly for the planners if they just made all the decision and told everyone else what's going to happen. The only constant is that everyone just wants to get together and meet people and look at cars. As long as you have A.) cars and B.) people the event will be a success.

If you're going to make a three day event (or 4 or whatever) you have to think up things for people to do to fill their time. People could probably hang out and talk for three days straight, but it'd be nice if there were things to do. For example:

* Autocross.
* Fun run.
* 914 olympics with events like fastest engine removal.
* Peoples Choice awards judging.
* Tech sessions.
* Timed rally.

The point is ALL THESE THIGNS ARE GOOD FUN! Pick which ones are reasonable for you to plan out. If you can't easily work out a autocross/race then pick something else. If you spend more time planning the things that will work easily it'll come off much better than spending time planning the things that won't work easily. It's not supposed to be "same event, different year".

Don't get too focused on trying to poll the public and fit everyone's needs. Do what you can do and it will be great!

Thanks for all the advice, admin. I believe we are on the same wave length, but Brad, since you 'own' 914world.com, may we use that name as the "host" of this event?
Do I have permission to have the applicants make checks payable to me or my designee?

Mark, the polls were just to hear what the folks wanted. We know now. If we build it, they will come, but want to make sure 'the club' agrees with our plan.
Andy, thanks for checking in. We don't need to contact the same sponsors, so we will not approach any of the 2004 sponsors.
Andy, I closed the other polls so all posts would go here at this time. Slits poll invited all the ax vs track discussions we had done before and he pulled it. Same stoopid questions as before.

Hopefully, everyone will check in in the next few days, but if no further suggestions, will proceed with plan A as follows:

I can't find anyplace other than Willow that has the whole package including insurance. If you or anyone knows, please tell me now, but if not, you're right, we should book ASAP.

I'm not sold on that hotel. If anyone else has another selection within 100 mile of Willow, let me know that, too. In the polls, more rural areas close to curvy roads were favored. Your maps (and CD) are great idea.

We need more ideas for what we do with people that have track only cars during the 'resort' time, and finalize the Palmcaster thing. If no other suggestions will go with slits' agenda as shown..

Quote Slits:
Since the track is only really available to us on a Friday or Monday, pick the day. Friday is probably not logical as I doubt anyone coming from a distance is going to go directly to the track and start slogging, unless they stay in Palmcaster Thursday night.

Monday would be the most logical. This would allow for Saturday and Sunday for the social events - tours, parties, etc.


WCC2005 could start Saturday morning with brkfst, then a rally/twisty road for the day, ending in a beach or lawn party.

Sunday, we could all go to the Church of Stuttgart and stand around admiring 30 year old technology. A lax day to cure any hangovers and later do the other things that are local. Possibility of a low key catered dinner for a social event or night rally so everyone can get lost and tech session for those going to Willow.

The track day can start at 10 AM and end at 3 pm. You have indicated that 20 cars at a time can be on the track. It would seem that 5 hours is enough to bust your car. That would make the day 9 hours long, including the roundtrip trek from Oxnard to Rosamond or like you said Howard, just turn everyone loose from the track. Those that don't want to play could go home on Sunday or drop by the track on Monday on their way home.

One of my only main suggestions is taking people out of there comfort zone.. Putting people into groups. Groups at random or groups picked. That way people will be forced to make new friends, which they will.

Put them in the group, give them some time to introduce themselfs, and talk about there car. Then send them off in there groups for a couple mile drive with set stopping points.. Send them out 10 mins appart or something

"We dont need no stinking Groups."
I actually met many people at WCC 04. But im a sociallite like that.

Well Howard, I think Slits is out. As much as I would like to try to plan something in the IE, I dont have the contacts. I guess I could find some, but it is getting kinda late.
I agree with Rick about trying to find a more central location to Willow. Not trying to push IE again, but I will use it as an example. IE is 45 min. from beach, 45 min. from mountains, 45 minutes from desert......well, you get the drift. We could try to find an suitable area like that.

We should be able to find twisty roads and other entertainment just about anywhere. Somewhere more inland, we could drive to the beach for the beach party and be closer to Willow.

Anyway, hotel should be least of our worries at this point. I found a website that listed several twisty surface street roads in So. Cal. When I find it again, I will post it.

Rich, Rick, Alien.......(lol) you will always be welcome here. So but back in. Just because your at a distance doesnt mean you couldn't be an important contributor.

My 2 cents -

I was on the 2004 WCC planning committee. None of the Club administrators (except Jeroen and Seanery) were actively involved. Their role was as helpers not administrators. I assume the others read the planning threads from time to time, but Jeff was the one who really made things happen. I'm sure someone would have stepped in if we had gotten to far off track, but we were left to our own abilites to plan the WCC. As 'bus driver' you (Howard) are now left with the same responsibilites as Jeff. It is your job to make this thing happen.

Polls are of limited use. Most people don't vote. We have some great options. A day at the track (Monday) and a party on the beach sound fantastic. Anything else we can add to fill in the rest of the weekend will be a bonus. You are correct. The WCC is more about the people (and the cars) than what we do. Some sort of a framework and fun activities are just a background. Gather the best info. you can. Let everyone speak their opinion. At times last year the discussions became heated, but we were all striving for the same goal in our own way (the best WCC possible). Nobody harbored any resentments. It was team work and solid learership that made it possible. We pulled it off last year in only a few weeks. This year we have many months for it all to come together. We can do it!

I say pick a date. Book the track. The details will fall into place.

The Riverside PCA is a fun bunch. In the past they have come to Vegas for events. We would rent the Mini Grand Prix track for a few hours on Saturday and have a competition with them before our Charity Auto-X on Sunday.

I of course have to side with Howard (my fearless leader) and say lets move forward and book everything and let the rest fall in to place. We can come up with a lot of activities to do besides the track events. I will work the track and I may even run on the track, but I cannot afford to damage my car in racing it hard. An AX event in my opinion is much harder on the car than an open track. It would be great to just drive it fast without having to worry about a ticket or crashing in to an oncoming car. Back in the late 80's there was a saying, JFDI. You can guess what it means. I am behind you Howard all the way. Whatever you need of me, count on it. You got my number.

Thanks everyone that made comments on my post. When I butt in it's with the best of intension. Any time I become annoying let me know. I have thick skin.

One more word to reinforce Markd's and Sir Andy's comments. The 04 event was going much the same way with poles and attempting to assemble an event that would be everything to everyone. In the end Jeff took charge and had the "build it and they will come" additude. the admin's had no more say than any other member of this non club. Were all in this together. Or not..

To Me, in the end it was far more about the people than the events anyway. So book what you can plan and don't worry about the club that doesn't really exist... wink wink...

P.S. I am really looking forward to meeting up with you all again. Lets do this thing!

Whooaaaa Batman... I just read this thread
Chill out guys/gals.

There are no absolute powers within 914world.com
That's what makes it good. We're not a real club, so, no boss and no politics

I'll just shoot off some pointers here about what happened last year

Venue / location
The 2004 event was planned around the AX. Because that was the hardest thing to get done.
So what ever the "big" event of the 2005 WCC is gonna be, plan the rest around that
I can't comment much on any location anywhere, because I'm far from local but remember that in 2004, the AX was quite a bit away from the Pruneyard Inn, and I didn't hear anybody complain about it...
Actually, none of the events were really close to the Pruneyard Inn.

Track or AX?
Well, basically, it's your party so you decide
For those sceptical, just remember that a trackday is NOT racing. It's driving fast under controled conditions.
Since it is OUR track day, we can decide how "wild" it's gonna be, by setting rules for overtaking, setting up classes based upon experience, etc. etc.
I can't comment on liability issues, but since Howard is in the insurance business, I think he can judge that best anyway.
Please do remember that who ever books the track (or what ever) will be financially responsible, so if 5 people show up when you thought there'd be at least 50, you are fucked. That's one of the drawbacks of not being a real club

Finances
Have a chat with Jeff Bowlsby. He took care of them in 2004.
He can give you a good idea about what to expect (specially on those expenses that you don't think of)

Sponsorship
I lured in most of the sponsors last year.
I started with the 3 positions on the rallye shield. Those were gone within 15 mins after sending out some e-mails
That tells me I offered them too cheap (they went for $100 a piece).
After that, we decided to do an other "run" and got more (we put those on the back of the shirt - again, for $100 each)
Some paid cash, some paid in parts that were raffled (and quite a few of the donated parts valued more that $100)
Remember. These sponsors were found in about 2 weeks all together, very shortly before the event.
Why should you hold back on sponsors for now? Have a good plan for the event first, so you can actually offer your sponsors something substantial. That way you can lure in more money.
Whether you want big bucks sponsors or go for more smaller ones like we did in 2004 is up to you.
I'm sure most of 2004's sponsors will contribute again and new ones will be easy since we've got some leverage with the 2004 event (wait till the next issue of Excellence)

Lodging / Social stuff
One of the only things lacking in 2004 (IMO) was the posibility to hang out together AFTER the days events (I guess we just didn't think of that).
See if there is some way to arrange dinners and make sure the hotel has a decent lobby/bar.
The fact that I didn't get drunk with my 914 buddies at the WCC was the only disapointment
We should fix that for 2005

Events / Activities
Some said that as long there are cars and people, it'll be ok. I think I have to disagree on that.
Yes, the social aspect is the most important, but if you only get to stand next to the cars, people will be bored out of their sculls at the end of day 1 and will prolly leave half way day 2
It doesn't have to be much, but there has to be something to DO. Try make the program as diverse as possible. If you have too much of the same type of activities, you will only draw a certain crowd. I think that was one of the best things about 2004. There was something to do for EVERYBODY.

That's all I have to say for now...

Oh, and most important. Organizing this thing should be at least as much fun as participating, so relax a little

cheers,

Jeroen

Bump.
Ya-roon. Great stuff. Organized is at the top of the list.
Scott, thanks for your support. I'm so dumb I didn't realize there were 'sides' on this. Who is the 'other side'? Do you want something other than Ventura/Willow? If so, just say it and present the plan. Absolutely no hard feelings; this is getting too much like work.

Next issue. GAF in Ventura 9/11. Still want to meet then, grab a bite, check out hotel, twisty roads, and other options. Is anyone from the 2005 group going?

I would like to go to Ventura. I would like to check out the area/hotel/possible activities.
Hence my post in the other thread that you did not understand........Me Me Me Me (aka, I want to go!)

I would like to go. I should know if I can by the end of the week.

Andrew

I'll be there