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Root_Werks
Okay, so this is about the 5th 914-6 conversion I have done. They are all drivers to this day. Heck, Even Craigh Laughlin has one of my old ones! My goal is to put as many 914-6's out on the road as possible since I think that is what the desing intended for them to be anyway. Anyway, I have heard soem thoughts about costs or how hard it is to convert. Nah, just time really. yeah, a few parts, but mostly just some time. Lets visit the part$ shall we. You will probalby need the following (as in not worth making):

Tank - Lots-o-options, but don't spend over $500 on one
Headers - $450 - 500
Mount - Zowie! Lots-o-options here as well. I have a jig to make my own, it works, but takes time. It is not hard, but takes a lot of time. I gave up and grabbed a patrick moly mount just today. I am running out of time.

Everyting else, you can make or do yourself. I will show you how in this thread over the next couple of weeks since that is all the time I have left!

Here is a shot of the holes drilled for the oil tank. Yep, I am using a Vellios tank yet again. They work great and use the later filters. Also, you can go down to your local industrial supply shop and have them make the pressure hose for like $40. The suction hose is even easier, but more on that later.
Root_Werks
If you are using a factory or factory style tank, you will need to drill these holes. Local hardware hole saws work great. I have had mine for years. Note the lowest hole (for pressure line) is not on a raised area. I made a template that gives me the exact center for this hole. Anyone wants it, send me a SESE. But, don't send one yet as I have many more templates I will show you later.
Root_Werks
BTW - that is just dust on my trunk lid.

One more for now, the 911 engine on the ground with an early 911 flywheel. I used a dremil and marked the timming marks and then put a little paint on them as well. Viola! You have a 914-6 flywheel. Easy! This is a 2.2T engine, so I am using stock 914-4 clutch parts (yeah, they work fine).
J P Stein
This should prove interesting.
What motor are you using?

You say you have a "shop" but haven't identified it (or I missed it)....it's OK to do that here....I think biggrin.gif
You may even drum up some biddness by doing so.

Do "we" get to nit-pick?....assuming you have some nits to pick biggrin.gif
IronHillRestorations
Hey, why didn't you come to the dinner at Duke's last month?? I would've enjoyed talking with another "converter".

PK cool.gif
736conver
I havent done mulitple conversions but I agree it can be done cheaper.
My 914-6 mount is home made.
I made my own oil lines even converted my oil cooler to a 90 degree fitting.
Found my oil tank used for $200.
Got my engine from a rusted out 911. Turned around and sold the 911 for parts and made money.
Homemade headers from the 911 heat exchangers.

It can be done cheap just have to find the "deals". Also you can make some of the things yourself and save a ton of money.
Root_Werks
Yeah! boldblue.gif You guys have the right idea and attitudes! I love it!

Yeah, I had to break down and buy 914-6 headers today from GPR. Grrrr. mad.gif They cut me a great price (GPR rocks!) but I shouldn't have had to spend a dime on the headers. I had 911 ones ready to modify, but had a friend who needed some (converting 912-911) so not even a rusty set to replace them. Oh well, whats another $400? sawzall-smiley.gif Same with the tin, I think I spent $20 on it? The hanger like $25?

Time, it mostly takes time.

My shop is called Root's German Werks. I have just operated it out of my garage at my house for about 3-4 years now. I even use to sponser PCA events from time to time. I have slowed it down a bit though as I work full time of course. My wife, Michelle and I have until the 20th to get this done. That is our Whistler trip with the Canada West region. So watch for posts up to then on this thread. I promise you won't be disapointed. biggrin.gif
Root_Werks
Out with the old.....

Eric Paine is coming up tonight to grab the MPS off this 1.7 as well as anything else he wants. After that, I think it will make a great door stop?

Tip - Don't just toss the engine. Some stuff can be removed to use off of it! One would be the rear tin. Did you know if you turn it around and make a few small bends and drill a couple of holes, it works perfect on a 914-6 conversion? Yep! It does. I will take pictures tonight of the tin work and templates I have. Post them tomorrow.
Root_Werks
QUOTE(9146986 @ Aug 5 2004, 10:47 AM)
Hey, why didn't you come to the dinner at Duke's last month?? I would've enjoyed talking with another "converter".

PK cool.gif

Duke's? Fill me in, I am still new to the list. sad.gif
thesey914
I dig this kind of resourcefulness
airsix
Who are you, Root_Werks? And will you accept if I nominate you for President of the United States? clap56.gif

I hate the "can't do it" culture and I eagerly look forward to the rest of your thread. smile.gif

-Ben M.
red914
Root rawks!! smilie_pokal.gif post more pictures!
Trekkor
I already love this thread wub.gif

tracking this topic ...now.

I will want templates , of course.

Goal for me is to have a six in the barn by the end of the year. mueba.gif

Thank you for the realistic approach tot his project.
I'll ignore those who chime in with their negative comments and " you're dreaming " talk. I've concluded from the small amount of research I've done that the project should go for less than $4k.

You will show us the way to do it for less. rocking nana.gif

Trekkor
Trekkor
I'm already sensing a " classic " in the making. cool_shades.gif

KT
Root_Werks
Lets talk tin shall we? wink.gif BTW - thanks for all the support, I will post $$$ along with a project like this.

Tin, tin, tin. what to do? Spend $450-500 on someone's decent metal stuff or $200 on the fiberglass stuff? Ooooooor:

Go down to the local hardware store and pick up a large sheet of 22 gauge mild steel and do it yourself? Hmm, lets visit that one shall we. smile.gif

I mentioned earlier that you can use the 4cyl rear tin by simply turning it around and making a slight mod to it and drill out a couple small holes for mounting. Well here is the picture of what you need to do to that peice. I didn't drill the little mounting holes yet, but that one is easy, just put the piece on and mark any of the little threaded 6x1.0 holes on the back of the engine. I wanted to show the mod for making the tin fit centered flipped around. Are you ready, this is a tough one so pay attention here:
Root_Werks
Ooooooo huh.gif That looks tough huh? I cut a few small slits in what was the passanger side of the tin and now the drivers side and bent them in just a tad to push the tin to the right of the car just a little bit. Dang! Is it all this easy? Not quite, lets see about the other 3 pieces. I have plywood templates copied from factory tin for all 5 pieces, but found I didn't need to make my own rear sections. So you only really have to make the sides and front. Here are some of those shots:
Root_Werks
A closer shot of the 3 peices you have to make and the templates. If you can see, note the holes in the plywood, I use a center punch and tap through those for perfectly alinged mounting holes. Each tin fits over the plywood peice nice and tight.
Root_Werks
What all the pieces look like together. I painted them black last night and drilled the last of the mounting holes. I didn't drill for heater hoses, but my templates have the hole centers and sizes for those as well.
Root_Werks
Another angle. You will notice that I had to tac together the front piece. rolleyes.gif I was cheap and bought the $20 sheet instead of the larger $25 one. Usually I can make this long piece all out of one piece, not two.
michelko
ohmy.gif smilie_pokal.gif

Very impressive work, canĀ“t wait to see more, much more, please

Michael

smilie_flagge6.gif
Root_Werks
So there you have the tin! 22 gauge can be cut with a really good snippers, or you can use a little jig saw, either way I clean it up with a little grinder. You know what? After you install these, they look great! It is not show quality, but they do the job and even look good. Over the years I have made some sets for people, but they understand it is not a professional job. To bend 90degree corners on a radias, I simply slit, slit, slit, slit, bend, bend, bend..... I have gone back over and welded, grinded those smooth before, but it is a waist as you don't see them once installed. You only see the flat finished parts. People who have seen my tin can't tell. smile.gif

Okay, lets look at the tank I am using. It is a Vellios tank, like the 3rd one I have used. I like them, good price, in a lot of conversions so you know they work now. Some of his earlier stuff didn't have baffles in the tank which caused the oil to foam up blowing up engines. That was a lot of years ago though. There are a ton of options for tanks, but you can pick up a V tank for under $500 which makes it a good buy.
Root_Werks
Note on the above picture I used the AN fittings. The pickup is just a 3/4 slip on and hose clamp thing. The pressure line I used a fitting and hose from a local industrial supply place. Funny, you walk in and say, I could use about 8ft of 3/4 oil line and these couple of fittings. They ask if it is for a backho or cat or something. Nah, just a car. wink.gif You can do whatever with lines, the pressure line is easy. Get an AN adapter for the V tank (Usually come with it) and an AN adapter for the engine block. They are cheap, the lines are cheap. I think I spent $50 on everthing for lines? I will show you a way to do the oil cooler soon.

Here is a shot with tank in car. I removed the fan shroud and carbs so you can see better. What a nice guy am I? smile.gif
Root_Werks
Okay! Moving along, what about the exhaust? Well, usually I grab old 911 heaters and mod them. But with no time and no 911 heater boxes, I spent the money from GPR (They rock, did I mention that?) and grabbed a set of Bursch ones. yeah, yeah, the paint sucks, whatever, go buy some more if it bothers you that much. They work and fit great. I should get them today. So how to hang them? We know the 1.7 hanger I have won't work? If you have a 2.0 hanger you still have to mod it. Sigh, so what to do? huh.gif Oh hey! I have a 914-6 hanger template! That's right! biggrin.gif Lets get fancy and go buy a sheet of $25 aluminum that is like 1/8 stock. Cut that out, clean up the edges, drill two holes and done! Don't even have to paint it. biggrin.gif
Root_Werks
That is a "Real" 914-6 hanger next to mine for comparing the two side by side. Nothing too tough. Just takes time. BTW - I did all of this work in about 4-5 hours. So the time even isn't too bad.

Okay, I am out of pictures, but will keep posting as my work progresses. I will try to get a few shots of the engine install (already in, but just hanging there).

With me running out of time and buying the moly mount from Patrick and headers from GPR, there really isn't much left to do. Isn't that wierd? After this, you are almost done!

More later..... biggrin.gif
cardiaceagle
Great post.
To you and all the others who take the time
and effort to make this site so great......
THANK YOU !!!

P.S. Enjoy Whistler !!! But watch out for radar
on hiway 99 .....the cops here are cherry pickers.
beerchug.gif
Air_Cooled_Nut
I hate to place a post in here because too many inturrupt the flow...but...how do you get the oil tank into the side and how is it mounted? Everybody mentions the cost and specialities of it but never how to install/mount huh.gif
Jeroen
The tank has threaded studs these go through holes in the inner fender and are bolted up...

cheers,

Jeroen
Dr Evil
I think that this is great, BUT how would a person like me (just doing one conversion) make some templates for the tin? I don't have originals to go off of lest I would use them. Are you in the market for selling a set? idea.gif
Thanks for posting all of this!
Mike
Brad Roberts
QUOTE
That is a "Real" 914-6 hanger next to mine


9146 uses a 914 stock 2.0 hanger... no different.

B
thomasotten
I want my TIN TEMPLATES!

Thread of the year. smilie_pokal.gif
campbellcj
Cool project! FWIW I got the sheet metal and Bursch headers from GPR. I had the headers Jet-Hot coated as Bursch paint sucks donkey dick (Zoisism). Believe it or not, I got a very nice repro muffler hanger from AA for around $18 on eBay! (Plus $35 shipping, LOL).

Keep us posted on the project.
Root_Werks
In answer to the tank question about mounting, yes, there are two small studs that stick out..... Maybe a better approach would be to say when you drill holes in the 914 for the tank, all but one hole has a "raised area". So it is almost a no-brainer. You just drill out all the raised circles. I made a template for the last hole that doesn't have a raised area (pressure line).

Not too worry for anyone, I will make avaible templates that are mailable or even offer some home-made tin for folks. It takes a while to make and the templates are hard to make. But the exhaust hanger, oil tank hole and other little things I would be happy to pass along.

Okay, I must start sending pics of what I did over the weekend! biggrin.gif
Brad Roberts
QUOTE
I will make avaible templates that are mailable or even offer some home-made tin for folks. It takes a while to make and the templates are hard to make. But the exhaust hanger, oil tank hole and other little things I would be happy to pass along.



Pay yourself 10$ an hour... is it really worth the money saved making some your own ?


B
Root_Werks
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Aug 6 2004, 06:07 PM)
QUOTE
That is a "Real" 914-6 hanger next to mine


9146 uses a 914 stock 2.0 hanger... no different.

B

I thought the 2.0-4 was a little longer on the end (as in have to shave off like 1/8 inch at the lower mount holes) than a 914-6?? smilie_pokal.gif
Root_Werks
Well, I didn't get the 914 fired off as a 914-6 this weekend. mad.gif Ran into a few small snags which just come with using old parts. Two time costly ones were one exshuast stud that just wouldn't come out that needed to be drilled etc... I replaced 8 studs in all down there. Also, the alternator, carbs and such I took off,,,, so yeah, I had to put all that back on.

Well, like I said earlier, I have a jig for making a cross bar. Lets visit that and Dan's opinions of mounts shall we. biggrin.gif

I like the patrick moly mount a lot. That thing rocks! It is light, tough as hell and a no-brainer to install. No doubt the bulk head mount Rich makes is a better system, but it costs time to install, not as easy. Lets look at some things:

Factory mounts, one bolt held up the front of the engine! Plus, the GT's had extra steal welded in to help brace them up.

Richs bulk head mount rocks! I have installed 2 on cars before. To do them right, it takes some time. they are much, much stronger than the factory bulk head system.

Cross bars - you can get the striaght bars - Don't, they get in the way of everything. Here is a picture of the Patrick moly mount I grabbed next to my jig. I have made a couple for myself and a friend. Mine are ugly and made of mild steal and suck compared to Patricks mount. I can make them, but no time with this one. Oh well. The cross bar works great and sometimes I wonder while mounting the factory 911 engine mounts in the 914-4 mounting spots if Porsche didn't do that on purpose? Like maybe there was a factory 914-6 cross bar in the works? Hey, you never know! rolleyes.gif
Root_Werks
OOps! Wrong picture, sorry. ohmy.gif
Root_Werks
A quick picture of the tin painted and all mounting holes drilled.
Root_Werks
And of course a shot of the crapy paint, but nice Bursch headers. I don't bother re-painting them. It would take 100 years for them to rust with the way I drive and the weather I drive in. They fit good and the price is certainly right. I wish I would have had a set of 911 headers to modify for you. Maybe some other time. Also, there is a way you can set up a heater with these! I won't have the time before Whistler to put something together, but will add that one for sure when Summer draws to a close.
Root_Werks
Oh yeah, the 911 engine mounts that go in place of the little steal bars when using the bar 914-6 mount. I didn't take any, but will try to get more pictures of the mount in place, where and how I routed cables all this week.
Root_Werks
Alrighty then! Enough looking at overpriced parts. What about making some more parts Dan????? Oh yeah, lets keep it cheap shall we! wink.gif

The next part we will be making is the shift bar. I have only converted post 73 cars, so I know exactly how to straighten out those bars only. Lets use my 73 1.7 side shifter for this example. I only have the two pictures, sorry about that. I got all tied up in doing it when I realized I hadn't taken any pictures! ohmy.gif

Here is the proccess:

Take your bar and cut if off about 3/4 of an inch away from the shifter coupling end that goes into the body of the car(firewall). So you would have the shifter coupling and oval plate the boot fits on and about 3/4 of an inch of pipe left. The little stub of pipe should be srtaight. Now, the second cut will be a little tricky. I wish I would have taken pictures of this. biggrin.gif If you buy a pipe, you wind up with a striaghter bar too.
Root_Werks
Actually, if you notice there is a slight, slight bend in mine. If you make them perfectly straight, they seem to bind just a tad. So I put just a little bend in mine. Here is another shot with paint on it.
Root_Werks
Here is a shot installed, no header pipes on this side yet. You can also sort of see the front pressure oil line just under the shift bar. Oh hey, and check out the really cool aluminum muffler hanger! Isn't that coooooooool? biggrin.gif

If you don't bend the shifter bar straight, it will hit the headers.
Root_Werks
Another shot with the right header up, but not tightened up yet, so it is sitting a little low.
Root_Werks
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Aug 9 2004, 07:07 AM)
QUOTE
I will make avaible templates that are mailable or even offer some home-made tin for folks. It takes a while to make and the templates are hard to make. But the exhaust hanger, oil tank hole and other little things I would be happy to pass along.



Pay yourself 10$ an hour... is it really worth the money saved making some your own ?


B

$20 for the 22 gauge mild steel, 4-5 hours for making the tin(cause I have done it before), so YEAH! I would rather spend the $70 paying myself to make the tin than $450 to have someone else do it! Granted, mine is not as nice, but dang, once in the car, you can't tell at all! I think the tin is the bigest savings. The headers probably the next and the bar a close 3rd.
Root_Werks
One last picture I took. Quality stinks, but I tried to get a shot of the oil tank in the fender. You can see it..... Sort of. rolleyes.gif

My next series of pictures will be on the throttle linkage. Buy the bellcrank thing, they 911 rod from eng to trans? Nah! Go spend $1.99 on a rod and see what you have lying around the garage. I will show you how to even still use the factory 914-4 throttle cable (Cheaper and much more available).

Plus, - simple 3 wire CD box wiring, finally my batter relocate shots and maybe even my running 914-6 down on the ground. biggrin.gif

So not to worry, still more to come!
Root_Werks
QUOTE(Dr Evil @ Aug 6 2004, 04:59 PM)
I think that this is great, BUT how would a person like me (just doing one conversion) make some templates for the tin? I don't have originals to go off of lest I would use them. Are you in the market for selling a set? idea.gif
Thanks for posting all of this!
Mike

I have sold sets in the past as long as the buyer understands it is just a guy snipping and bending and doing a little welding. I am not stamping these things out. I will post some pics of the tin installed and if people want, I can make sets to sell. Like the 3 pieces for $150 if you use your 4cyl tin for the back piece sort of thing. This last set wasn't my finest, but good. They are a little wavy compared to others I have done.
Root_Werks
I finally fired off the little 2.2T engine last night for the first time in this car. Only a few minor things that surprised me. One was someone removed the little fuel cut off sileniod so I had a brief garden hose of fuel draining onto the floor. sad.gif Got it fired off, set the timing and carbs just a tad to a rather smooth idle and snappy throttle response. Sounds good, sounds real good.

I didn't have any time to take pics, but will go through what I did on the throttle linkage hopefully tomorrow for everyone as well as some other little things.

As for templates, I will gladly make templates for those who want what I have. I will list everything out later that I have made.

More soon.... smile.gif
airsix
Dan (or anyone else reading this cool thread),
Anybody have a pattern/template/measurements for a bulkhead motor mount? I've got matterials and tools - I just need to know where to cut-n-bend.

Cool thread.

-Ben
Porsche Rescue
Don't think I will ever do a conversion but this is still a great thread. Thanks Dan.
Root_Werks
QUOTE(airsix @ Aug 10 2004, 07:23 AM)
Dan (or anyone else reading this cool thread),
Anybody have a pattern/template/measurements for a bulkhead motor mount? I've got matterials and tools - I just need to know where to cut-n-bend.

Cool thread.

-Ben

I worked with a914guy - Rich on this a while back. I was going to use his piece that mounts on the firewall and develope a piece that mounts on the engine that didn't require using part of the 911 mount. But after looking into it more carefully, Rich has really done a great job on his mount. If you try to make one from scratch ( I have twice and not been happy, scrapped both of them) be warned, it is trail and error. Rich has already gone through all of that for the bulkhead mount. Right after I got my Patrick Moly mount (awesome mount for a cross bar) I noted Rich selling his complete mount kit on eBay for $325 buy-it-know. UGH! wacko.gif I would have grabbed one, my timming was off by one day. Bummer and oh well.

The only reason I have usually made the bars is because they are easy and cheap to make.

I would still love to develope a bulk head mount. If you start planing anything, let me know. I might have some good feedback of my failures for you. biggrin.gif
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