Y a did Sunday Morning.....

I'm sure you have dyno sheets to back up your claim of "stunning" performance. Other than making the engine run really rich, I can't see a huge gain in any of this. I've always heard that the major limitations are on the exhaust side. Dumping way more fuel and air in isn't going to help much if you can't get rid of it. We're a pretty skeptical bunch when it comes to bolt on horsepower for our cars. Some sort of evidence is required.

$1800 per? They can eat dicks. I have a pair of 944 rear calipers i'd rather fabircate mounting for, than pay $1800 per caliper from them.

http://www.9xauto.com/cgi/914calip/pricetable.cgi

World Renown Company like CB Performance selling the fuel injected kit for the type IV engine for years, which includes large fuel rail and throttle body for every port. Just the one I've described. We resell one on our site. However, the price is $1700. Whatever I've stated was known for years. The type IV engine in our cars was designed during WWII. The Bosch only began designing electronic fuel injection in 60-70's to refit these engines with new system. It was their first try. In 2004 we know its shortcomings.


As far as our caliper price. Contact your local Porsche Dealer or Performance Product to verify what many of you found funny. New factory calipers are indeed priced that high. People from foreign countries usually buy them since used ones are not available. Most of the 914 are in U.S. anyway. Just like why OEM rear roof seal is priced at $278? It should be $50. Right?


I do not know why do I bother with this thread

I thought Cessna used Lycoming engines? What the... ?

You bother with this thread because this is the population from which you will derive your potential customer base for 914-related items.

You're right. If these are brand-new, never-used original calipers, demand whatever price you want. You may get lucky and find someone willing to pay your price.

However, for the most part, we are cheap bastards.

it's a tough room to play here. if you can get your prices more power to ya. but, why is that cone filter setup for the l-jet so $$$$? you should warn those purchasing a cb, linkage included item, that the kit contains NO THROTTLE CABLE BRACKET!!!:D

kevin

Gee, so I guess I can pay for my kid's college with the three sets of NOS rear 4 calipers, and the one set of NOS 6 rear calipers, I've got sitting on the shelf??

PK

Hi All,
When I posted this link here - I thought we'd all get a laugh... I had no idea this guy really believes his prices are competitive -

I'm a capitalist, as I think most of us are, but there is a time when folks are out to make as much as possible and not to serve a community. 9x, we welcome you here, but quick-buck parts & people don't do so well here. There are quite a few members here who create VERY NICE products for our cars and our 914 community. Their prices are very reasonable, and the service so far has been fantastic. We have better shifters, chasis stiffening that works, new fog lights, trunk shocks, light conversions, pedal boards, fuse panels, electronic do-dads so your fogs flash....all of these things created by our members FOR our members and the prices are very reasonable.

Hell, we even have members who own NOS parts and TONS of used parts. We have very knowledgable 914 shop owners and mechanics here, some have given their opinion.


The reason you are getting the treatment you are is because of the price and claims for some of your pieces, painting the picture for us. I'm afraid it may put you in the same category as one of the vendors in the southeast.

Er, I think you're confusing the Type 4 with the Type I, which itself was reworked a number of times after the original design. The Type 4 was designed in the 60s.

It's true that D-Jet was Bosch's first attempt at a commercial EFI system, but it's shortcomings do not start at the fuel rails. You still seem reluctant to back up any of your claims with actual data. Adding more fuel with nothing more than an enlarged throttle body is unlikely to do much of anything useful.

If one were to do a number of things to significantly increase fuel usage (much wilder cam, compression, more displacement, a turbo, etc), then it's certainly possible one could hit the limitations of the stock fuel rails in flowing enough fuel. If so, one would also need to increase the size of the fuel lines from the tank, and even the outlets at the tank itself, since they all pretty much share the same ID, which is where the flow restriction would come from. Since there are people out there who've increased power (and thus fuel requirement) by more than 30% using the stock fuel lines and rails, it seems rather unlikely the rails are much of an issue by themselves. If you're trying to tell me you can get more than a 30% increase by just a new TB, rails, injectors, and pressure, I'm going tell you to put the crack pipe down.

The parts look nice, and I'm sure they'd dress up an engine bay nicely. I'm sure if one were to actually NEED bigger rails that these would be useful. But dreaming up false power increases only damages your reputation. Bullshit doesn't always sell.

Just because Porsche of America thinks that something should be expensive should not be the mark by which others should guage their pricing. All of us know that Porsche of America is a dickhead. I could care less what they or Performance or anyone else thinks their shit is worth.

Want a set of /6 rear calipers? Take a set of /4 and bore them out 3mm (I think) more and cut a set of pistons for them. It won't cost $1800 each. And for that matter NOS parts - crap - potentially the rubber in them is 28+ years old. Yea, I know they were stored in a hermatically sealed, climate controlled vault since creation.

Those of us that sell less than NOS (meaning used) are generally fair and think of the buyer as a fellow Teener owner. With some exceptions, we are generally more than fair in our pricing. I deal with the "Automotive Recycling Industry". Catchy phrase for a effin junk/salvage yard.

So, IMO, keep your effing parts - I'll take used any day. I'll buy from you when I cannot find anything ANTWHERE. 914world.com members, by and large, support each other. Maybe someday you guys will get the idea - you are useless to us except in extreme emergencies. I suggest you hang with the CWs and Pinkie lifters.

And when you bring Europe into the equation, you're just shittin down the wrong hole.

I'm out.................,

As a parts distributor/reseller, you also know that is marked up quite high. In fact, high enough for us to bash the price. I've got a pair of new unused OEM 944 calipers. On that price scale, what would they bring in?

An almost lucid reply from SLITS....amazing. Must be in the MIDDLE of a three day bender....

BULLSHIT!

If fuel delivery was not up to it on a 1.7 engine then the engine would run lean, and would overheat, which AFAIK is not a common problem with F/I engines. (although some of them have overheated, the problem is not endemic).

Having run a closed loop Megasquirt system on a 1.7 Type IV with a wideband sensor in the tailpipe - I can tell you that I have never had a worrysome duty cycle on the 1.7 injectors (which I would have had if the fuel delivery system was not up to snuff).

Increased airflow MIGHT get you closer to needing more fuel delivery, but as Jake (with his LOADS of dyno runs and extensive testing over many years) will tell you, the exhaust side of the type IV engines is more asthmatic.

In addition the fuel delivery system on a 2.0 twin turbo subaru motor is very similar, and is good for 280HP.

Fuel Rails = Not a problem.

The End.

OWNED

i, for one, am glad to see a vendor participating on the board; what better way for them to see what are the concerns of a large group of 914 owners.

as for the prices of rear calipers; most places simply say they are simply unavailable. if supply is limited (artificially or otherwise: think debeers and diamonds) then demand will push price to the point the market will bear it. if someone is willing to pay 1800 for a caliper, guess what the market price is going to be? sad, but true. thank heaven for junkwards and parts cars!

someday i will learn to keep my opinions to myself...

HONEST QUESTION?

Have you EVER sold any (calipers) at that price?

I was going to stay out of this but since it is still going I thought that I would add my little bit. Either the site was put up in a hurry or they just didn't care to proofread there pages. Here are some quotes from the site.

"Replacing your old injectors will bring back the performance of your Porsche as it was intended to."

"WATERPROOF IGNITION KITS
No rain tray? No problem. "
Maybe a raint tray would be a better solution.

"Save even snore money without sacrificing quality when you buy our quality axles. "
what is snore money anyway

Just a couple that I noticed off hand, there are more, seems to me if they were serious they would have done a better job setting up their site.

Last I checked Porsche dealer price was $1300.00 CDN for rear calipers. I didn't bother to ask about availability.

Seriously dude, there are 2000 guys here that own at least one of these cars. And I doubt if there are many of those that don't need or at least want something for their teener.

Forget flaming back. Post your results, and listen, and then maybe start asking some questions of the guys here. You might learn something about your potential customer base.

Someone please tell me what makes a brake caliper worth $1800.00????

SteveSr

$1800 does seem mighty expensive - but it is a company's perogative to price themselves out of the market.

HOWEVER:



AFAIK - noone actually CASTS cross"drilled" 914 solid rotors, and DRILLED rotors are a very bad idea - because of the grain of the metal, rotors that are drilled after the casting process tend to crack and risk disintegration when heated and cooled. So I really wouldn't "recommend" that situation. Call me conservative.

Actually, Zimmerman does manufacture a cross drilled rotor for the rear (4 cyl).

However, feel free to correct me if you're wrong.

Gentlemen

Thank you for all the attention given to the subject. Who ever of you using foul language referring to my business, I would be honored if you avoid my business and never buy from me. Just bare in mind 914's are extremely small part of the Porsche aftermarket business. There are fewer vendors selling for this car year after year. Large companies already abandoned this car model. Bashing vendor like me is counter productive for the survival of the 914 model. People should be encouraged to develop items for this type of Porsche, good or bad. The interest must sustain.

There's no point in bitching about the prices. He can ask whatever he wants for them. We just don't have to buy from there. I say good for him. If he sells a few, he's probably way ahead. I, like most of us here, am pretty cheap. I'm sure he's realized that by now. Maybe he'll adjust his prices, and maybe not. It's his decision.

The fuel rail, on the other hand, I have a problem with. Claiming huge performance gains, without any proof to back it up isn't a good way to do business, IMHO. A "huge" performance gain could be an extra 1/2 horsepower, or -.0001 seconds in the quarter mile. It's not likely that you have any dyno info to back this up, but even G-Teching it before and after would give you some sort of tangible results. Then, perhaps, you can start making claims of performance gains.

Set your prices how ever you want, I have no problem with that. But don't make unrealistic performance claims without any proof to a bunch of really knowledgable 914 nuts.

Why should people be encouraged to develop bad items?

Sigh. There's clearly room in the 914 market for idiots like this. If a certain vendor in the SouthEast can remain in business all this time, so can this guy.

One wonders. There are over 2000 people on this board. No doubt some stats on the number of regular "unique" visitors to this board could be easily compiled, but let's assume it's a significant fraction of the signed-ip membership. How many drivable 914s are there in the US? What fraction of that buyer base is represented on this board by actively visiting members?

My wild guess is roughly 10K drivable 914s (9 parts cars for each driver!), so this board represents somewhere around 15-20% of the buyer base. Leaves 80% of the buyers unable to participate in this discussion, which is a shame.

To Mssr. 9x: it is in your interest to serve US, not for US to serve YOU. We can all choose not to buy from you (and I think it's a safe bet most people here will not buy from you), and you'll lose some fraction of the market. There are enough people on this very board who are honest and straightforward in serving this market that, frankly, we don't need you. I can assure you that if Brad or The Cap'n or James West (to name only three) decided tomorrow to start spouting utter nonsense about products or services they sold, they'd start losing their market, too. Granted, some businesses in this market have been able to survive a good long time pursuing highly questionable business practices. It's a real shame when they take even a dime away from the people who don't do this.

On the final note. The largest FI 2.0 engine in the 914 series has throttle body slightly larger than a silver dollar with a tiny fuel rail. The 944 with 2.5 4 cyl engine has throttle body and the fuel rail 10 times the size of the 914. So is the rest of the "Rice Burners" with the engines smaller than 2.0. I've metioned the reputable company makes large intakes for type IV engines to compensate for such short commings-and I'm still called an idiot on this forum by people claiming to be an "Assholes".

I love this place

WE are the assholes,
WE ARE THE ASSHOLES,
No time for losers,
Cause we are the assholes
Of the world......................,

Ok, so I don't sing well at 6 AM

Before I AutoX, I feed each of my shocks one Blue Pill and man do they get stiff. My times are 5 seconds faster on all courses.

Must be the thought of those high priced calipers rusting away in your wharehouse.....

You still have no proof that a stock 2.0L needs more fuel and air. Just because a 944 2.5L has huge fuel rails doesn't mean that it needs it. Plus, 944 engines , as well as rice burner engines, are totally different than a 2.0L type IV. You're comparing apples to oranges here. Once again, show us some sort of tangible proof (ie dyno pulls, G-Tech info, something). If you had proof, you might get some appologies. And the fact that 'reputable' companies make different intakes doesn't mean they are necessary either. Larger intakes have been disuccused several times here before, and other than slightly improved throttle response, I believe that the general concensus was that there was no performance gain.

So, rather than getting deffensive about people questioning the need for your high priced fuel rails, give us some proof that they work. And we don't consider proof to be "This guy said that a stock type IV needs more fuel" or "This car has huge fuel rails, why doesn't a 914." So far, thats all you've said.

PROVE IT TO US!!!

All is well, all is well, all is well.... Okay, sounds like this is turning pretty hostile pretty fast. 9xAuto, you are screwing yourself out of customers. Yes, yes, I know the 914 is a very small % of the Porsche aftermarket. But if someone comes back and says "$1800 for rear calipers, go F yourself dude!", a proper response would be "Possibly my buying power is not very strong for this part as this is the best price I can sell it at, let me know if I can help you with anything else." Not "Fuel rails are small and should be bigger."

You are not off to a good start and are wasting your time now.

So it sounds like you don't need our business. Maybe it is time for you to just go?



Dan Root(Root's German Werks)
Servicing 914's more than any other Porsche.

No No. I'm not screwing my self out of customers at all. Our 914 business is less than 5% if any. In the near future we will turn 914 inventories over to our affiliate and concentrate on newer Porsche models.

On the personal level, I participate in this forum because I love this car more than any Porsche I owe, and I do owe other models.

Any questions?

Are you accepting bids on your current inventory of 914-related products? Or, has that deal already been worked out with your affiliate?

So post a pic of your ride.....join the fray....