Hi Everyone,
So I would like to install some rear pickup point reinforcement ........ Is Tangerine Racing the only vendor that sells these????

http://www.tangerineracing.com/chassis.htm

Is there someone else that produces this at a more reasonable price??

Please let me know !

Thanks
Ed

IIRC CFR/Tangerine Racing were the fabricators of these particular parts. Yes good work costs money. The F in CFR stands for Fabrication. These parts for our beloved money pits are not off the shelf avaiable. So sometimes you actually need to pony up the funds. I bought an exhaust from CFR that will out live my car. I don't have any regrets on it at all. Yep could of gone the cheap route but did it once and am done with it. Sometimes you have to look at the process not just the price tag. This is just MHO

Sadly no.
I did my own.....cheep but labor intensive. As Red Green says (paraphrased) "If you aren't rich & handsome, you'd better be handy".

Ed, Looking at the great pics, we can prefab some of those at my house if you want. we could use my car as for the dimensions.

I've got some scrap pieces of tube and plate at my company that we can use.

Your call on this...

Dave

The kit and the inner ear strengthening is what I bought from CFR. I can certainly vouch for the quality of the components, spot on

I can also confirm that they will put up with some SERIOUS abuse and won't let you down. I've probably put them to the destruction test more than most


Here's mine getting installed:













I'd also suggest if you're doing this you strengthen the longs, like I've done.




I have to ask.... why do you think you need the above? do you race? or have a V8 or some other powerful motor in there? I'm assuming you've already strengthed the rear arms?

Hope this helps

Hey Dave!!! I tried calling you over the holidays but no answer. That sounds like a plan!! We should be able to make the parts up ourselves.

I'll call you later this week!!

ED

Hey Moggy!!
My plan is to go with a 3.2 or bigger engine and plan to do some A/X with the car and since I'm already in here doing this work thought it would be a good time to do it>
ED

One can see the differences in philosophy between the 2 supports. I wanted more lateral support for the ear which was needed for my large rear tires and still works for fore & aft support.

Is this kind of bracing needed for 205-50-15 DOT-R's or am I not to that point of adhesion yet?

Seriously, 400 bucks and you are squaking about the kit being reasonable? The people building products for our cars deserve to be supported and you should purchase from them, not replicate their hard work and lift from the pictures on this forum.

Larouex

Could have not said it any better

It depends. I've seen ripped off inner ears from stock a car with 205s....and that was more than 10 years ago and a CA car. If you have one of them blown out spot welds at a bad spot or interior rust on the ear bad things can happen. It is just another spot to pay extra attention to. We've seen several here at World over the years.

BTW, 400 bucks was 2 front tires at the time. I should worry about someone trying to make money off my hobby?....not bloody likely. Maybe 40 bucks and my free time to make what *I want* not what someone thinks I should want? Get real.

What I think is unreasonable is pushing someone to buy a kit they do not want simply as charity for member vendors. They'll be just fine without this kind of help.

People have been doing this reinforcement to 914s since long before this kit was ever produced ( most of the ones I've seen didn't use heim joints though? )

When it comes to this particular job, I'll make the part right here in my garage out of material I already have. It sounds to me like the original poster is going to do exactly that.

It boils down to "whats your time worth" and :
budget
timeline
I did it myself (fabbed it and installed it)
I installed it (purchased kit)
How many Buddy's does it take to install a reinforcing kit (purchased kit) ?
How many Buddy's tools /materials/time to install a reinforcing kit. ?

At some point during all this I may have just wasted $400 responding to this.

The fixed kit/non heim kit is $280



2012 Jeff

I don't quite get the heim joint in this location? Is it to allow for some movement or the fact that it allows the kit to be mounted on "every" car due to non consistent tolerances? Beautiful looking kit but In my humble opinion if I'm going to be down there doing all the welding than why not a straight tube?

Clearance - Makes it possible to remove the bar and drop the engine. Might or might not need it for your combination.

Chris Folley never said you have to buy his products but they are sure nice if you want a pre tested ready to go solution that you know will fit and work. Seems very reasonably priced.

Mine are heim jointed also
bolt in allows them to be easily pulled for motor drops
you can triangulate inboard with bolt in (which blocks the tin work on a 4 cylinder)

I have 1 set in my 4 cylinder car which were installed around 1990 after I ripped my suspension console out for the 2nd time on a track only car running 205 tires.

I have another set in my -6

I have a 914 fab shop here locally that builds these for all of its cars. I helped install and it was really nice to have something that fit perfectly and was tweeked and designed to fit simply.

I would recommend anyone tracking a car to check the outer swingarm pivot bolt (22mm) regularly. when they come loose not only do they oval the ear, but they contribute to ripping the console out. I used to have to tighten mine on a daily basis prior to the bars being installed in 1990-ish.

have never had to tighten them since.

I'd suggest checking this bolt because if it is working loose then it is a sign that you definitely need the brace.

picture of mine are in my vintage thread in my signature
brant

I always thought the CFR kit was reasonable.

Brant
I never had a lick of problems with the outer mounting point ear. Toe settings lasted a season as set.....checked alignment at the start of the season ...most years.

If you use a Heim joint, the bolts need to be "fitted" within the joint itself and to the mounting holes on the chassis (that makes for a 0 slop joint). If not, one can take out the slop in by pre-loading but only in one direction of thrust, not both.

Welding is a 0 slop joint, however, the area that one typically attaches the inner ear bar to is 16- 20 gauge sheet metal (Moggy did a better job there than most I've seen). A very large backing plate to prevent "oil canning" the area. I believe in overkill....one of my many character flaws.

Jeff:

I did borrow a welder....but bought my own gas & wire.
Brit helped do the deed but I'd have done it all myself with an added time element.

I was a builder...the hobby part.....and also cause my driving sucked.


BTW. For those that actually looked at my pics, you'll notice an extra chunk of sheet metal stuck on to the ear in the first pic. It is there because the outer section's upset is proud of the periphery.....oops. Had I known this before digging in there I would have left the sheet metal of the inner section on there & cut around (inside) it......shit happens & you replace it.

The replacement piece is 3/16" thick. I had a longer than stock thread on swing arm pivot so this was no problem. With the shorter stock pivot you'll run out of thread for the bolt using using a thick replacement plate.

I'm the original poster. The reason I asked if there is another vendor wasn't based on price........I can pay the $400 bucks!! MONEY ISN'T THE ISSUE.

I wanted to see any other options out there and what I actually get for $400 bucks....GEEZ!!

Ed

Maybe folks thought price was the issue when you said " Is there someone else that produces this at a more reasonable price?? ". Just saying

Ed - That's good to know....I'm here for you buddy....
I have a set that look a lot like the ones pictured above but they come in a really fancy box. I'll sell them for $2000. Any time I can help you out, just let me know. Your friend, mark

When you make these, keep track of your time, your materials,your electric bill, your consumables and all of your friends time. Figure the time out by whatever you make for a living and get back to us as to what is a reasonable price for this kit.

I just priced out the heim joints at Pegasus. Your looking at $150 on the cheap. That's carbon steel rod ends with weldable tube ends. If you go with oversize shank alloy rod ends with a nickel plated race lined with PTFE fabric your looking at $280. That's just for the joints. I'd have a hard time coming in under $400 just for materials doing it myself.

OTOH - I could cob some angle iron in there for little to nothing.

from my racecar:

You point is well taken, however IMO you don't need premium grade super high strength rod ends for this application. I used 7/16" heims rated at over 10,000 lbs from McMaster-Carr for $15 each.

But again your premise is sound; you still need to create a design, chase-down the parts, fabicate the plates and rods, and so on. I also chose to have the rods yellow zinc plated, so add yet more time and cost.

Andys

What is the advantage of removable strengthening rods as opposed to welded other than the fact that they are removable?

Engine access is one. Might be other reasons.

I just re-read the whole thread and I see that now. I would be worried about a slight bit of play unless like it was stated in one of the previous posts they where machined to fit very snug. Good info in this thread.

Removable rods are absolutely required for a -4 with full tin or for a -6.
The left and right threaded rod ends make installation/removal simple.
Non-threaded removable rods could be used but precise installation/welding would be critical.
I use fairly inexpensive (non teflon) 3/8" rod ends in my kit but they're sufficiently strong and tight for the application, which is static (ie. no motion).
Only 10% of the value of the complete kit is in the rod ends.
7/16" is overkill IMO, the bending loads are real small and 3/8" is fine in tension/compression.
The mounting brackets for the heim braces, made in-house, are more costly than they may appear - they require specialized tooling and precise fabrication.
I include long bolts to attach the rod ends because shorter bolts would have the threads inside the hole, allowing movement in the assembly.
The tubes are 1" od x .065w Chrome-Moly (primed only), which is plenty stiff without adding much weight.
We weld the threaded bushings in-house.
All the sheetmetal is CNC plama-cut and formed, in-house.
I think I've done about everything I can to control costs without cheating on the value of the final product.

I've bought 2 of the suspension ear reinforcement from Chris! He makes a great product & it is worth every penny. If you don't want the complete kit. Just by the ear reinforcement & do whatever you want for the brace to the firewall. After seeing many suspension ear cracks. I will be adding the reinforcement piece to every 914 I buy. Just good insurance against a break. I won't add the brace to the firewall on a Daily driver. If your autoxing then go full out

This is not true on many levels....not the least of which is the fact that the engine
installation with sheet metal in place is not required on a six. This makes moot the fact that my set up clears the tin.

[quote name='JRust' date='Jan 6 2012, 09:16 PM' post='1600949']
I've bought 2 of the suspension ear reinforcement from Chris! He makes a great product & it is worth every penny. If you don't want the complete kit. Just by the ear reinforcement & do whatever you want for the brace to the firewall. After seeing many suspension ear cracks. I will be adding the reinforcement piece to every 914 I buy. Just good insurance against a break. I won't add the brace to the firewall on a Daily driver. If your autoxing then go full out



Question for Chris.. I order a suspension ear reinforcement from Chris' site this morning. My question is , do the reinforcememts come 'prebent' to mold to the suspension ear as pictured on his web site?

The Paypal link has a pulldown menu to select either flat or prebent.I believe you ordered the flat ones.

I did not see the pull down.. can you please sends prebent?.... I revisited your site and figured it out.. If you've sent it, I'll deal with it.

Thanks

I bought the ear reinforcements too and they work great.... at least I think so... I'll let you know if they fail in the next 35 years or so...