I went to a family gathering in Montana for a relative of mine who is being shipped to serve in Iraq for two years. He mentioned that they had internet access over there via a wireless network and that he was thinking of getting a laptop. I thought it would be nice for the family to all chip in and buy him one. We could load it with pictures and our e-mail addresses and give it to him before he ships out.

So I called Dell and went through the ordering process. Right at the end I told them that it was going to someone who was being shipped to Iraq for two years. Their response? They cancelled the order!!! They told me that they can't sell to anyone who is taking it to Iraq because Iraq is on a banned list and that if the computer got in the wrong hands they could be held liable. I explained that it was going to a man who was in the military and they basically said that they could care less. WTF?? What do service men use over there for internet access? Two cans and a ball of string?

I would be very surprised if his unit allowed him to have it there as well. Securtiy issues, but I could be wrong.

Lawrence would have the facts about what you can and can't have. I would seriously doubt that they'd (Uncle Sam) allow any "unmonitored" internet devices in Iraq for obvious reasons. But it sounds like Dell could've been a little more tactful in blowing you off.

He is right, Microsoft and other software vendors wont let you take their software into another country for any length of time. If he is going to be stationed there, then they consider that living there and there are export laws you have to comply with. On the other hand, Dell is on the down slide right now in my book as well. A friend of mine ordered one from Dell and he said the guy was in India and was screwing up the order left and right. He cancelled his order and bought an HP locally. If Dell doesnt bring their support and sales back to the states, I will have to start shopping elsewhere for my clients computers in the future. I refuse to fuel a 3rd world country with my business. I dont even like buying Jap cars and parts. The only reason I got a Toyota is the price was really cheap and I got it used. Call me a redneck but if I can buy from an American company rather than some foriegn country, I will. It appears that Dell has outsourced everything but management to India.

Good point!

Unless they changed, Dell Computers are like 914s - they spend more time in the shop than on the road.

I've had seven Dell Latitude laptops(thru Work) in the last 4 years. Everyone of them has had the keyboard replaced atleast once and one 4 times. IMHO they are a POS.
If it was my money I'd look fror something else.

I do computer network support for some large companies and have for the past 9 years. Most of them are Dell houses only and I have not had very many problems with their servers and workstations. The laptops get an abuse unlike the workstations as they are moved around a lot and many people dont take care of them like they should. I like the computers from Dell, I use precision workstations here at home and I have Poweredge servers also here at home and never have any problems with them. But I wont buy any more if they continue to outsource everything to India. They used to be all out of Austin Texas, now they only do management there and everything else is outsourced. That is not the way to run a business. I predict that they will fail if they continue. There is a lot of bad press about the whole thing. There was even talk that they were going to move it all back here to regain what they had if possible. But that didnt happen yet, instead they made them all take english lessons and change their names to something American. Funny though, last time I talked to someone in support for Dell, his name was Jeff and he had a very strong indian accent. I got pissed and told him to let me talk to his supervisor, his name was Andy and he sounded just like Jeff. I finally said screw it and figured it out myself. Time for the nasty letter to Michael Dell.

Don't tell the guy on the phone it's going to Iraq.

Call them back and re-order it.

Ask him how his day is going and when his weekend is, etc etc. That way he'll think you care and probably be more helpful, and you won't be telling him anything he doesn't want to hear.

If any of you wants to purchase IBM laptops send me a e-mail - anyone interested could take advantage of my friends & family discount - Theo

I'll forward you the info and you can check the prices

some troops in iraq may have access to an authorized computer area. my understanding is in certain areas the internet and information is highly restricted. my son is there and moved to one of these areas. he warned me before hand not to be expecting emails for awhile. with the recent revelations of real time ship movements to unfriendly recipients, and other items the military would have rather stayed in country, the reasons are pretty obvious. this isn't a politcal reply. just the facts as i understand them.

kevin

I work in software engineering. Here's the other perspective on outsourcing:

You run a software project in the US (or UK), it's mismanaged, overscoped, and the stakeholders won't make a decision about when it's delivered. All the engineers are pissed off with being overworked and answering questions for stakeholders that refuse to read the documentation they have been provided (which answers most of their questions). Project runs long and costs more that you thought. The CxO's wife/mistress/hooker works for IBM or HP, who has a product that they acquired 20 years ago and have done no maintenence on (because all the origninal team quit shortly afterwards) which does something close to the project goals, but doesn't work very well. There is a mandate to use that product. Project runs long, may or may not succeed (80% don't), and runs way over budget. CxO gets huge bonus because he overcame insummountable odds to actually deliver the project, even though it is way over time and over budget. Project team gets laid off so company can meet wall street expectations despite running over time and over budget.

You run a project in India (for example), and everything goes just as badly, probably even 10-20% worse. However - every hour of taught conversations, repeating the same meeting over and over, and sitting in denial that it is actually good to talk about the project requirements costs about 75 - 50% less. So it's STILL cheaper, and the odds of success are about the same.

Politics aside - This is a totally avoidable situation - basically if we got on top of our collective shit as a country (better education would be a good start) we could seriously outperform other countries. Go forth, compete, and innovate.

I thought I remember reading something about the military banning ipods because of security concerns? if so, I can't imagine the miliary would let someone bring an actual PC with them.

Hello all,
Since Lawrence isn't going to respond , I will. Lawrence and I have spent the last year in Iraq. I bought a Dell Inspirion 1100 (from the outlet store) while in Iraq in Feb of this year; and had it shipped to my wife who turned around and shipped the SAME box to me in Iraq from the Post Office on post in Kansas. Not only did it get to me, so did 6...count them SIX...other Dell laptops for my soldiers!!!! Two soldiers had them sent DIRECTLY to them in Iraq at the unit address (APO). In addition, we had Dell laptops bought by the units and shipped to Iraq. The government laptops of course came through military shipping sources and not the USPS.
Just reorder the thing...get immediate shipping and then he can take it with him (no one will question him) or mail it to him once he has an address in Iraq in the same box and packing it came in.
Yes, there are security concerns with computers in Iraq. His Information Assurance Officer (my position) will brief him and be the one inspecting his computer for any unauthorized material upon his return. We had wireless internet access in our tents; but unfortunately this was not offered to everyone and was kind of set up on the sly using government equipment and satellite time. If he has a smart CSSAMO they will set up a similar system for the soldiers to use their OWN computers. I really just depends on the unit.
Again, Dell is being an ass! I like Dell products (I guess since I'm from Texas ); but IMOA they are slipping in customer service!

WoMBaT

P.S. COMING HOME!!!!!!

dude,
we're glad your coming home!
The invite to the Fall Foliage Classic goes out to you as well!!

DELL, IBM and HP are all "outsourcing" any job that can be done overseas; America is/has lost its competative edge in the only field left that we excel in: computer science. .....to the guy who bought his HP locally, wait until he needs support......Gupta, Patel or Mohammed will be glad to help him......each and every one with a months training to replace the techs with YEARS of expierence they replaced in America!

It will be impossible to deal with companies that don't outsource to India, China, Costa Rica etc. as this is the future of corporate America. Hugh companies and software mfgrs that sign multi-million $$ contracts with computer firms write into the contract that the computer firm must 'outsource' X amounts of jobs to win the bid (thus making BOTH parties culpable in the outsourcing of America).

Its not just computer firms: credit cards, x-rays, architechtural drawings, medical records, tax returns - anything that can be done via phone or fax is going overseas;

its just a matter of time before Mohammed in Bangladish sells your credit card number to Youseff in Pakistan who uses it to buy the explosives that Ahmed uses to blow up Starbucks in Tel Aviv....and YOU go to Gauntanimo Bay for a few years until someone figures out your c/c # was stolen/sold (there is no c/c protection in these outsourced countries).

Patel @ DELL was right in that there are 'denied parties lists' of persons and countries that selling computers to result in Draconian measures from Uncle Sam.

In what can only be described as ironic, it is perfectly ok to outsource American computer jobs to some of these very same countries that you can't sell computers to (Red China being an upcomming favorite......)

There is a lot of new security measures in place these days. I went into my local sporting goods store to order a .270 neck sizer die for reloading and was told it was on back order. Turns out that to export a lot of things you have to have government approval. The store orders new parts in (guns, reloading supplies, ect.) and 3 months after the rubber stamp is applied it can ship. I drove 2.5 hrs to the closest gun shop in North Dakota and bought the .270 die the next day. No problems at the border.

WoMBat...saw by your location your one step closer to home.

Have tried both the Dell and HP laptops in our business and really prefer the HP's. All the Dell's have had problems, keyboards, hard disks and video cards. No problems with the HP/Compaq laptops with years now of abuse. Haven't had to talk to Rashed for service since their products work.

Hey Jackass...

You were 8 feet from me. You could have mentioned this thread, while I was trying to download files for you.

Anyways, the young warrant officer is correct. Dell ships laptops into country by the palletful, under government contract. (Can you imagine what sand DOES to a notebook computer?)

Lots of soldiers have their own computers here, most hand-carried on the plane with them. Connecting to a network is a different thing, but the service is available in certain areas. I know that connecting a personal computer to a government network in Baghdad is a good way to get your hand slapped. But there are options available. Also, there's always getting a pin-drive and just working offline, and carrying your files to a system that IS connected. I've done that, too.

You do what ya gotta do to get by over here. A laptop (internet enabled or not) is a good thing.

Hope this helps,
Rusty

technically, germany was still controlled by the american forces in the '70s, so i think your precious little porsche could be called "American Iron" after all ...



Andy

His is "American Iron". The only thing left on it that is "German" is the basic tub (less fenders). It has "American" Fenders, Hood, Trunk (fiberglass) and American SBC and Ah Shit, I forgot about the VW tranny.

Hell, I'll bet it won't respond to Achtung anymore and prolly pukes at the sight of Bratwurst.

Never understood why the Deutschers couldn't eat anything that wasn't stuffed into an intestine.

Ron

because it takes "guts" to do so ...

Andy

You win!

Uh yeah. We really ought to stop trading with China until they stop treating people the way that Saddam used to.

Problem is that something like 90% of the products sold in Wal-Mart are made in China.


Glad you are on the way home Wombat - congrats. Sooner the better if you ask me.

My company has been doing work in Iraq over the past year as part of the reconstruction effort. We had no problem bringing laptops or desk tops into Iraq. Our biggest headache was taking them into Kuwait which was our staging area. Any computers brought in had to first by inspected by the minister of informations office for illegal content, i.e., PORN.

Ahhhh....the security implications brought up by all this...I can't take it!

don't know what to say - I hate those damn USB pin drives...