Exactly what the subject says. I'm trying to see how much I can pull out of this 110(correct?) hp car and keep her on 87 and reliable. A friend of mine suggested cams headers and port can get me about 150hp. Doable? 150 would be good for me to get use to the car. Anyone know of companies where I can pick this stuff up or other 911 components or something I can swap in? Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Derek

110 HP.

it would help us to know what year you have - you might be able to get a bit more out of the later cars by backdating the exhaust.

money is the factor. Bring LOTS! but it won't be a 2.0 when you're done.

I actually believe that 110hp is about the max you can get.

If you want to build a race engine then 150hp is very doable...

now I know Jake can easily beat these numbers, but your talking about big bucks then...

I'm guessing for 150hp and reliability you had better figure around 6grand.

brant

How long do you want this engine to last?

Stock is 95 for a 2.0... 110 is about max for an all motor street engine....

Not a whole lot you can do cheaply to a T4....

you friend reads too many "ricer" mag's

the Type IV does not respond too well to the normal "bolt-on" items that most other motors do....if you do some searching here, you'll see how Jake Raby (Type IV guru) will always say it's "all in the combination".........from what I've read here, the exhaust ports are terrible on our /4 motors.....the most common mistake people do is do a port job to increase the intake, which on the /4 motors are not a problem....it's easy to get the air in, it's much harder to get the air out.....of course you might say "fine, I'll just do some exhaust work"

well, the problem with that is that the stock heads do not tend to be a good starting point for this either...the solution is to use brand new square port heads and re-work those (more money)

also from what I've read, the cams available for the /4 motors are not the best designed, the best ones are available from Jake who has done extensive testing on them....not sure if he sells them seperately or not...

another thing to remember, the Type IV is different enough from the Type I's that you cannot compare the 2 when it comes to modifications

Ahh ok sorry kind of new to the 914's and wasn't sure if there was a difference or not. So stock is about the most I'll be able to get mostly? I want this car to last as long as it can. It'll be my daily driver. When I get out to Cali and have my cert. for auto body I'll be clearing about 1900 a month so money won't be too much of an issue. I haven't sourced one yet looking to get one in about a month and a half or so. I'm just planning ahead to see what I can do to it. Looks like suspension is getting bigger and bigger . Thanks for the info all.


EDIT: Also my friend doesn't to the whole ricer boy thing. He said he wasn't familiar with the 2.0 and was just suggesting on what to get to get me a power of about 150 but I see this is not attainable easily eh?

If it runs good now, dont do anything to it (engine wise..)

Beef up the suspension, put stickyer rubber on, put good pads on the brakes, and you should be good for a while. Then when you can afford a 6-10k engine... send it to jake, and he'll take care of giving you 150hp... Reliably. Or go for a 6 conversion, or a v8, or some other radical engine.

If Im reading right... You havent bought the car yet... You'll spend 5k in the first year getting everything fixed/perfect.... Without even touching the engine. Thats incorperating some mods to it here and there....

a stock 2.0 is 95 hp, and you can modify that to about 110 hp... Just to clarify...

assuming you mean California and not Cali, Colombia, price houseing before you count up your "discretionary" income.

if the car in question is a '76 there is damned little you can do and still meet smog, which is required for that car. and maybe earlier cars too, if they're brought in from out of state - i haven't read all the proposed legislation on this issue which is still in flux ...

unlike a lot of other car makers, Porsche never left that much 'free' HP on the table. as soon as you go looking for more, you start compromising something else.

Alright. What would I need for 110. I wanna be able to at least beat out the ricers ya know. I figure I'll spend more than 5k into it. Prettt much everything I get from now for 2 years goes into it. Plus I don't remember if I posted this in here but I will be able to work on my car in class. The shop has welding paint booth and plasma cutter! Also some other things.

Oh I believe a 74 and older doesn't have to meet smog right?

If anyone would like to chat and give me advice and not flame me feel free. My AIM should be up and I'm on most of the time.

use the search button here and at shoptalkforums

not trying to flame, it's just that this is asked at least once a week along with the different conversion questions.....people tend to forget how to use the search buttons and google

like I mentioned earlier, from what "secrets" Jake and others have let out.....the cam and the exhaust are the weak points of the /4 motor....the best header is the Tangerine unit, next would be a tie with the European Racing and the Triad (Triad is more expensive I think)

Tangerine=about a $1000 for complete setup
Euro= about $600 for a complete setup
(might be higher depending on options such as coatings...see vendor section)

bumping up the compression also helps and is recommended.....

with that budget, can you personally do the engine work or will you have to farm it out...that'll make a huge differance as well since money saved will go further into getting "goodies" for your engine......

don't get hung up too much on the "110" hp level, these cars can be pretty darn quick when stock, but most people don't have thier cars running perfectly to know what they should be like........

the best bang-for-the-buck is getting one of the stroker motors, once again, search for information, but make sure you are sitting down, they are not cheap

a good running 2.0L can be pretty damm quick in the hands of the right driver.
don't expect to be competetive at the drag-races tho, for that, you'll need to bring wads of cash.
but as long as you're on a twisty backroad, all them ricer boys will see is your rear.
and they won't be close enough to read your lic. plate!

i just forked out ~$4k for a freshly rebuild 2.1L which will hopefully bring me in the 125-130 hp range. oh, and i don't run the low octane gas with that anymore, plus, there goes my gas-milage, compared to stock ...

you get what you pay for, or was it, you pay for what you got, or something like that.

as for the flaming, no need to go AIM, we're more than happy to flame you here in "public" ...

(that was a joke) ...
Andy

just to give you an idea of what a somewhat stock motor will do. At the last DE I did in April I could keep up lap-time wise with a 993 in my run group, he would leave me on the front straight but I coud catch him in the twisties! My car had a slightly more torquey cam and euro pistons with weber carbs. I had maybe 110 hp.

I passed these cars that day:
Boxster S
87 911 Carrera
944 turbo
944
Boxster 2.7

All that in a car with no sway bars and crappy OLD street tires. Granted this was the 'C' group.

Make yourself a better driver before you get caught up in the hp #'s.

Alright I'll look into it. And Andy don't worry about offending me I know these have been talked to death but searches don't usually like me. But seriously if anyone wants to talk about what they have done with their 914 and price feel free to talk to me on AIM. I get pretty bored.

Dang an awesome run seanery! I think I will get into driving better than getting into horspower. I think it might be a good project to rebuild a 2.0 though. Turns out I'm stayign here another 6 motnhs to finish up and get my mechanics over with also. Chrysler here gives donor cars for them to work on! Sounds like fun.

If you wanna whip a ricer invite them to an Autocross. I whiped alot of 240SX cars last weekend. Same playing field we were all novice drivers.

This would be with a STOCK 70 1.7L D-jet. But it is yellow so I guess that's it. Shit imagine how fast I will be once I learn how to exploite the potential if this car.

By the way half the ricer crowd had to come look at my car to oogle. I did not feel that complelled to see a new 240.

Guys 110 is not the limit, my 2056 made 118hp and 116ft-lbs at the rear wheels. I was, at the time of Dyno testing running a mix of 93 and race gas but that was for a safety margin more than a power thing. I am running stock modified exhaust system, wait until I get headers. I ran this car for 17k miles on 89 octane everyday until I wrecked it. Yes i tuned the hell out of this motor and I played with it frequently but not due to major parts failures, I wanted more out of it .

no one said 110 is the limit, but on a stock 2.0, everything beyond 110 will cost real money ...

how much did it cost you to go from 2.0 to 2056?
gotta add that to the list as well. and i'm sure you didn't stop there ...

Andy

Going to 96mm pistons and cylinders doesn't really cost any more than the 94mm variety. The biggest issue is switching from djet and a stock cam to a more potent cam and a different fuel injection system. My guess is that those two things and tuning would unlock another 15hp. Good head work also costs a small fortune.

914s (excluding 6s, v8s and other hybrids) aren't for beating out ricers in a straight line. Having said that, a 1.7 914 will beat out just about all ricers as soon as you take that freeway offramp (without braking from 80), or a twisty road.

I have passed (not very well driven) corvettes on the racetrack with my 1.7 engine. It's not quite as satisfying as the phenominal kick in the ass you get from a horsepower car, and every mistake costs you a lot more, but the handling really is pretty wicked. It's also easier (read: CHEAPER) to improve the handling of a 914 than it is to add horsepower.

Horsepower means a Raby engine (8k), a six (8k) or a hybrid. Sticking another engine in there varies in cost depending on how much "innovation" you want to do with your welder. Some people (Andyrew) have been able to do amazing things for frighteningly little cash. My conversion (subaru 4) will almost certainly cost less than a raby/six engine but not if I budget in my own time at my client billing rate.

The other problem with hybrids is that there aren't many people about that will want to race you (most bodies don't like hybrids, namely because you can kick their ass, and they don't like that very much. They don't like "those" kinds of cars. They try to keep things "all porsche", irrespective of the fact that the factory never put a 3.6 in a 914.

that's right but unless he's planning on a rebuild already any money thrown towards new pistons and cylinders is money out his pocket.

he has a 2.0 and he want's moah power. good. it's not relevant if 96 PC cost the same as 94's.
if he goes 96, he'll have to pay for it. i don't consider that a cheap upgrade ....

Andy

It's not even a worthwhile upgrade to pull the engine apart just for that. It's more of a 'while you were there' upgrade.

sorry friend, but that's just too funny.... your career can, indeed, bring in some decent money at some point -- but don't underestimate the cost of living out here, even for a bachelor. want to live NOT in a ghetto? want to eat out every once in a while? want to go out a bit on the weekends? want a GF?

bam: that's 25k/year right there in LA/Bay area. now add car.

I have friends who spent 250-360k houses in neighborhoods that force them to put bars on their windows.

I'm really considering moving back to LA (work is hopping there again), but I can't see spending $500k for a similar house to the one I have here

and insurance ...

as we were packing to move out of Lake Tahoe, NV to move East we saw a story on a Bay area TV news broadcast - 1 (!) BR apartments in San Francisco renting for $2400/mo ...

there *are* places in California that are not (quite) as expensive to live, but in all, i keep being reminded of something i heard a long time ago -- "it's not what you make, it's what you keep ..."

there are downsides to every place to be (and upsides too...). just now, i'm renting a 3BR 2BA house with a 2-car garage on an acre for $1350/mo ...

outsch! that hurts! around here, that doesn't even buy you a closet ...

$2000 for 2200 sqf in a fairly nice converted warehouse, secure parking lot (but no roof) and NO lot what-so-ever. you have to walk 2 blocks to see some green ...

but, i can hear the bullets fly @ night, plus i have *free* cop-tv, just sit at the window on a sat. night and watch while i sip on a cuba-libre and smoke a cigar ...

gotta love west-oakland ...
Andy

My wife lived in Oakland in a converted warehouse before we were married. She still refers to the place to this day as the crack mall.

Rents are a tad lower here now than they used to be. It's actually possible to rent a decent apt. on the Peninsula with covered parking for under $2000/mo. Buying a house, however, is even more expensive than it was a few years ago. Average in Santa Clara Co. is now over $450K, and it's about $500K in San Mateo Co. Even people with good jobs basically choose between a nice car and a house, and most houses are owned by couples with two good incomes.

However, if by "California" you mean to live in the Central Valley (Sacramento, Stockton, Modesto, Fresno, Bakersfield), housing is a good bit cheaper, but apt. rental is still pretty steep. If you mean SF or LA, however, $1900/mo will be hard to live on.

Just remember that when you get out to Cali that nobody out here actually calls the state Cali.

Haha don't wanna scare me off. Thanks for correcting me on the cali term. I'm from Vegas originally(born and semi-raised). All of my family lives in the central(sac) area. My grand parents live up in forest hill. They bought their house a good 10 years ago and sold it to my aunt and uncle this last year. Uncle works in a lumber yard and so he is adding on a small apartment on the side of 2 bedrooms and 2 baths which will be odne in a few months(plus a studio where we can jam). I was expecting to pay 3-400 a month but my grandmother said she wouldn't charge me any more than she charged my other aunt and uncle to live there. So it's gonna be 200 a month and a bit of groceries here and there. Utilities included with the 200 a month. The isnurance is what got me. The plan to get a 924 or an MR2 was what I wanted to do. Friend said there was a loop hole with 924's cause they don't consider them sports cars? Then since the live a good 16 miles of twisty roads I'll have a good drive(but careful, It's a good 1k drop off in most places) to and from work though on the down side in the winter up there it gets pretty bad. So my plan is to park my 914 and either get a 99-01 Subaru or a small 4x4 diesel truck of some sort. The car will most likely be parked at my mother's house or if I can up in forest hill. It'll probably be parked till I get off my mission for my church from 19-21. My mother will drive it around for me once a week to keep the motor going.

First off-

No one should be running 87 octane in their aircooled engines! The cars were designed to run off of atleast 89 octane LEADED FUEL!! The oxygenated fuels of today burn hotter to emit less pollution.

Secondly- My engines do not start at 8K. an 8K buck engine built on your core is atleast a very optioned 2270, or a 2316 making 185 ponies.. Most of them are closer to 6500-7K 100 % complete, dynoed and ready to drop in.

We are working VERY hard to make the new venture at our shop to allow customers to have the engine they need (not necessarily what they initially want) and to do so much easier and cheaper...

Next year our engine sales will go down and prices on those engines will go up as the engines themselves will become our hallmark..... Big things are on the horizon- stay tuned.

So you take my engine and beef it up or? This might be worth waiting a year and paying you.

Call him, Talk to him. He'll tell you how it goes and what you would want, and how much...

(dont know about right now though... lol)

yes. it would definitely be worth it.

Yes, You send me YOUR engine and I use it for a foundation.

Next year we are going to try a different approach. One that will lessen our workload here and hopefully make it cheaper and easier to get something that you need, engineered to work and last.

I'm getting tired of 18-20 hour days and not being able to leave for a week without the world falling apart.

Alright Jake I'll contact you but not until I have the 914 in my posession. Do you also do 1.7 or 1.8 just in case I have to settle for a smaller engine? And running on 89 regulary with your built engine can I keep it on 89 or do I have to go higher? Also how the MPG on a built engine? I will be driving it to and from work 40 miles a day so it also must be reliable if possible.

Read here:
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/why.htm

That'll give you an idea of my approach to these engines. I am updating my site heavily right now but everything that is open to view is all new fresh stuff- read it.

The smallest engine I build is my version of a stock 2.0. If you have a 1.7-1.8 it cost the same for me to build those as a 2.0

If you want a stocker, you may be better to find a local to get you going. Then save your bucks till you know what you want THEN seek my services as they are centered around a more efficient modernization of these engines. Smaller engines have not been part of my R&D for a few years now.

I am in the midst of adding over 120 different engines to my site with a ratings system as well as projected performance, life MPG and etc. Look for it in a couple of weeks. If you choose one of my engines designed for fuel economy you could get up to 35-38+ MPG. Nothing we build gets less than 20 and thats a 200HP monster.

"Build for efficiency, and everyhing else will follow"

Ok so I tell ya what I want and you let me know how close you can get to it? These new engiens will be on a click list with specs eh? Would be good. Also the winter of 06 I have to garage the car for safety. If I can get it in for the winter and you all could have plenty of time would it be easier for your company?

You tell me what you want and I'll tell you if an aircooled engine is capable of doing what you desire..

If it is I crunch numbers and look at my old files till I find one that looks right for you and we tweek it a tad bit and make it into what you need.

What people want, and what they need is sometimes a very different thing. I deal with everyone from teenagers, to middle aged drivers to retired customers to race car drivers... In one 30 minute conversation I'll have you pegged and will know what you need- Thats what I'm getting paid for.

The new layout will rate each of our most popular base combinations (a base combination was the very first engine built in that state of tune before we tweek them into exactly what the customer needs-test engines) in everything from idle to top end performance and fuel economy and longevityand each will have a dyno graph.

ooo I like. I'm still reading your why us but I will definately get a hold of you when I get it and am ready for a swap. Thanks and I'll keep in touch and I'll keep my eye out for site updates.