VW Fox.

1988 is what I'm using.

Slight grinding required.

50% bigger than stock.








The calipers are very low priced.



KT

Are there good racing pads available? And please provide details on the extent of grinding necessary.

Geoff
(I race against your Mercury in 24 Hours of Lemons in a 1969 Opel GT)

You have to relieve the caliper about 1/8 inch where the rotor passes through and enlarge the bolt holes to accommodate the 914 bolts.

Doesn't take long.


KT

Trekkor! How the hell you been doing!?

Interesting, I've been kicking around diving into the VAG parts bin for a lower maintainance rear caliper.

I'm guessing the Fox caliper cross refs with Rabbits etc. Maybe Quantums?

Doing great.

This mod allows the use of 13 inch rims.






KT

It's been a while!

Those wide meats with the flares on 13s are sick. Seems to be sticking well on corners too. That car is coming along very well.

It has been a while, friend,


regarding brake pad options, Porterfield has all the goods.
I'm running R4's.


KT

http://s944.photobucket.com/albums/ad286/t.../746%20returns/

The full story.


KT

are these a direct bolt on? besides the grinding that needs to be done? what about the parking brake?

Looks like Trekkor is running 4 front calipers. IIRC the fox had drums on the rears for all years, to that's not a great source for a parking brake.

Dangit, I just realized the parts from ATE are fairly interchangeable. If the carriers fit on 3" centers, calipers for another car with ATE floating calipers will likely fit.

Trekkor, you wouldn't have a measurement on the distance between the float pins would you?

I obviously don't think real fast before coffee.

Quick update.

Preface, I don't have the dimensional limitations Trekkor does, so I can go a bit bigger, 15" rims will be minimum for this. I'm running billett hubs up front w/ 11" vented rotors on stock 3" struts.

I knew there were some options when Trekkor bolted up FOX calipers. Knowing that G55 calipers would bolt to a fox, I did some quick research and called a couple of VW friends with builds going on. Turns out the girling G60 calipers will interchange with the G55 as far as mounting, but it uses an 11" vented disk. The girling g60 can be found from 1989-1991 Audi 200 turbo quattro, 92-94 Audi turbo quattro, 1990-1994 Audi V8, 1992-1994 Audi 100 V6, 1987-1988 Audi 5000 quattro turbo, 1984-1988 Audi 5000 turbo, and 1993-1995 Audi 90 V6. Piston bore is 60mm.

The 1993-1995 Audi 90 V6 uses a 10.86" non vented rear rotor and the caliper uses an integrated parking brake. This isn't ideal, I'll probably have to relieve some of the metal on the rear caliper. .3" at most or come up with a different carrier.

It will require a 25mm master to push all those pistons, but it's a complete, balanced system and appears to fit.

Thanks Trekkor, now I'm pulling my whole brake system and I blew my allowance at a used parts joint. Again.

The v6 audis used the 10.86 dia vented rotor and the G57 caliper. The g60s are a duel piston and used a 24mm vented rotor about the same dia as the 84-88 sc. But the g60 bolt spacing is 3.70 not 3.0.

jeff

Yeah, there's a $100 bracket in there to make the fronts work, the rears should bolt right up.

Where can I find a bigger master cylinder?


KT

Trekkor??? Good to see you my friend!

Hey dude! I figured this was some old post dug up.

The master from a VW Transporter from '73 and newer is 23mm and should bolt right up. It should be big enough even with the fox fronts in the rear, but I can't verify it. There's the downside to the watercooled brakes, huge cyls.

Thanks! I'll check Rock Auto.


KT

I'm new here....


KT

The MK3 Golf is 22mm, the VW-G60 and Audi 80 were 25mm with the same flange as the 914, but the interface between the pedal and the cyl are different. Should be easy enough to fab up a solution (this is where I'm going). There's a mercedes 23mm that's direct fit too, but I can't remember what it came from.

There is a 24mm master cylinder from a Mercedes that is a direct bolt in replacement for a 914 master cylinder. I have one on my car for the Boxster calipers. Don't know the part number from memory though.

If you remember the part from the car, please post!


KT

I've got a part number at work I'll try to remember to post tomorrow.

PN: 002 430 93 01
ATE Number: 03.2123-3402.3

23mm Master Cylinder
Mercedes Applications:
450SLC from chassis # 007850 107.024
thru chassis # 011199 107.024
450SL from chassis # 021172 107.044
thru chassis # 028299 107.044
280 thru chassis # 120210 114.060
280C thru chassis # 106627 114.073

RockAuto only seems to list aftermarket or reman units. I can get a new ATE part for $175 if anyone is interested.

Also, you'll have to get a little creative for the second reservoir feed line, because IIRC it's too far forward and will run into the chassis.

All you need is a little "dimple" in the sheetmetal to clear the line ...

My understanding after tons and tons of research is that the only thing you get is more pad material with a larger size pad. Friction coefficient doesn't really go up. If it does then you have heat shedding issues.

How has this pad/caliper package worked out for you with regard to heat, fade, and feel?

Thanks for the p/n Mark.
What year Benz is that?



KT

I have no problem with that at all!



KT

I run Porterfield R4 pads on the Fox calipers in the front and on the stock rears.

The stopping power is better than ever.
It could use some more rear bias.
I still run the stock prop valve so a tee or using another set of Fox fronts as rears with a lesser pad compound should help.

These do not fade.
I have cool air ducting and run Motul brake fluid.
Calipers do not get above 300°.

Also, the fact that only the inboard pads contribute to caliper heat soak is nice.
Plus the piston bore is in the air stream instead of within the confines of the wheel shell.

It's a nice set-up.


KT

just to confuse the issue Volvo calipers bolt up without any mods. Dual pistons also

Yes, but will they fit under 13" rims?


KT

I think if that line is that far forward it will be hitting the steering rack boots.

I looked it up for a 73-76 Mercedes 280.

I believe it will be long, if not too long in a 914. The end cap will need to be ground or the crossmember dimpled as well.

Here are the lengths from mounting face (the part that presses against the body) to the end of the MC.
914 MC: 137mm
Mbz MC: 154mm

I have a 69 911 up on the lift and held the 23mm MC up and it looks like there is JUST enough room.

This picture also shows the difference in the supply ports.

In my 914 it hit.

Ooooooooh!

Trek - you're the reason I am still hooked on my 914. Stick around dude

Thanks!

I'll be here now and then.



KT

This is very helpful.

thanks!


KT

which model volvos? rears too? with e-brake?

Volvo 240 model--fronts are 4-pot, rears are 2-pot.

Most 240 front calipers have 2 input ports (and 3 bleeders), so you'll need to address that with a "T" or something (there are some pictures here in the garage somewhere). There are 2 sets of PNs, 5002026/7 (L/R) for non-vented rotors, and 5002028/9 (L/R) for ventilated rotors. Volvo gradually switched all 240s over to vented rotors during the 1980s (our old 83 GL was non-vented), so unless you plan to go with the thicker vented rotors you'll probably have to use the earlier caliper.

Another note--front calipers from late 240s with ABS (1991-1993) have only one input port and one bleeder, but are all for vented rotors. PNs for the ABS calipers are 5003754/5 (L/R). I've got a set of those sitting in my garage, but need to compare them to the non-ABS calipers and look closely for differences.

Not sure about using the rear calipers, but do know that the Volvo parking brake is basically a drum brake set-up. The cable actuates a pair of shoes that contact a "drum-like" cavity inside the rear rotor. Pretty good design for what it is . . .

Hope this helps!

What's going on Trekkor?

Doing really well, enjoying myself.
Car is very good.

Getting ready for anther season of track driving.


KT

Just ordered the MBZ master.


KT

Just found this car for sale:

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/porsche/...327370813ss.htm

...and it has Volvo 240 fronts with BMW 320 rears. Interesting combo!