I was trying to fit the new pedal board I have and it won't fit as it keeps binding on the brake pedal. When I played with the pedal I can move it off of the rest towards the master cylinder about 3/4" using one finger. I believe the free play should be closer to 1mm?

Anyhow it seems to me that I should be adjusting the rubber stop forwards to reduce the play - and this would move the rest position of the pedal forwards and reduce the free play and hence also the pedal board to fit in. Is that correct? or am I missing something?

OK...

How do I do that adjustment? I can't see any way of moving the rubber stop towards the front of the car as it is attached to the bearing tube. Essentially I am trying to stop the spring pushing the pedal up too far, but I can't see how to make that adjustment. I think I have read that the pedal height is adjustable?

Hope this is clear,

Thanks,
Richard

Normally the brake pedal adjustment is done with the push rod itself. You unlock the nuts on the back side, and screw the rod in or out to get the required clearance, then lock it up again.

With 17mm clearance instead of 1mm, clearly something is amiss. I cannot imagine what might be wrong. The master cylinder is not bolted to the pedal cluster? The piston in the MC is not coming back to rest position (an internal spring problem)? The brake pushrod was disassembled and not assembled in the original setting?

The brakes worked very well when I last drove it. Is it not equally possible that the MC is fine and the pedal is just continuing to rotate towards the driver even though the cylinder is in the fully 'relaxed' position. You could adjust the pushrod to reduce the free play, but the pedal would still be sitting too high when released - which seems to be my problem because I can't get the pedal board located as the brake pedal is too high and doesn't allow the pedal board to lay flat between the two screw holes.

Thats what started me off.

I have searched and found several remarks saying you can adjust pedal height, but I can't figure out how.

R

The brake pedal is not adjustable (just the free play)


B

Well that simplifies things.

So according to the manuals there should be 5 - 7mm free play at the pedal - does my 'finger test' count as free play or is it something more subtle?

What about fitting the pedal board (both a wooden one and the aluminum one) - it seems that I am depressing the brake pedal lever in order to get them attached. Any ideas?

Richard

Yes, the finger test is good. Once you start to feel heavy resistance then you would be trying to apply the brakes. I agree that the pedals are not meant to be height adjusted. The springs push them back to their stops, that is their normal position. Then you adjust the linkages to set the clearances. You can set the clearance without the board in place, with the exception of the clutch stop.

It has been a while, but I recall having to manipulate the pedals to get the board into place. Take off the rubbers first, that makes a big difference.

I can get the board on, and I can just screw down the wooden one, but it is bending over the brake pedal lever - at that point the free play is just right, because the board is restricting the pedal from rising upto touch the proper stop. If I manually lift the brake up and 'bend' the board, then I get to the correct end stop. I can't do that with the aluminum board and hence I can't get it into a position where I can attach both mounting screws.

It also catches on the left side of the gas pedal, so I suspect I am doing something wrong as I expected it to lay flat once I had fiddled it over the pedals correctly.

I just can't see the right way to do it.

Richard

The pedal boards can be a little tough to get into position. You should not have the stop for the clutch locked down prior to putting in the board. I have found that it is easier if you install the stop for the clutch after the board is in. You do have to depress the pedals to get the board into position. Take your time it will fit. I have sold many of these and not had any issue.
Often it is easier to remove the rubber on the pedal to install. The cutouts on my pedal board design were made about .12" larger to help with this issue. All the boards used in the 914 were the same design for all years. Difference exist in the materials used - pressboard vs. wood.

If you still have trouble post a pic of where you have the problem.

Mark

yeah.. show us a pic.. I know you have a camera... Get the clutch pedal into the board THEN put the clutch stop in place. There is enough room for this.


B

OK, try these.

The board is on and I attach the right hand side mounting screw. The middle of the board is pressing against the bearing tube and the brake pedal and the left hand side is way up in the air.

Now try the other way - attach the left hand mount screw. The board is catching in the middle on the bearing tube and the brake pedal. The right hand mount hole is way up in the air away from the hole on the cover plate. If I try to force the right hand mount in I am bending the board and the brake pedale is depressed over half an inch by the board, and I still can't get it to attach!

The clutch pedal fits fine, but notice that the board is binding the bottom of the gas pedal, even when it is 'almost' in the correct position. I know the board is EXACTLY correct, its almost as if my pedal box is too far towards the back of the car (and I did check to see if it had been relocated).

R

How far off is the other mount hole?

M

Whichever side I attach, the board on the other side is about half to 3/4 inch up in the air over the mount hole - its pivoting on the brake pedal and bearing tube (the big bit at the end that the pedal stop is mounted on). Like I said if I 'bend' the board (and that why I said the wooden one was more accomodating since its easier to bend), I can almost get it to touch but by then the brake pedal is depressed around half an inch.

Richard

Remove the screw and mount on the lh side. Board looks to be too far to the right and and too close to the pedal (ie it should fit further behind the pedal) Try to get the position good. Then lets see where the mount screw holes are located. I am wondering if the hole locations are off or if there was somrething else that was moved in the car.


M

Mark,

If you look at the first picture I had only the rh screw attached and I couldn't get the lh side anywhere near the mounting hole you can see - I tried to force it in fact and it popped the cover plate off even though it is screwed in! I do wonder if there is something odd about the car. The board would mount perfectly if the pedal cluster wasn't getting in the way!! Thats why I actually checked under the car and at the firewall to see if it appeared to have been moved backwards perhaps. It looks absolutely stock though.

I think the interference with the gas pedal is because the pedal cluster is pushing the board to far back and into that pedal. The board would fit perfectly if I cut away the lower section by the bottom of the brake over to the gas pedal Maybe I'll try to cut the wooden board and try that.

Richard

A few minutes with the saw and I removed that lower section of the board and it now fits straight in. Notice that the bearing tube end is actually in the plain of the board - thats what was interfering and causing all the problems. So is the board mounting too far forward, or is the pedal box to far back?

R

Richard,

It's a little hard to tell by your pics, but it looks like the brake pedal stop is cocked towards the back of the car
The stop rubber should be close to 90 deg with the floorboard

maybe the bolt for the brake stop is missing or broken of (it's behind the clutch pedal pivot)

The nut is in place and the geometry looks like yours. However, the whole pedal cluster is tilted back and thats why the stop looks angled back. The front of the cluster - where the MC fits is quite raised up - I can get my fingers underneath the cluster at the front quite easily. It all looks normal but maybe the whol thing is bent somehow. After I put the wooden board on, I can lay a ruler across the outside face and that stop mount still sticks out a good 1/4" above the face (and thats the outside face, so it was really pushing against the inside face!). If the cluster was mounted flat (like in your photo), it would all fit.

R

Weird...
Loosen the nuts on the MC and see if you can move it down

That is F'd up. I wonder how the MC clears the cross bar for the front suspension ??

Shoot a pick with the splash pan off pointing up towards the MC.


[B]

All looks OK...

Sorry about the focus...

The rod is properly seated?

What is up with that... seems like the whole shooting match is forward..


Please remove that piece of pinestraw, that is one of my pet peaves.



M

I don't like the looks of the master, it seems the lines are not hooked up in the usual fashion.
The cluster must sit flush with the floor, no question there.
I'd be yanking the cluster out of there first and seeing why it does not fit properly.

So the cluster should be flush with the floor from the two bolts through the floor, and follow the contour around to the two studs that the MC hangs on? As I said, there is a triangular gap where the floor turns into the firewall. I'll try to take a picture.

Might be worthwhile for me to go and eyeball another car just to compare. I'll also check the MC connections.

R

Pull the cluster. lets see what is in there. Shoot some pics. Now is a good time to replace the shift bushings. Cheap too.


M

your wish is my command....

I pulled the cluster and took some pictures. I couldn't see in all the crud and no one mentioned that there is actually nearly 1/2" of possible variation in the position of the pedal cluster. The lower alignment areas (on the studs through the floor) are actually grooves rather than holes. (see the first picture).

In my case the studs were positioned at the very front of the grooves - which puts the pedal about 1/2" further back than they could be - and hence (I think) my problem.

and the reason I think is because of two things.
1) The firewall end of the cluster is distorted. I hope it shows in this picture but the part that touches the firewall is not flat

and (2) it looks like the firewall at this point is actually bent - maybe it had an impact at some point in its life

I hope this shows up...

...inside view....

looks pushed in 1/4 to 1/2" huh?

So...

Considering that aesthetics are not important, should I just reassemble as is and consider it withing tolerance (since the studs still fit through the hole). Or should I try to 'massage' the firewall and the cluster end a little to grab back some adjustement. I can live with my cutaway pedal board rather than Engman's masterpiece. Is there any downside?

Thanks again for the advice,
Richard

Yep.

My 2cents is always the same 2cents: Fix it right. Get a drift and You will be far more satisfied when you're done (and you get to use that shiny new pedal board!)

Shannon, your avatar looks like a clown that was in a short film a couple years ago. Is that where it came from?

No, it's really me! It was for a scavenger hunt game I play in a couple of times a year.

The Game

Obvious answer to a stupid question - I don't know why I even asked

I will go and bash it a bit...

Richard

Yep - its pushed in.... time for .

I am betting that the brakes will feel better as well .

M

I was able to regain about 1/4" or so (as measured where the studs come through the grooves in the bottom of the cluster), which reduced the brake pedal freeplay accordingly. I am still some way from getting the pedal board on.

I need a better drift so I can actually hammer with some leverage. Its almost impossible to get to these places because of the roll hoop which really restricts access. I'll see what I can get hold of tomorrow morning

Richard

Well, that about settles what the problem is. Now the solution. I would be thinking about using a small bottle jack to push the wall back where it is supposed to go. The metal will be weakened by the accident, and the fix. This wall has been found to be weak anyway. I would be looking at adding a reinforcement plate between the MC and the wall.

It sure looks like the cluster needs a rebuild. You can use the original plastic bushings, or aftermarket brass/bronze/whatever. Twenty years ago I used a brass set, but they were a little loose, and I didn't really like them.

Is the rubber boot off of the end of the MC wet in any way? Usual failure of the MC was to leak past the back seal into the boot. Typical life of an MC used to be 7 to 10 years.

I had thought of a jack but I need to brace it against something to get the force at the right place - any suggestions?

The cluster already has bronze bushings. Most things on this car have been rebuilt sometime in the last 10 years or so.

There is no leakage in the MC boot.

Richard

I would use the crossbar (front seat support) but spread the force around using a 4x4 or similar. You may need to go back to the engine wall also. Just spread the force around, you don't want to create a new problem. Hopefully your jack can work on its side.

Do you have any idea how the damage was caused? There should be evidence elsewhere.

I don't think the crossbar is a strong as the firewall. I bashed at it for several hours and was able to flatten it a bit more but not enough to get the new pedal board on - it still overlaps by maybe a 1/4 inch.

I needed to get things back together so I could work on the carbs, so I reassembled it all for now and got the car running last night.

I still have a dubious temp guage, it reads around 120 but doesn't go any higher and I can't believe that, so I will fix that and then try to play at carb balancing.


Thanks for the help,
Richard