Thinking about an all wheel drive transplant in my 914. It would be failry simple set up. Bolt a v8 (ls1) to the existing rear transaxle. Add an additional front transaxle and suspension to the front. Connect the front transaxle via a torque tube to the FRONT of the v8. Hence the rear of the crank powering the rear transaxle and the front of the crank powering the front axle.

It would still keep the car light. Become nearer to a 50/50 weight ratio. And possibly be able to withstand a strong engine using weaker transaxles?

My question is what kind of stress would this put on a v8. I am wondering about crank strength and torsional vibrations. Any answers/ideas appreciated.

All Wheel Drive setups (like the subaru) use a 3rd center differential. The problem you will have is that during cornering the radiuses that the four wheels take are all slightly different, so you will probably run in to some serious tire wear issues if you use it on high friction surfaces a lot (i.e. the street).

The stress caused by the front and rear wheels wanting slightly different speeds will be born by the crankshaft of the V8, btw. I would not expect this to snap it, but I wouldn't be able to tell you what problems you should expect, other than you should expect some, and possibly lots.

Shifting would be another problem. If you missed with one gear box, the results would be instantly not pretty at all. You would also need a way of driving two clutches.

The closest thing I can think of to what you are talking about was on Fifth Gear (in the US) a couple of weeks ago- they had a Lotus 7 replica with two 1100cc bike engines - one powering the front wheels and one powering the rear. This gets rid of your mechanical linkage issues, and since bikes come with sequential boxes - you just have two push-pull changers next to each other. It's perfectly okay to shift them at different times, it's just that you end up in different places on the torque curve on the two motors.

Another problem you will likely run into with the 914 is that the front suspension is not even close to being setup for driveshafts or driven wheels - I wouldn't know where to begin to think about it.

Now - One thing I do think might be possible is to flip an entire subaru drivetrain around the other way and stick it in a 912/911. There does need to be a solution to running the whole thing in reverse, but motors can be made to do that using different cam shafts, and it may (unlikely tho) be possible to flip some pinion gears to get the desired effect.

the 911/912 idea is a good one. al you need is a torque tube coming out of the (in this case) front of the transaxle to go to a second transaxle up front..

this solution... one clutch, one gearbox, and one extra differential.

how you get a drive sahft out the rear of a transmission? i dunno. but im pretty sure this is what the factory did on their awd cars

I agree.. my wife's Subaru (1987 wagon) has part time 4wd... It has no center differential, and a button on the shifter that basically locks the rear wheels into the front. If you turn it on while on a hard, dry surface, tight turns are impossible. It's like driving with the parking brake on.

It also seems like you would need a second flywheel of similar moment of inertia on the front of the v8, to not break the crankshaft... maybe not tho.

The front of the 914 between the wheels has almost no room for a transaxle, you'd probably have to cut everything out and go with a tube frame.

It can probably be done, but I don't think it will be easy, simple, or light. Might be cheaper to just transplant the drivetrain out of a Lamborghini Diablo VT

I forgot the speed differences from the front and rear of all wheel drive cars. This could possibly be addressed using a fluid coupler between the front and rear transaxle. But I am not sure if it would be optimum or not. I know some run them on "off-road" transfer cases to be able to run on pavement.

Shifting and clutch adjustment would be a big deal....that would take some serious engineering....

I do like the idea of two separate engines as well....someday I would like to build something like that to.....hmmmmm I wonder if I could get two ls1 engines....hehe...that would be crazy...anyway..

The 914 front suspension would have to be chucked and traded/swapped with a front wheel drive car...most likely and audi or something that uses a similar transaxle....I am pretty sure there is a front wheel drive car that would accomplish this and not add more than a 300lbs....Now that I think about it, audi has some all wheel drive cars. I wonder if you could swap it around like you are talking about with the subaru as well. I like that idea to. My ideal car would have to handle some power though....at a minium 400hp/400tq. It would be nice to have something that could handle above 600/tq, be all wheel drive and still light (2500lbs)

My ultimate goal is 2.9second 0-60 times and be able to handle well at the same time .80+ g.

hmmmm I wonder how well it would work with a fluid coupler???

Think simple you guys.

Back in the early 80's there was a guy who put a Rabbit body on a 928 body if that makes sense? Basically, he merged the 2 cars together to make a V8 Rabbit.

Go find yourself an AWD Sub or Audi or whatever and a 914 donor. Start cutting up the AWD car until you are left with a pan/frame. then find someway to attatch the 914 to it.

Is that plan wacked or just awsome? <_<

you guys are f-ing crazy...

LOL

That would be cool to find.

while we're in fantasy land like some junior high schoolers, which supermodel/porn-star would you pick to be your passenger while driving this AWD 914???

1) completely cut out the rear trunk floor.
2) install a complete C4 setup

Easy peasy, and now you have a proper rear-engined Porsche...

Better yet just buy a C4 and put a LS1 in it. That would probaly be cheaper to do.

Bob

Cost? We don't care about cost!

Start with a 959. Twin turbos, AWD..all of the good stuff...

Bill Gates has one I think. Ask him!

I love it....

You guys made my day....I'll go pick up a 959 tomorrow.


ohh...and the passenger would be Christy.

Now that we've gotten a little goofy, how about this setup?

The problem with AWD in a 914 is getting a drive shaft from the center diff to the front diff. That needs to go around the engine and through to the front of the car, withoug interfering with the passenger, the steering rack or anything else. It has been done - the Diablo, and I believe the Pagani Zonda have this type of setup - but it is a tricky one. I think the easiest thing would be to cut up a 914 and something else and moosh them together with a welder. The resulting car would probably be useless for almost everything though.

Subaru solves this problem by having a traditional prop shaft from the back of the main tranny - which houses the gearbox and the center and front diffs. Since the engine is mounted to the front, this is quite easy.,

I seriously think the best option is a gas-electric hybrid with 4 hub motors - one at each corner.

They did a version of the Elise that had this setup, and it was faster than the petrol one, AFAIK. It was also the only one that was legal in the US - until recently.

On-topic quiz...

Does anyone know what VT stands for?

Hint: it relates to the all wheel drive feature of the Diablo VT

if you were to take / make a flywheel-harmonic balancer for the front of of the sbc that would be the first step. it would need a coupler for a u- joint & yoke, then a 2peice drive shaft with u- joints. then remove all the gears but fifth or fourth to compensate for the motors torque band and shifting of the rear trans when in traffic.

Maybe

You need to look at the... uhh... I think Mid-90s Toyo All-Trak Celicas.

That said.... at least two points..

The front of the V8 is too high to couple the crank on that end, you'd have a really ugly shoulder heighth tunnel running thru the cockpit... wow... I like it already!

Unless you have a way to (as previously described) put a diff on the front end before the front box, and get variable traction to the front, uhh.... yuck.

Otherwise, YUCK!

I hate the way 4 wheel works, it drives like a yanking ugly modern saftey box Toyoskate.

You could do all this easy, if you build a 914 body over a custom tube frame.


M

Vicious Traction

Hey! I missed that..

Viscous coupling is the way most 'more than $70k' 4WD systems work, no?


M

We have a winner!

(Vicious, not viscous)

i like the idea of a v8 slung way in the back with a c4 drivetrain.... now taking donations

Here is a idea, what if you get a Audi 1.8, mount it sideways the trannsmission north south in the car, and run a drive line to a rear dif, and a front dif...

Ahh hell it'd never work. Can I have Carmen Electra as a Passenger please?

and that would be one of the more feasible suggestions of this thread...



and that would be one of the least.

Is Dennis Rodman in that little fantasy of yours?

how about run the front wheels off of hydrolics like a BOBCAT tractor? all your after is the increased traction not momentum . right?

why dont you make it a tread car like a tank!!

then you dont even have to worry about wheels!!!

LMAO!!!! Hilarious!

I thought this thread died a long time ago....hehe...oh boy...


Actually I like the idea of the hydraulic ran front end. About a year ago, I think it was suzuki came out with a motorcycle with a hydraulic ran front wheel. It wouldn't operate the front until the rear slipped. They said it was normal in dry pavement but in wet extremely solid.


I need to learn more about this Vicious traction

I'd say the way to do this would be a Hybrid with the front drive from a GM EV-1.
150 lbs with the reduction gear and diff, puts out at least 130 hp.



Then run whatever you want in the back. Let the regenerative braking charge the batteries back up.

Just don't ask me to help. It's too much work for me to do on my own car yet.

Control does get complicated, but you'll see more and more Hybrid sports cars doing this in the next decade since it actually makes sense for efficiency and power.

This all sounds interesting but I think I would go this route 500hp AWD, 3.2sec 0-60.
http://www.hpamotorsport.com/r32.htm

Then I would take all the decals/logos off the car!

They also have AWD conversions on theis site.

holy crap. 30k for nthe stage II kit. that makes it like a 60k car right? wouldnt you rather opt for the new 70k porsches seems like a better choice to me.

04' 911 C4 S, 0-60 5.1sec, MSRP ~85,000, Insurance, registration?

04' R32 + mods 0-60 3.2 sec MSRP~35,000, +mods 30,000, Insurance and registration based on purchace price.

~35% faster for ~25% less

I'm a porsche fan but I think the sleeper factor would be huge! Pulling up next to that 911 in a VW and then smoking him would be fun.

I would have to minimize the exhaust though.