1.8 engine with 1.7 everything else.....

Installed Pertonix, idles great. timmed....

and now the trottle resp is bad, and driving it is like. wtf... a bus?

my thoughts are vaccum? like maybe i had a issue and now its more becasue the dist is real now? and it needs more? vac adv...


or trottle body with that little screw? i forget what all the way in vs out is....

any thoughts? i need my 914 motor back.

Think McMark had a issue with a pertronix install. Something about a screw keeping the advance plate from moving. Just a guess.

Some of these kits definitely require filing on the Pertronix plate to allow full movement of the dizzy advance plates. I had to file mine.
Grab the plate and slide it...Does it freely move through the full range? (If you aren't sure what that range should look like, pull the Pertronix and see.)

Symptoms definitely suggest retarded timing.

the plate inside the dist does move. if thats what your talking about. when i instaleld it, everything seamed like a perfect fit. even the pert plate.

and....

"retarded timing" what are you saying... haha

sucks the car is my comuter! lame, i thought it would be a weekend swap, and done.

Not sure this would cause the problems but make sure your using a 3 Ohm Coil and increase the gap on your plugs to at least .040 to get a bigger hotter spark.
One other thought I learned the hard way, when you mess with the coil and distribtor recheck the plug wires connections at the Distributor cap and the coil. I unintentionally had a loose connection at the coil that took a couple weeks to finally find. Last suggestion call the Pertronix Tech for help 909-599-5955 and see if he can lead you to a fix.

I had to file down my pertronix plate thing for my advance plates to work fully. Look up McMark's article please, this may be your problem. Pretty easy to do once you don't file it first, and put it all together a dozen times, take all apart, read McMark's article, and file down the plates as noted, and reassemble.

I know it doesn't help the OP, but for those of you considering ditching your points - just get the Hot-spark.
No grinding, no gapping, no article to read - just put it in, adjust your timing and drive

It also doesn't hurt that it is a little more than 1/2 the price ($50).

just saying.....

thanks captain hindsight.... haha

i called pertronix, and they were like.. uh not sure.

i have a new pertronix 3o coil, new plugs, new wires, new cap/rotor.

my gap are not that high, i have them set to about 30-35 i cant remember.

and ill check the pert plate tonight if i get a chance.

I only had to check the gaps on my dual points...and button it up...never have problems.

ok guys, i am running on 2 cyl's.

1 and 2 are not firing.

and the other side plugs are dark soot black. they are brand new bosch copper plugs. but, made in russia. i was thinking maybe bad plugs? i was gonna try a swap but im thinking what else could it be. i cant see it being the pertronix because its dumb and would work or not. not only run one side.

or internal in the motor?

any thoughts?

i want a running 914 again! i have 2 down!!!

Back to basics...
Did it do any of this before you swapped the cap, wires, plugs and installed the Pertronix? I'd double check all the new parts, maybe put the old ones back on just to isolate the problem.
Mike

Check your firing order. If you swap 2 and 4, it will run without backfiring, but will have no power.

Simple way to verify the firing order on a 914 /4.

The right side plugs match the cap towers.

On the left side the front tower goes to the back plug, and the back tower goes to the front plug.

yes, that is all correct.

before all this, it would backfire, and it broke down and had a loud bang, and the points melted together.

i broke them apart, and filed them down and drove home, but it ran horrible. from then i was like, i am done with points forever.....


i was thinking about putting on the old rotor and cap.

Check the coil, and the little copper ground wire inside the distributor.

brand new coil, and i can check the ground. i already did, it was grounded. but is there anything to look for besides that?

and how would a ground make one whole side not go.

im afraid of a head cracked or something.....

Woha, red flag. Coil is grounded?? A coil grounds through the points, in your case pertronix switching. You should only have a switched +, tach on -, pertronix red to +, and pertronix black to -. The case of the pertronix should grounded through the dizzy.

no, inside the dist is grounded.

coil is like you said.

How did you time it? In a later post you say #1 is not firing? Maybe the timing is off.?
Tom

i timed it normal, though the fan key hole deal. and turned the dist to line up the fan mark.

i have the drivers side not running. 1 & 2. thats why im affraid it might be a head that is cracked. when its running the pass side is hot, drive side is cold, and I un plug'd the plugs, and nothing on 1 & 2.

i was also thinking it could be bad plugs, i was gonna try a swap tonight. the yare bosch made in russia plugs. i didnt know russia make anything ....

OK, my misunderstanding! When I think of timing, I think inductive timing light, and if #1 wasn't firing, how can the timing be correct. But your way of timing is static only, I believe, and you should use a timing light to get it timed closer. An inductive timing light also removes any doubt of being 180 off. If you didn't check that #1 cylinder valves were closed, then you could be 180 off. Maybe those plugs are bad, try putting in the old ones or swapping side to side and see if the problem follows the plugs.
Tom

yeah, sorry i thought you thought i was using a timing light. it would be really hard to see the fan mark with out one, even if i could blink really fast... haha

i used a timing light! haha

plugs and then i will let you guys know.

Oy, this is a comedy of errors. The problem is not the Pertronix. If you can get yourself back to ground zero before it was a "bus motor" I would recommend resetting.

I don't care if the come out with a new plug and play module called "nuclear fusion hot spark." It won't help performance. What you need is simple. Spark at the right time. Get that sorted first. (That includes proper plugs, gaps, wires to the right holes, etc., and a solid timing reference.)

OK, if you used an inductive timing light on #1, it was firing. The module is probably good. You have something wrong with those cylinders, plugs,valves, etc., something basic.
Tom

it was a better bus motor before i went pertonix. i think i just thought it was my points, but now i am thinking its something more. thats why i started a forum here. otherwise i would not even bother.

and if is a problem with the valves/cyl. i will prob give up on the car. i love the 914 so much. but the trans/engine is horrible. so old...

thats why i have a 71 going with a different route.

If it was a cracked head, it would still be getting hot.

im starting to think a head now. I just remembered last night there was a ton of air coming out of the drivers side.

so, my thoughts are now, cracked head or head gasket.

what do you guys think?

and now have to think if its worth it to re-build a 1.8.

or a gasket i would think would be easy, maybe do it with it still in the car?

thoughts? its a daliy driver. and just a fun little car.

and it was not hot on the top (tin), and i didnt let it run for very long for it to get kinda hot... but the other side was warm.

so, i swaped plugs and nothing, i think i might have a blown headgasket now, no compresion for plugs to fire.

anybody 2nd this notion?

if so, im gonna yank the motor and just take my time with it and go thru it.

you guys are the only guys i have to talk about this stuff.

Broomhandle,
Run a compression test on the motor. This will at least let you know if you have a broken head. I would follow up with a leakdown test. At least this way you can eliminate the head as the possible root of your problem.
Good luck,
Cesar

did you adjust the valves?

yeah, i was gonna do that before i pull.... but im like 95% sure.

i think its the head gask or head. there is so much air shooting out.....


and if i rebuild, is there something inexpensive to get my 1.8 a little more power?

everybody talks about the 96mm's

is it worth it?

A blown head gasket is loud and very noticeable. Like a blown exhaust gasket x 3.

frick then.

i heard a huge bang that it scared me in the lower drivers side.

has to be something with compression. and why would i feel a ton of air coming out the top of the drivers side?

then what else could it be?

i so hope its not a cracked head.

It makes a noise on each comp stroke. Do you have a functioning PCV valve. Was it backfiring before the loud bang. I've read (Paul's site on PCV valves) of explosions in the crankcase if it backfires thru TB/PCV and ignites fumes in the case, but don't know of it firsthand. Do the comp test then get back with us. If you know how to do the leakdown test, do it. Or we can tell you. Compression #'s will give us some direction.

a nasty backfire can fuch up your mps

Waiting for it to stop raining to do a compresion check. It was back firing, but so soft, and not very often before.

and i dont know about a leakdown test, il ldo a compression and go from there....

yes, do your comp test, first. if the #'s are good we won't bother w/ the leak down test. if they're off then we use a leak down test to determine what is at fault.

FYI...1.8L does not have an MPS Or a PCV valve.


Is it still stock FI?


If it is stock FI, and it backfired, it might be the air flow meter. A backfire can warp the flap to the point it sticks. When it sticks, the engine runs really rich.

Get a "Noid Light" and test the connection at each injector for proper pulses. Then using an automotive stethoscope, listen to each injector. You should hear them clicking.

If you don't see the light flashing, check the dropping resistors. They are prone to breaking wires inside the box.

When he said 1.8 with 1.7 "everything else" I just assumed he was referring to an efi swap...

I read this thread late but that was my first thought too...

I don't have an excuse. Just missed the LJet thing completely.

Compression test is fine (105 on each if thats fine). however, 2 non working Bosch plugs made in russia to blame. i have all cyls now, and i swear it still runs like crap. i think i need to work with timing again. and i have my old plugs in that were not that bad. need time to go get some plugs. thinking of NGK's

and yes, a 1.8 with a 1.7 D jet.

it ran ok before this Pertonics. just random bus motor. but i swear it is worse with the pertonix

im still not of the dark yet.....

and i shaved down the plate. didnt change anything. or if it did, its so slight.

Your out of the dark. Now, it's just going back over your timing, etc. Remember to gap your new plugs .040.

1.7, all rebuilt injectors maybe 4 months old. i listened before, thats whey they got rebuilt... haha


and it ran before pertonix....

it was the breakdown and the points melting together that started all this crap.....

yeah i need to mess with timing... i have the plugs at .035 will it really make a dif with .040? just curious. ill get new plugs and set it to 040....