Since it was going to be 75 and sunny here today, I decided to drive her to work. She ran great this morning and fired right up this afternoon, but when I started it, I heard a brief "whirring" sound, which I thought might be my fuel pump. I have been told that they can sometimes be heard, but I can't really hear mine.

Anyway, she ran great all the way home until I was getting off the highway exit ramp on the last leg of my commute (25 miles). I was in the middle of three lanes, and as I was slowing, I could just tell something wasn't right. The whirring was back and it sounded as if it were coming from the front, but it also sounded as if it was somewhat associated with engine speed. It was hard to hear, since I have a bursch, and I was surrounded by 20 other running vehicles. I had the clutch in, so I put it in neutral and let it out. That didn't really make a difference.

I tried revving it a bit, and that is when she started sputtering and finally died. I could not get her to start again. Luckily, the ramp had a decent grade, so when the light changed, I was able to slowly coast down the ramp, across the road and safely off to the side.

I sat for a couple of minutes thinking about possible causes.
- fuel pump - explains the noise
- overheated - possibly, but doesn't explain the noise. However, I backdated my exhaust, so my heater cables are a little short leaving the valves open a bit, and it was blowing HOT today. Granted, it was 75 ambient, but it still felt warmer than normal.
- fuel pump relay - brand new, not likely

After sitting for a couple of minutes, she fired right up again, but when I started to drive off, she began to sputter again and I shut it down, called AAA.

It is a stock '75 1.8 with stock l-jet with about 130k miles. All maintenance items are new - cap, rotor, wires, pertronix, fuel lines, fuel filter, air filter, etc. Gas if fresh, as I just put in 5 gallons this afternoon. Fired right up when we pulled it off the flatbed, and I drove it into my garage. I had to wait an hour and half for the truck, so I am sure that it had cooled down quite a bit.

Any other ideas?

Your problem sounds similar to fuel vapor lock. How full was the tank?.......just the fresh 5 gallons? Maybe the warm ambient temps we had today in Cincy (I heard 80 degrees)+hot air blowing on the engine+gas that was blended for winter temps.

Initially, it sound like a fuel delivery problem.

Paul

Hey Paul!

I had a little less than 1/4 tank before I added the 5. I am planning on installing a sway bar soon, so I didn't want to fill it up, since I will need to drain it.

My pump is up front, under the tank, so I kinda ruled out a vapor lock. However, your fuel blend theory might have some merit.

I thought it was vapor lock until I saw you had a 75 and your pump was up front. The longer we have our teeners eventually it will ride the flatbed sometime. I know mine has! The gas blend may be an issue. I just don't know.

Fuel Filter?

Brand new. Fuel pump relay is brand new as well.

You got a loose! Cracked, or broken air hose. I've encountered the same thing in my 1.8 L-Jet.
Check the following:
Oil filler tower to the throttle body boot
AAR to plenum hose and elbow ( very common to split open and not easily visible)
TB boot to AAR
Other hoses that connect to plenum. The smaller loses easily crack and leak

Thanks, Jim. All are brand new except the 22mm bigguns that are not included in the AA kit. I need to get a automotive stethoscope and listen around for vacuum leaks. It smells like it might be running rich, so I am guessing I have some amount of leakage.

I know you replaced your vacuum hoses. I replaced mine too and found that I had to add clamps on some connections. How long has it been since your replaced your air-intake hoses?

Best way to find the loose hose for me was to disconnect one hose at a time. I have a set of rubber bottle stoppers from Home Depot. For example, disconnect AAR to plenum, insert a stopper into plenum hole; disconnect AAR to TB boot, put a rubber stopper into the boot. Start engine, see if that was the cause. Do this for each hose. In some cases, tape can be used instead of a stopper.

The last time, there have been many, I had an air leak the metal tube that connects the oil tower to the TB boot was not tight enough.

Good luck, new hoses eliminate one possible issue. Look fo leaks at the pts of connection. And verify the AAR boot is it cracked, this used to be my most common air leak

I have so many piggie back stories on flat beds with all my damn cars. I must say, the teener has had more rides home than any of them. LOL

There is a second possible cause. Dual relay wiring. If the wire from the DR to the fuel pump is not making good contact, engine will quit. The base where the wires ( yell, brn, blk, red) connect slipped down just a tad. I used a zip tie around the base and DR. Another DR weakness is the ground wire from the DR to the engine case. That wire may come loose or have deteriorated. The DR has to have a ground.

If your wires are tight and you want to test the DR, I have info on how to test. I can send it by email

Do you mean the 4 plenum to intake hoses? If so, brand new as well. However, I did find that the intake runners did not line up with the plenum as squarely as I would like, so there could be some potential leakage there. Will need to check.

Jim, it would be great if you could send that test info - kesterle@gmail.com

I believe that most (3 or 4) of my previous flatbed encounters were due to the old DR that I replaced. It was a metal bodied unit that looked original to the car, and I replaced it as it was a possible source of my problems. Since then, I have driven between 500 - 1000 miles with no issues until today.

HOWEVER - the only DR replacement available now is a plastic unit with ridges and prongs that will not allow the stock plug on my wiring harness to fully engage. Instead of modifying the DR, I trimmed material off of the harness plug so that it would fully engage. A zip-tie would not be a bad idea.

Thanks,
Ken

..."and" you have a computer virus.

Thanks to all who have replied.

The one thing still thumping my frontal lobe is the whirring sound. Vacuum leaks and electrical connections would not cause that, so my new question is:

What are the symptoms of a failing fuel pump, and do they tend to go out all at once with a bang, or slowly with a whimper?

My fuel pump issues are varied and non-914 related, however, the electrical, in tank pump on my former 1991 Cherokee did whir/make some kind of whir-ish noise before it went bad. Not sure if that is helpful

Email sent with diagnostic test and link to: http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?show...c=235816&hl

I had posted pics to show how I tested the DR
And, I added dome info regarding the throttle body boot

Check for a restriction in your fuel system before the pump. Sounds like your pump is running out of fuel. Most pumps have s significant change in tone when they run out. The fact that it runs a little and then quits kinda indicates it's starving.

Possibly the mesh screen inside the tank or pump?

Easy test...

Disconnect the fuel hose in the rear and stick it in a bucket and jump start the pump. See if it will pump full stream at pressure after several minutes. Do it with the same quantity of fuel you had when it quit.

If that passes, let us know since this is creative guessing without being there.

like paul i think your issue could be in the mesh strainer located inside the tank on the outlet tube. have you ever inspected it? with the tank drained you should be able to see the strainer while looking down the tank fill opening with a flashlight.

k

Thanks, Paul. The strainer is also brand new. The tank is nearly spottless on the inside, so unless I have gotten some REALLY bad gas recently, I don't think that is it.

I did replace the soft lines under the tank, so it is possible that one of the lines is getting pinched or kinked. However, it seems that would be a constant issue, rather than intermittent, unless temperature and/or fuel blend could cause a vapor lock with a partially blocked line. I suppose it is possible.

Last year I had to replace my fuel pump because it became intermittent. I think the major cause was related to the new fuels with ethanol which caused the pump to rust up internally. It didn't make the sound you are experiencing but when it was failing you could not here it pressurizing when the key was first turned on.
Jack

I hate to be the one to maybe suggest something simple.... but are you running the old style fuses or have you updated? I had a fuel issue becasue my old style fuses were not making good contact. Upgraded now.

Great thought. I have an Engman panel, but I have not installed it yet. Not sure why, as I have had it for probably 2 years now. I might do that this weekend. Thanks!

Regardless I would do the volume and then pressure test at the rear of the car. just to weed that part out.

Sooooo, Ken, did you ever figure out your problem and fix it?

Paul

I'm pretty sure it was a failing fuel pump. My 1.8L made that same whirling sound before ultimately quitting.

Given everything, I am 90+% positive it is the fuel pump, so I ordered one from Pelican last week. It should arrive early this week, so I will be ready for the spring get-together we discussed.

I need to get with Thomas and pull something together.

Ken

I had the same thing happen to me......change the pump, wamo...good to go.

One more vote for checking for fuel contamination in the system. Two weekends ago I spent time with a friend's 912 that was also having running issues. To make a long story short his fuel had completely turned ove the last two months into something that looked like iced tea complete with tea leaves to complete the analogy. I was amazed how quickly today's fuel mixtures goes bad.

After draining all the old slimy fuel, cleaning all filters and running clean premium fuel through the system before connecting the carbs again seemed to do the trick. Something to think about this time of year.

Hope the pump solves your issue. Last year, 3 bad batches of fuel. Same symptons. Gas only sat in the car for several months with Stabil in it. Ran ok for a few miles, then bucked, stalled, etc. If your pertronix is failing, you might experience cut outs like that and loss of power too.

I really think that it is the pump. The entire fuel system - filter, lines, etc. were replaced last year. The gas was brand new, as in 30 minutes old. What clinches it for me is that I could hear a whirring sound coming from up front, and there is only one thing that could be.

After having rebuilt, replaced or refreshed damn near everything else last year, replacing the fuel pump is cheap insurance.

Thanks, all!

As I stated in an early post, a volume and pressure test at the engine bay will determine if the pump is good or not as well as any kinked hoses etc.. I would do that test before spending $$ on an unknown. It sounds like it is fuel related though.