Hi Bruce,

Many of us enjoy your significant contributions to Excellence and other venues in support of the humble 914. I have reviewed the November 2004 914 Market Update and was encouraged to read about the awakened interest in the 914 model. I concur, that at this point in time, it seems that the 914 has become much more respected and sought-after in recent years. Thank you for your continued enthusiastic support of the model.

A 914 devotee, I am also curious about the lack of any mention in the article of the highly-regarded 1974 914 Can Am Limited Edition. 1000 cars were built and imported to the USA, making them more rare than the 914/6, yet much more available than the M471 cars mentioned. Documented recent resale prices for clean but not pristine examples hover in the range of $10K to $12K…for a four-cylinder 914 no less. Because it was a factory production car and not a prototype, I think it would be of service to the 914 community to mention the 914 Limited Edition cars.

All available information about the 1974 914 Can Am Limited Edition cars including a Registry of located cars can be found on my website at this link:

http://members.rennlist.com/914_canam/

May I propose the following text for your hopeful inclusion with future 914 Market Updates, for your consideration:

“The 1974 914 Can Am Limited Edition was standard equipped with most optional factory equipment including specially-designed color schemes, side stripes and front air dam. 1000 cars were built, making them three times more rare than the 914/6. Conceived to promote Porsche racing successes in the Can Am racing series, the cars are highly-prized by all 914 owners.”


Sincerely,


Jeff Bowlsby
San Jose, CA

Good letter, send it. I don't know about "highly prized by all" though. SORRY!

If you do send the letter (good idea) include a pic of a Grasshopper model!

Geoff

send it!

oh, and while you're at it, also ask him about the value of a certain stolen prototype car ...
Andy

definetly send it. it cant hurt, it could only help =]

Hi Jeff

Definitely send it. LE's need some advocacy, and you're the man to do it.

i dont know about rare either.ive all ready cut up one, i know was a le.and i think i have a black one sitting here.(i havent inspected it yet)im the sanford and son of 914.
when it reaches me it means no one wanted it,or it was rusted out pretty bad (i havent got a six in my yard yet)
dont take me wrong i think le,s are pretty kool
looking.if you like em who cares what other people think.back in the late 80's and early 90's,i dont know how many times someone called my 914 a "volkswagen"or a "poor mans porsche" i like it so screw you was usally my awnser. now i get calls from all over the world from people looking for parts for this car.it definatly has grown alot in popularity.great little car.it allways was to me even when it wasnt a very popular car

That is well thought out. I'd go ahead with it.

DaveP

If only 1000 were made, and 3x as many 914/6s were made (both documented facts), then it's rarer than the 914/6 by definition. The point of dispute isn't rarity, but rather desirability. The Sixes cost more and are rising in price faster than any of the Fours because of desirability, not rarity. The two often go hand in hand, but not always. As another example, I used to have an Alfa Romeo Berlina, a car as nearly as rare in the US as the 914 LE (roughly 1500 imported). However, they were basically $500 cars you couldn't give away sometimes, because they were so undesirable in the US.

This isn't to say the 914 LE isn't desirable, only that rarity does not always equal desirability.

um yeah what he said
with all that aside send the letter is what i shoulda said.wrote very well .

Good Letter, Id suggest editing it to alternatly suggest a Small artical profileing the LE and the contraversey surrounding the mysterious Green beastie
You can offer up your car for the Photo op. But Youd have to find a equally nice Creamsicle.

Better yet, just send him a link to this thread. Bruce is an old 914-6 guy, and he loved the cars. He still has a 914-6, in fact. Oh wait, it's a 9-EIGHT-6...

His public email is Bruce1485@aol.com

That is true. How many Yugos were imported and how many are currently desired?

But, overall, Geoff's letter is a good one and should be sent to Excellence. Along with a color picture of the elusive grasshopper.

if you send a link to this thread heres another image.

I think it's a great idea to send Bruce the information on the LE. It certainly needs to be mentioned in his 914 market update. The thing I like most about the LE is what it represents and the fact that Porsche decided to use the 914 to promote it. Winning the CanAm series in 1973 was a great achievement. It would have been nice if Porsche would have did something to the LE to improve it's performance over other 2 Liter 914's. The fact that it's mainly just a unique color combination may not convince everyone that it is worth more than a non-LE in similar condition. This theory would be the same for my Sahara Beige 914. I would assume my friend Joe's Phoenix Red '74 2 Liter with 22,000 original miles would be valued the same as my Sahara Beige '73 @Liter with 22,000 original miles.

By the way, only 1788 914-6's were imported to the United States, not counting 914114.

Jeff, send the letter. In the worst case he'll think you're a whacko for being an expert in a very small part of the already small 914 universe. Like the old saw, "We'll know more and more about less and less until we know all there is to know about nothing."

if i knew *anything* about "nothing" i would be rich & famous by now ...

Andy

Are the Black/Yellow Bumble bee ones LE only cars?

If so, I know of one that isn't on the list. The owner just put it on the rotissery for a full restoration.

If the car came from the factory with a black body with yellow bumpers/valances/wheels, then it is an LE. This color combination was only used on the LE's.

Absolutely send it!



I'd like to see that, but I respectfully disagree. It seems to me that the 4 cylinder cars have appreciated a good bit more over the last 12-24 months or so than the 6 cylinders cars have.

The question is what do you mean by "clean". Bruce usually states that "beyond excellent" prices are subject to condition.

My problem with Bruce's valuations is how he can come up with the hugely inflated prices for what he calls "poor" condition cars. We all know that poor condition 914s usually sell for less than $2000 (frequently much much less).

Yea, look on craigslist and there are always a half dozen cars at $1500 and below and that is just the bay area.

i agree, but i suspect that the bay area is an anomoly in that respect. 914's grow on trees out here. not so in most other states.

I don't see LEs in comparable condition going for any more than 73/74 2L cars. Non-LE 73/74 2L cars in superior original condition are also going for $10K+.



I don't think so. Cars go for at most a 25% premium in the midwest and on the east coast. We can easily look at ebay and see what cars are selling for nationally. Bruce says something like $5K for a 914 in poor condition and we all know that is just way far away from reality.

Actually, why doesn' t Bruce/Excellence use ebay numbers? It's a national market where 5-15 cars each week get sold. He could easily send out a survey email to the buyer/seller asking if they would like the car included in the market update valuation. They could be asked to submit high resolution pictures to document the condition and the sale of course can be verified.

Anyway, who cares what Excellence says? Maybe we can all sell our cars for over-inflated prices some day?

Sweet Jeff! You are a wealth of knowledge!

Let's all email Bruce! Oh Maybe not... don't want to poke him in the eye with it. But I know he would appreciate the read.

OK, I think I'm there...

Thanks for the comments guys...I will send the link to this thread to Bruce, maybe he will even respond and check into the 914Club now and then!

By 'clean'...there have been a couple of 914 LE cars that sold in the $10-12K range...and they were nice, but had issues atypical of a concours car. One Bumblebee had a cracked windshield, carbs, an aftermarket exhaust and other wear and nits, it was an older restoration. Not a concours car and I suspect this car would have maybe reached $8-9K if it were not an LE. But is was an LE and sold for $12K last year.

Another very nice car was the Creamsicle posted earlier in this thread and it had a few issues too...$10K was the purchase price. Steve Gaglione went through this car for its new owner and corrected its issues after purchase. Mild rust in the battery tray and front truck were amongst its issues. Both these cars were what I referred to as 'clean, not pristine', I don't know how Bruce would classify them.

Can there be any doubt about the 911RS heritage of the 914LE cars?

and the Grasshopper...

Jeff:

I saw Bruce at the JWE "show" on Sunday - I was going to talk to him about the LE but did not get the chance. I strongly recommend you send your letter to him - I think he would appreciate your input as I do know he really likes the 914.

I think Bruce would call them "good" rather than "excellent" or maybe between good and excellent. In any case those sales are off the chart!

Hey...Bruce has responded to me off FOrum...so I post his response for yupour edification...He is a great guy. $14,500...WOW...top price ever paid for a 914 LE!

"From: Bruce1485@aol.com
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 22:22:09 EDT
Subject: Re: 914 Limited Edition cars
To: bowlsby@sbcglobal.net


Hi Jeff,

Have dealt with the limited editions several time in the readers reports:

1974 914 Lirnjted Edition 2.0. 117,000 miles. Creamsicle and Phoenix Red. Complete disassembled restoration. Rebuilt motor. Interior is in good condition with exterior being in excellent condition. Car came with original laminated window sticker. All extra options sold at no charge on this model, Le., center console, sway bars, etc. Was able to purchase car for $8,400.

Response: We estimate the 1974 2.0 liter to be running from a low of about $4,700 to $5,350 for one in good condition and $7,150 for an excellent example, and we would allow an additional 10% for the limited edition for $7,865.

_________________________
Here is a submission for your reader’s sales report. 1974 914 limited edition 2.0 bumblebee. 107,000 miles. The body is straight with only several door dings and one small dent behind the drivers side door (see photo). Rust is limited to the rear truck and is very minor. The paint is horrible...someone used spray paint as touch up paint. The interior is very nice with the exception of a missing radio and missing lid for the center console. The brakes are poor but the car runs good (I drove it home at 70mph on the freeway). The tires are extremely dried and cracked (believed to be last changed in the seventies), but are on yellow Mahle 15" rims. Service records are limited to several gas station receipts from Mt. View, Ca. in 1977. It seems to be a bay area car based on its limited rust etc. Purchased for $800.00.

Response: We estimate the 1974 914s to be running from a low of about $4,700 to $5,350 for one in good condition and $7,150 for an excellent example, we would also allow an extra 10% because the car is a limited edition, so it sounds like you got a deal.

1974 914 2.0 Limited Edition/ Can Am, Light Ivory /Rally Red. One of less than 1000. $25,000 spent on a thorough recent restoration. Light ivory Glassurit over bare metal. Fresh interior upholstery. New carpet, dash cap, NOS sunvisors and seat belts. All new OEM rubber. Powder paint on trim items and engine sheet metal/ lid grill. Engine was rebuilt by a previous owner and was resealed during restoration. Pre buy exposed excellent compression. Tranny was rebuilt during restoration. All shift bushings were replaced. Brakes were done during restoration.
Extra items include 19mm master, braided brake lines, koni shocks, kenwood CD, Momo wheel, extra dynamat sound deadening material, H4s, fuel pump is relocated to front of car. Car has won it's division at PCA regional concour's two years running and placed consecutivly 2nd and 5th best of show. This car looks, smells, and drives like new!! Advertised at $15,500 SOLD FOR $14,500. Yep, It's really just a 4 banger!!

Response: We show the 914 2.0 Liter running from a low of about $4,150 to $4,700 for one in good condition and $6,250 for an excellent example. It is obvious the car that you bought is something special so the fair market price for your car was what you, the buyer and the seller agreed upon. This car is a lot like the 911S that the reader recently sold for $29,000 and then took me to task for valuing the 911S models too low. What he doesn’t say is that he just spent $45,000 restoring his 911S so that he could sell it for $29,000. These cars are obviously exceptions to the norm. You wanted the car and were willing to pay $14,500, the seller didn’t want the car anymore and was willing to loose $10,000 of what he had invested to sell it.

The cars are nice for sure and an excellent example will pull a premium, but they are not a 914/6 and will never be as valuable.

Bruce"

Hmmm.. Im not sure I necessarily agree, If # of unit produced is the criteria on which the value is based (IE: exclusivity) then the LE's should at leat be thier equal. Sounds Like Bruce has a bit of 6cyl bias

I completely agree Martin...For two 914s in comparable condition, the Six should always be worth more than any four...

But the interesting thing about values for the LE cars is the margin they seem to have over the standard 914s in comparable condition.

I dont wish to afford a six...so a cool unique Four meets my interests just fine... For me the quality of the 914 experience is mostly about condition, not HP. I know I dont represent the majority of 914 owners...but I would take any four cylinder 914 in great condition over a poor condition six for the same cost anyday. Yes even a 75 1.8L car.

In alot of ways I am concerned about the 914s increase in value in recent years. I guess its inevitable, but I really wish they would not appreciate and stay affordable. When they get expensive...we all lose...well at least until we sell out.... If things keep going the way they have been lately, by 2010 a set of front lenses will be $250 and a roller will be $5000.

The good Mr. Anderson has been most helpful when I have gotten wrapped around the axle with conflicting information.
His replies have been timely and to the point. I figure he is a busy man and use the resource sparingly.

Not to be a curmudgoen, but the LE is (IMO) more comparable to the USA 911 Carrera of the middle 70s.....a paint job & a few dodads. 10% sounds like a more than adaquate assesment.

I like hp

But JP ... the stock 2.0 /6 was rated at what ..115 ? offset that with the add weight of the /6 ...?

Rarity and desireabilty is what determines price. LE are worth that 10% more above a standard 914 IMHO. Now a "Grasshopper" would be worth even more as how many exist????How many were produced?
914/6 will always be worth more as they cost more in the first place because of the cost of the six engine and the extra trim they came with.
I met one LE owner who looked for 5 years for a grasshopper LE before ending up with a Creamsickle.

Me, I'd take a six any day over a LE cuz I like HP.
Now what would be fun would be to paint a six like a LE!

Geoff

Beauty and value are in the eye of the cash holder, to paraphrase. If you like the LE, it's worth more to you than the /6's, but I'm guessing folks want the 914 driving experience with the 911 horsepower and sound.

(And Jeff, thanks for the pic of my car in your original post for this thread!)

It'll always be a matter of preference over qty when it comes to setting a resale. The question for me is, how do you place a value on fun driving? Is it $/smile?

john

I'm glad you sent the letter.

Since you have an special interest in the cars, are you tracking sale prices & stuff that we can send to Bruce for his historical database?

Additional information posted by such a respected expert as Bruce Anderson may get LE cars some special recognition when it comes to PCA valuation certificates.

Good work.

-Rusty

Oh yeah...So far recent documented 914 LE sales for high quality cars include:

One car at $14.5K
One car at $12K
Couple cars at ~$10K
Few more at ~$8K
then there are others...