My 2056 w/ D-jet has almost 200 miles on it, i have been tweaking little things here and there. Today I was trying to adjust the TPS. I turned the ignition on and slowly opened the throtle till i heard 20 clicks and then i tightened it down. Got on the freeway and seemed to run a bit better (less bucking) but then i drive 30 min and starts jerking like crazy



I am loosing at least 1 cylinder under steady cruise and pick it back up on accleration. I get to the end of the freeway and i cant even idle, feels like running on 3 but still has full power. I also hear a knocking sound.

shut it down. put the tps back where it was, pulled the plugs. BLACKer than black. Wipe them off and start it back up. Engine is idling rough and i smell gasoline strong from the exhaust.

I pulled the wire off the head temp sensor and grounded the lead to the negative side of the battery, and I think it helped. I also adjusted the idle screw and the knob on the ecu till it seemed like it smelled less like gasoline.

Here I am, firing on all 3 with full power, engine pulls strong but a lot of misfiring due to rich fuel i believe


what the hell is going on here???

Whats the fuel pressure?

Remedy this NOW, else the rich running on the fresh rings, pistons and cylinders will really suffer. Fuel is a solvent, not a lubricant and NOTHING is worse during break in than running rich. I'd prefer lean over rich at start up.

Verify fuel pressure and buy an AFR meter to stop the guess work.

fuel pressure is steady at 29

disconnect the TPS and see what happens

Please explain,

disconnect the vacume line and plug it?

Yes on the tps. You need to set it with an ohm meter.

Just pull the molex conn off. the rubber covered 4-5 pin connector that plugs onto the TPS. It will run w/o it. If it improves go back over your adjustment again.

Sounds like my issue when my points went bad last week are you running points?

electronic, no points.


I was reading on the search about similar symptoms, and i read somthing i dont understand. I read that if you spin the engine backwards you risk popping the mps.



I just did a valve adjustment yesterday using the krusty method, with the plugs out i was rocking the car in fith with my hands to adjust the valves, i am sure i was turning the motor backwards and forewards.

Please tell me this is not a possibility.

Not a possibility. Really.

No vacuum line at the TPS.

Have you checked the MPS?

The Cap'n

oh tps i was thinking mps.

The mps holds vacume no problem for 5 min

Adjust the TPS using the procedure on Pelican with an ohm meter. I'll assume you weren't adjusting the mps.

ECU knob only affects the idle circuit, so set it half way to start with.

If you smell raw gas at the exhaust pipe then one of your injectors may be leaking or spraying too much. After having my old set cleaned I had one that didn't spray, it streamed. That cylinder didn't fire since the plug was too wet with fuel.

Of course vac leaks cause rich running. Disconnect everything but the mps and plug the hoses. Start it up and connect the hoses one by one to see what changes. A vac gauge between the mps and the intake plenum is also helpful. Should have at least 15"hg at idle (900 rpm). Maybe a little different for a 2056.

Lots of topics on rich running here. Use this search:
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=00240834...2%3Aajvfxschcgc

When I smell gasoline, I think "leak." I recently posted where an injector was leaking so badly fuel actually ran out the tail pipe.

A very rich AFM creates acrid exhaust. The kind that burns your eyes, but not so much the smell of raw gas.

If you have a leaking injector be sure to check the sump. As another post has already pointed out. Liquid gas can get into the cylinder. From there it will contaminate the oil.

at work
Work all day tommorow, wont get home till 10:30ish.
Then Hershey Sat Morning


Looks like I will be there in the subaru. First year my car will miss it



Will update after the show

Joe I am gonna
OSS your stereo, seems like this happens every tear before Hershey. Last year you had an issue and you didn't get is solved until the early morning, you worked all night but made it. I am sure you will again with the teener.

Best of luck .

Joe I am gonna
Miss your stereo, seems like this happens every year just before Hershey. Last year you had an issue and you didn't get is solved until the early morning, you worked all night but made it. I am sure you will again with the teener.

Best of luck .

Check the connector/wires at the intake air temp sensor. If those break or come unplugged it'll go rich.

I will check everything again tonight. But the more immediate problem now is not that it runs too rich, it is the fact that with new plugs and everything put back to the way it was 2 days ago. It does not want to run at all now.

I turn the key and it starts right up, no idle at all and billows white smoke with popping and horrible misfiring.

I am afraid that my too rich problem has already created a much bigger problem. If I had any time to work on it, I would.

I might get 2 hours tonight and 2 hours tommorow, to diagnose some more.


1) AFR was already checked and holds vacume
2) all wires from Harness have been disconnected and reconnected
3) plugs are all firing
4) timinig is on, although i slightly retarded it to stop the rattling
5) tps was 20 clicks

tonight

1) compression test?
2) valve adjustment?
3) change oil again?

whats the best plan of attack, if you only had 2 hours

First I would take another look at everything for unplugged or misrouted hoses, and wires. I would make sure ts2 is pluged in, then I would pull a vacuum on the mps. Then I would ck the tps with an ohm meter. If none of that makes any dif, go to brad Anders site and do a complete system check at the ecu harness pins with a multimeter.

recheck everything

for example... you say the MPS holds vacuum... have you checked that it still holds vacuum since the new rich condition?
(who knows... maybe the diaphram just now broke causing the condition)

I would recheck every single thing
I wouldn't drive it until you solve the problem


my guess is that you have an injector stuck open.
Pull all 4 of the injectors and test them.

brant

If you checked everything and it's all 'right' but the problem persists, then something needs to be rechecked because it's not right.

Joe, I went back and read your build thread looking for clues. Rwilner asked but you did not answer re: which CHT sender? is it compatible w/ the ECU. Also, the MPS; is it compatible. Does the MPS also ohm out correctly. Did you ever dissconnect the TPS to check driveability? I noticed that your injectors were rebuilt then rebuilt again after setting awhile. These are suspicious to me. Have you rechecked your valve clearances. You didn't clamp the air cleaner down over the fuel return line did you? You also mentioned that it idled great when cold and stalled once warmed. Did you ever correct that? If your MPS, ECU and CHT sender are kosher and working and if your running the 9550 cam; roll your idle controll CC all the way. You'll never get it tuned to idle, otherwise. One more thing; did you verify that the mark on the dist is at the correct position? Hang in there.

EDIT: Can you post a pic showing your dist from the top view w or w/o the cap on it.

Thanks

cht sender is correct and mps is correct, all are matched.

have no idea how to check that one.

i did disconnect it and there was very little change at idle, but i did not drive it with the tps disconnected

the injectors were flow checked and tested for leaks, they were rechecked because someone mentioned they can stick closed if sitting for to long.

gonna do this tonight

no, no

dont understand this one, can you explain. roll what

dist is correct position, dont forget the car ran like a champ for 2 days. I am hanging on here, i dont have much of a choice

The 9550 cam makes for a rich idle. I'm running basically the same set up as you. This is normal for the 9550 cam. Back to when it was running; was it tuned to the numbers or had you done some corrective tuning. In other words, tweeking the timing and air mixture to get it running right? Once it's tuned correctly the mixture control will effect your idle. This is reaching but have you checked your trigger points and tested your Pertronix. I don't know if one of the four pick up wires on the Pertronix rotor can fry or be defective with out effecting the other 3 but if that is possible it would show up in a test.

UPDATE



Car is up and running.

1) multiple valves were too tight
I went with the traditional method, and used the grove in the flywheel and the groove on the impellar. Now is perfect. WOW what a difference that made.

2) TIMING

I need help on this one. I cant use the book specs on this 2056 right? It is only a starting refrence point. I need to advance the timing slightly right? And I should do this like 3 degrees at a time and take it on the freeway to see if i hear any ping/rattling then back off and keep it there??

Please advise 2056 gurus, and others.

Right now i am at 27 degrees and i feel that i have a little bog (retarded) running.



I WILL BE BRINGING THIS PUPPY TO HERSHEY AFTER ALL !!!!





Happy 4:20

28 BTDC is the normal setup at 3500rpms.
Is the vac advance hooked up?

yup, its hooked up and workin

i was thinking, if you change the displacment and compression and cam, you would have to adjust the timing to your own custom spec, no?

Something tightened the valves up... That was probably stretched valves from running too hot~

Tight valves are a symptom.

Dont think it was tightening, as the engine never came half way up from the white area on the stock temp gauge. Think it was more of me not doing the valves properly.



to clarify:

no more white smoke out the pipe, just rich running and now i am trying to fine tune for optimal performance. I am certain that 29 degree mark is not giving this engine its full power.

Pull off the manifold reference line from the back of the fuel pressure reg. If fuel leak out, then you've got a ruptured diaphragm in the reg and you're passing fuel down the vent line into the manifold.

According to the Cap'n, this isn't a common failure, but dammit, it happened to me. Makes the car run rich, but in my case, it still held fuel pressure.

WOW,

Nice that you got it running again. Way to stick with it to fix the problem.

Never seen a vacuum line on a djet regulator?

Only when some PO installs a Ljet fuel pressure regulator on a Djet FI system.

IF its boggy I'd look at the mech adv weights inside the dizzy sticking not giving you smooth adv with 30 yr old thick grease.
Usually about 28 degrees adv is the most you can time a type 4 without problems esp if you have the vac adv hooked up. (not the retard hose).

Rich AFR can also effect the way the car runs resulting in a Boggy feeling as the engine struggles with a rich mix..

A few days late here, but congrats. I'm glad you made it to Hershey. Good job.

For those of you that are following my emergency thread(s) I will give you the update. Drove to Hershey 30-40 min pushing it a bit, low engine temps and no lugging. I get to the hotel and the car is loud as a #$%er.

Running and idling low but not so bad. We drive 5 min to the show and I put the car up and let it cool off. Start adjusting the valves. I had them set at .008 & .006 and I had the loudest clackety engine in Hershey. I adjusted the valves to .006 all the way around because of members reccomendations. When I got to intake on #3...




It was soo loose I fit my pinky finger between the swivel foot and the rocker. I am talking is going on here. That was the sound we were all hearing! I adjusted the screw about 8 full turns, almost all the way in, and I got it back to .006. Finished up the last cylinder and fired it up. It was sooooo much smoother and no more noise.



I got the car Home with no problems at all, car still pulls, and needs a lot of tuning but, the question now is:

What the #$% happend to intake #3 ?????


Next step

TRANSLOG GT

you know you need to adjust your valves cold?
(overnight cold)

was the lock nut still locked on the loosened one?
if so its not a good sign

but if the lock nut came loose on its own, it could of vibrated the adjuster loose while unlocked.

Compare the adjuster and the position of the valve to the others. The adjuster can break (not good, but survivable) in which case it would be shorter than the rest. The valve tip may be closer to the head than the others. If so, it's a dropped valve seat. Head comes off to fix that--bad news.

Could be a lifter problem, or a bent pushrod. You have to pull the pushrod to check it and the tube to get the lifter out.

With luck, the adjuster came loose. Failing that, you're looking at various forms of bad news...

--DD

Cold or hot valves ... a finger width is still a finger. Yes the adjuster nut was tight. Yes that is the only adjuster all the way in, all the rest are in a nice line.


Yes, it is not a good sign at all!

Sounds like a dropped valve seat . Don't run it till you can confirm as mentioned above. Valve seat is one thing; P&C's are another.
are you running stock push rods or Chromoly?

stock

I asked because Chromoloy are noisy as hell when set @ .006 & .008. Ask me how I know. Your engine is fairly new so I assume your heads just got re worked, too. If it ends up that it is a dropped seat, take it back to the head shop that did the work. As long as it wasn't abused or overheating they should work with you on this.

Will report back to you guys tommorow, if i hear from Tony. Heads came from HAM Inc and they looked flawless, I could not imagine a dropped seat. This engine runs cooler than any CAR I have ever owned

Like I said, look at where the valve tip (the part the adjuster pushes on) is in relation to other closed valves in that head. Chances are so-so that it's 1/8" to 1/4" closer to the head than the others; if that is the case you have a dropped seat. (BTDT, more than I really care to think about.)

If the tip is the same distance from the head as the rest, then the problem is in the adjuster, the pushrod, the rocker arm (somehow????) the lifter, or the cam.

--DD

AND THE ANSWER IS .....................................

So, as you can see in the pic, the head of the pushrod sheered off at the cam side. It was riding metal to metal with the tip laying next to it as you can see.

Moral of the story:

"What the hell was aluminum pushrods doing in his engine"
Jake Raby



Chromoly pushrods are on the way, and never ever put aluminum pushrods in a Raby 2056 Engine !!!

The answer is???

Well after the phone conversation that was just broadcast all over my facility (by mistake) I think I know what happened. I am down stairs working on reconfiguring the engine dyno now, but tonight when I get home I'll share what happened.

Classic examples here folks.. I'll use this one as a poster child.

Joe,

What type of lifter is in there, and I strongly suggest you pull that lifter out to take a look a the retainer clip, if there is one.

use a strong magnet

It may have been that the specific push rod was not properly seated in the lifter, but if it was me, I would still pull the lifter out to get a better look.

rich

Joe, I'm too lazy to re-read your build thread but if you haven't bought Raby's entire valve train kit, do it. It's worth it to me every time I bust 6000 rpm.

So.. Here we go.
Before I jump into this I want to say thank you for helping me illustrate 3 things:
1- Why we ONLY sell these camshafts with all the matching components, because stock components are for stock applications ONLY.
2- Exactly how "haste makes waste" when trying to rush and make it to an event.
3-That even though we try to remove all the variables by "leading the horse to water" we cannot overcome the ability of someone screwing up and reusing OEM components with our valve train kits.

With that said, I can guarantee that this stock pushrod was not seated in the "cup" of the lifter, ultimately catalyzing the failure of the pushrod and possibly creating collateral damage downstream too. Now, why the hell the installer did not notice that the valve adjustment on that one pushrod was out to lunch compared to the others, I do not know... Other than the fact that the installer was out to lunch and not aware that one of these things was not like the other, obviously unaware of his surroundings..

So, the short story is the installer had the full set of our pushrods and screwed up cutting the first one in the set. Since he was on a timeline trying to make it to a freaking event he did not order just one pushrod, instead he installed one stock one... Then he screwed up the installation of it and didn't get it seated properly, which then lead to the failure of the stock pushrod.

Now, what you probably haven't considered is the load that was placed on the remainder of the valve train down stream. I'd expect the crown of the lifter to be FUBAR or the nose of the cam, or both after this occurrence, especially after the ;lifter danced around when the pushrod broke. Any damage on the cam lobe or lifter crown will accelerate wear and will fail in short order- Been there, done that and you better not assume that its "ok". I'd be willing to bet that you have injured something upstream or downstream in the valve train, because I have seen this occur in the past an even valves can become bent from it. If that pushrod was on the cylinder you were sampling CHT on it could be the reason why the engine was running "so cool", because that cylinder wasn't firing effectively and not building any CHT.

In closing:
We supplied the proper matched components but they were not installed. Someone obviously thought that we "make up" the facts associated with these engines, or they think they are smarter or better than the guys that developed it all (us). The entire reason why we do not and will not sell cams and lifters without the sale of a complete kit is because of THIS EXACT SAME CRAP HAPPENING in the past.

I thought that forcing the consumer to buy the proper components would force them to at least install them and keep this crap from happening. Guess not, so I AM DONE caring and done offering. I hope everyone who ever wanted our 9550 or any other camshaft has already bought it, because after this bullshit I am done selling them.

You can't rush success, but you can damn sure rush failure~

Guess what happens next year?? Hershey... and the year after that and the year after that. Kill yourself to make these events, but don't kill the reputation of my product line and your engine in the process. Rushing before events is the major cause of BS engine and car issues, if the damn car isn't ready the week before the event, don't attend the damn event. Its called a sense of urgency and common freakin sense.