Before I start cutting into the longs and hell hole I was thinking about sand blasting the whole area first to see what I have and then prime it before making the repairs. (eventually I am going to strip the whole tub. just doing it in sections) I already bought a blaster from eastwood. Now I need to get setup for painting so I can prime it immediately after stripping it. I have made a list of the main things I need to buy. I think I got most of it figured out but have questions on the primer and a good paint gun. I have never sprayed paint so any advice is welcome or if there is something i need to add to my list, let me know.

Here is a list of what I think I will need

paint gun
etching primer
fresh air respirator
hood
throw away coveralls
gloves
metal prep

I am sure I will need stuff to mix the paint with. The paint shop guys will help with that.

I am also going to build a chamber to limit the mess from the blasting and over spray in my garage.

I went to the local paint shop and they sell three brands of etching primer, nason, ppg and dupont. They are in order of price. Nason appears to be a low priced dupont brand. It's about half the price. Can I use the cheap stuff or should I stick with the ppg or dupont. Obviously I want to save money but I don't have a problem buying the right stuff if it is worth it and will work better. Actual suggestion items numbers would be welcome.

I was also looking at paint guns. They had a nice 2 gun set from DeVilbiss, one for priming, one for painting, i think it was around $200. They had other guns that were half the price or lower. I think i have read on here that the DeVilbiss guns are the best. (or at least in somebody's opinion they were). Is it worth the extra money or will I get the same results with the cheap gun?

thanks

I know everybody likes post with pictures so here is one.

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I like where this thread is heading. Good luck with the work and the paint. When it comes to tools, I always try to buy a very good quality so that I do not have to buy another.

DuPont vari-prime is good shit. So good it can etch right into your lungs. I noticed your getting a hood but be careful with etching primers. Which brings me to.......why an etching primer? I've used a bunch of it but always on aluminum w/ a dead soft layer that I did not want to remove by sanding. As for the gun, I should defer to Scotty. I've shot with Harbor Freight and DeV guns. I think the magic is with the man painting more than the gun itself. I wish I had one of the newer ones that have liners.

I plan on stripping it to bare metal. Based upon what I have read here you should hit it with etching primer as soon as possible after stripping to prevent the flash rust. That is why I planned on using etching primer.

From another post, Scotty used some high end gun that cost over $600. I forget the name. I think he said the DeVilBiss Finish Line was a nice inexpensive starter gun.

I definitely agree that the man makes the difference. I could buy the best gun and the best primer and I am sure I will still screw it up. I have found that having the right tool is 95% of the job. (maybe not in this case where experience and natural talent is a big factor as well) It is going to be hard enough at first as it is. I don't want to be fighting a piece of crap tool in the process.

When I bought the car the guy had an extra hood. It looks straight but there is some evidence it might have been crunched in a crash at some point so I won't be using it on the car. My plan is to practice on it with both the blaster and the paint gun several times until I get it figured out or to at least a point that looks acceptable.

you can spend a little more money and get either PPG or Spies etch primer. Both are weldable and I can vouch for their effectiveness. Either will run abut 90.00 / qt for the paint and activator. a qt will do a whole 914 if sprayed properly. AFAIK no other etch primer is weldable outside of those 2. I can guarantee that Nason and DuPonts are not.

Yes the Devilbiss finish line is a good all around gun that won't break the bank. It' comes with 3 different tips that will cover anything you need except for a spray poly. That will require it's own gun

http://www.eastwood.com/dvb-finishline-fls...rccode=ga090100

Scotty,

Is there a particular product code for ppg etching primer that is weldable? I think you had said ppg deltron in a previous post. I wasn't sure if that was a specific line or product. when I have gone to the ppg and other manufacture websites they seem to have several different product lines. Just was to make sure I ask for the right stuff.

Thanks

I have another question on the etching primer. If I strip areas on the car and not the whole car as I go around fixing structural/rust issues, if I had applied etching primer to one area a month ago and I am working on an adjacent area and I go to prime it, if there is a little overlap of the etching primer will it mess up the previous coat of primer? The reason I ask is I thought I remember reading something here that if you apply etching primer over paint, which wouldn't make sense, it could eat into the bottom layer and cause it to lift. I was wondering if etching primer over etching primer would cause any issues.

I know the best solution would be to strip the entire car in one shot, prime it then fix the rust areas. In order to strip it properly I would have to put it on a rotisserie. I plan on doing it eventually but I was concerned that the rust in the hell hole was compromising it structurally and putting it on a rotisserie prior to fixing certain areas could cause problems. Maybe I am just being overly cautious. Look at my build thread and tell me if you think I could put it on a rotisserie as is, strip it prime it and then fix it. I would would much rather do it that way instead of a patch work of repairs and prime.

I've posted this here before but I will mow this lawn again. First etch primer was brought about as a patch for a problem with adhesion. When car manufacturers started stamping econo boxes out of HSLA steel the standard refinishing materials no longer worked. The steel was thinner and much harder. In order to achive a machanical bond with HSLA steel you would need the equivalent of a 36 grit scratch. This obviously wouldn't work as this would cut half way through the panel in the thinner steel.

Hence the need for a chemical bond of the substrates. Because of the hotter solvents the old soft coatings couldn't prevent wicking and instant expansion, release and wrinkling of these old soft products.

So, If you are working on a car that has a repaint you will need to strip off all the soft product before applying any new modern substrates or top coats.

Another issue the factories had was when the EPA mandated the use of low VOC's they use a hot self etching sealer to lock a paintable surface to the HSLA steel. The probem came in when they base coat with it's weak low VOC solvent flashed too fast to get a grip on the sealer. We repaints dozens of these cars as the paint pealed off like reptile skin.

My flares have been unpainted for over a year without rusting. I metal prep the area after I work on it and it's parked inside on jackstands.

On a side note I just bought a bunch of PPG paint for my car. The guy at the paint store said he couldn't see a difference in the primer ingredients between the shopline and high dollar stuff. He has a feeling they just relabel the stuff. Not sure about this but he knows more about it than I do. I bought shopline primers to save some cash but went with the concept line color due to the UV protection that he said the shopline doesn't have in the color.

I was just reading on ppg's website about the deltron self etching primer, product code dpx171. It says on the technical data sheet "should not be applied over media blasted steel". So if I sand blast or soda blast the tub I can't use a self etching primer on it? So, what should I apply over media blasted steel?

I don't understand why they say that. I have used it on blasted pieces many times. If you feel uncomfortable with that then Epoxy is the only other real choice.

Isn't there some prep or neutralizing required with media blasted steel, especially after soda blasting that if not done properly results in the paint not adhering correctly? Maybe they are just covering their butts like all corporations in case the steel isn't prepped properly and somebody sprays it over just blasted steel.

Could it have something to do with the how the surface is left as far as the texture after blasting? Maybe too smooth and not enough bite?

I'm still going to use it, if it is cleaned properly after blasting it should be just like spraying it on any other clean steel unless somebody can tell me any different. If you do it and I have seen many other examples here and everywhere else on the web of people doing it, it's probably ok. i hope.

For soda yes there is a bit of prep work. the soda leaves a film that will prevent the painr from adhering. Other types of blasting just need a good washing. I don't use soda for that very reason. I have been told there is now a secial wash that at least one local soda blaster does that gets the film off, but I have no first hand experience with that

I stopped by the paint shop on my way home from work, the plan was to buy the gun a primer and some other supplies. I asked the question about applying etching primer to media blasted steel and they said the same thing that ppg said, don't do it. The reason he gave jived with what Rick said in a previous response. the explanation this guy gave was that when you media blast the surface you rough it up, it is no longer smooth requiring the chemical bond. Roughness will create a mechanical bond for the epoxy primer and etching primer is not necessary. I didn't ask him the question but I will next time, that applying etching primer to the rough surface wouldn't hurt anything assuming his logic.

So, his recommendation was to work on one area, strip, hit it with epoxy, fix it, hit it again with epoxy then move to the next area. Get all the bad areas fixed, then strip all the other areas and spray the rest of the car with epoxy. Then apply all the other sealers and primers, etc. He said to worry about that later and just get it fixed and epoxied. He said the one thing to take into consideration with the epoxy is that if you wait more than three days after spraying it, you have to scuff it up before applying the next coat.

I basically got chased out of the store because they closed at 5 and I asked too many questions and took to long. He told me to come back Saturday morning and he would go over everything with me step by step.

Anyways, is what this guy telling me sound legit?

For the most part yes. My problem is

a: there is nothing wrong with putting etch over the blasted surface.

b: the reason I don;t use Eoxy is that it needs a rough surface to bond to and in the end it is simply a mechanical bond whereas the etch is a chemical bond.

c: if you sand through the edge of eoxy, you can see it lifting at the break. I have actually broken through when sanding it and taken a blow chuck and blown ight on the edge and watched it start to lift on off.

d: On the other hand , a good etch primer will breack through and have a nice featherd edge that won't lift.

I use epoxy on things like suspension, or a car that is NOT getting a complete strip job as the bond between the old paint that I have sanded with 80 grit I then follow it up immediately with a spray poly so I get a chemical bond between the two of them, and the poly gets all of the sanding.

Sounds right to me. I've painted a lot of cars and I only use epoxy primer on bare metal. Etch primer is old-school in my opinion, epoxy is better technology and gives you immediate rust protection. If you have to primer over rust then I'd use a rust converter product (SEM Rust-Mort or similar) followed by epoxy.

A follow-up edit ... use epoxy on a properly sanded panel or the lifting problem described above could happen. I never had that problem since I've run a DA over everything before priming. Wash down with a proper degreaser and don't touch the metal with bare hands.

Here is what I ended up buying

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I went with what the guys at the paint store suggested. I was leaning a little more towards the affordable starting out. May not be the top of the line primer and spray gun but should be ok for a beginner like me working out of my garage. It will at least get me started. Just waiting on my fresh air respirator and then have to makes some mods to my compressor setup to filter out the moisture better for blasting and painting. Hope to be ready to blast and paint in a couple weeks.